GOD'S LAW (10 commandments) ARE FOREVER!

[Original Happy Camper]

So can I ask you. How did you become aware you must observe aset Saturday sabbath?

By studying the word of GOD in the historical hermeneutics.


John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

It does not say 9 of ten.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Have a great Sabbath I am off to Worship the Creator on His HOLY SABBATH DAY.

 

[Another Lazarus]

Doesn't the scripture say "these are a shadow of things to come" ?

They were given during the Hebrew spent their time wondering around with Moses in the wilderness, which in that time was a shadow of things to come in Jesus Christ.

 

[stuart lawrence]

By studying the word of GOD in the historical hermeneutics.





John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

It does not say 9 of ten.

So you are conscious of sin by studying historical hermeneutics. I see.
So if you don't strive to obey all of Jesus commands in the gospels, does that testify to the fact you don't love him?
Just curious

 

[Dkh587]

They were given during the Hebrew spent their time wondering around with Moses in the wilderness, which in that time was a shadow of things to come in Jesus Christ.

You don't disagree with Paul, right?

Paul said they shadow things TO COME - that means they haven't come yet.

Do you agree that according to Paul, the feasts shadow things that haven't come yet?

 

[Bob S]

If we are under the 10 commandments why would Paul have written 2Cor3:7-11? Why would Paul have written that the 10 were (past tense) transitory and now we are under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I do not understand why Sabbath thumpers are so adamant in putting Christians back under laws that were only for Israel and abrogated at Calvary. Jesus ambassador, Paul has over and over written that man is not under the laws that were given to only Israel. Why would Paul have written in Gal 3:19 that the law was until Christ and why is there no instructions in all of the New Testament to teach Gentiles how to observe a day that has no meaning to Christians? If the Sabbath is so important why, in the book of Acts, didn't the council include that "most important" command? The SDA prophet wrote that there is a "halo" around the fourth commandment. I guess those that follow her Sabbath guidance in stead of scripture are satisfied that she was telling the truth for at least once.

So many questions and no one comes up to the plate with any reasonable answers. Ask a hundred different Sabbath triers how to "keep" the Sabbath and get one hundred different answers.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hello Soyeong, so nice to meet you here friend.

I have added some comments below to your post. However your post was very large so to make things easier I might organise my reply into a series of smaller posts for ease of reading. Ok let’s start with the first section of your post # 64.

LoveGodsWord said: Hi All,
Just posting this here because there seems to be some confusion by some about God's Law (10 commandments) and there role in the Old Cove nant, New Covenant and the judgement to come. Hope this is helpful to those that love God's Word. God's Law (10 commandments). While Christ's death ended the authority of the ceremonial law (laws of Moses), it established the Ten Commandments. Christ took away the curse of the law, thereby liberating believers from its condemnation. His doing so, however, did not mean that the law was abolished, giving us liberty to violate its principles. The abundant testimony of Scripture regarding the perpetuity of the law, refutes such a view.

Hello, Christ's death had nothing to do with ending any laws.

Actually Christ death has everything to do with ending many of the ceremonial laws that pointed to a lot of the plan of salvation. This is what Colossians 2:14 is referring to when it says; “Blotting out (G1813; ἐξαλείφω; exaleiphō; ex-al-i'-fo; means to obliterate; erase; wipe away) the handwriting of ordinances which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way nailing it to the cross.”

What is the handwriting of ordinances that are to be erased and nailed to the cross?

The Greek words used here is handwriting G5498 χειρόγραφον; cheirographon; which means; hand written legal document which is combined with ordinance G1378 δόγμα dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; which means; civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law: - decree;

The Greek meaning of handwriting of ordinances in V14 is a hand written legal document or book of civil, ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws. These are the laws referred to in verse 14 that have been erased and are nailed to the cross.

Why were these ceremonial laws pointing to Jesus nailed to the cross?

Colossians 2:17; “Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”

God’s Law (10 commandments and the ceremonial laws of Moses had completely different roles in the Old Covenant.

(1) God’s Law (10 commandments) pointed out what sin was and the penalty of sin which is death. It was never a cure for sin in the Old Testament as well as in the New. It only gives a knowledge of what sin is and righteousness (right doing) (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4; Rom 6:23; Ps 119:172).

(2) The laws of Moses was the second set of laws and included all the civil, ceremonial, and ecclesiastical laws. These laws could not tell you what sin was this was the job of God’s Law, however the laws of Moses were the prescriptive cure for sin in the Old Covenant. These laws included all the Levitical and ceremonial laws, sacrificial burnt offerings for sin, annual festivals and earthly sanctuary services for sin. These laws were the cure for sin so the sinner could be made right with God.

Many of the ceremonial laws of Moses where all prophetic in nature, teaching the plan of salvation which pointing to Jesus as the true lamb of God and our great high priest and His Work on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary. (Leviticus 1; 3-12; 14-17; 22-23; Number 6-8; 15; 28-29; Deut 12; 33; Ex 25:8; John 1:29; 36; Rev 5:6; 1Cor 5:6-7; Heb 8:2-13; 9:1-28).

It was these ceremonial laws which included all the Levitical, ceremonial laws which included the animal sacrifices as well as many of the annual festivals which pointed to Jesus our Passover lamb, circumcision, many of the annual Jewish festivals along with our sins that where nailed to the cross because they all pointed to Jesus. (John 1:19, 1 Corinthians 5:6-7; Romans 2:28-29)

If you do not believe these laws have been nailed to the cross and pointed to Jesus as a Shadow you would be obliged by the ceremonial laws of Moses to do animal sacrificed for the forgiveness of sin. Do you now sacrifice animals for your forgiveness? If you do not then you must concede your statement cannot be true and is not biblical.

In 1 Peter 1:13-16, we are told to have a holy conduct for God is holy, which is a reference to Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to have a holy conduct, also known as ceremonial laws.

1 Peter 1:13-16 is not a reference that we have to practice the ceremonial laws of Moses as these were nailed to the cross as shown above. 1 Peter 1:13-16 is a reference to Holiness. Any reference Leviticus is in relation to being forgiven and cleansed from sin by Jesus our true Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world (John 1:29). Old Testament references are to both (1.) God’s Law (10 commandments) that point out sin and (2). The ceremonial laws which pointed to the forgiveness and cleansing from sin. 1 Peter 1:13-16 is the fulfilment of these in Jesus. This is further references in 1 Peter 1: 17-23 that you left out which reads…

1 Peter 1:17-23,
17, And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judges according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: 18, Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19, But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20, Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22, seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23, Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which lives and abides for ever.

Holiness does not come through the ceremonial laws of the Old Covenant. These pointed to Jesus. Salvation from sin is Holiness and this only comes from Jesus through faith in His promises.

2 Corinthians 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Romans 6:22
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Ephesians 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

You may need to rethink your interpretation of the scripture 1 Peter 1:13-16 that holiness comes from the ceremonial laws of Moses. The ceremonial laws of Moses were a shadow of the plan of salvation pointing to Jesus his new ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary and the New Covenant (Hebrews 8; 9; 10; 1 Corinthians 5:6-7; John 1:29)

Hope this is helpful

In Christ Always!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

If the way to act in accordance with God's holiness changed with the death of Christ, then God's holiness also changed, but God's holiness is eternal and does not change.

Correct that is why God’s Law (10 commandments) are the standard in the Old and New Covenants (Stone and Heart) and the judgement to come. The requirement for holiness has not changed. The 10 commandments are the standard of Holiness and a requirement in both the Old and New Covenants and the standard of the judgement to come (James 2:8-12).

Crosses were never uses as a means of disposing of outdated laws, but rather what was written on crosses were the charges against the person being crucified (Matthew 27:37), which fits perfectly with our transgressions against God's Law being nailed to Christ's cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our our sins, but does not fit at all with Christ dying to set us free from need to obey what God has commanded. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Christ gave himself to redeem from the Law, but to redeem us from all Lawlessness. According to Deuteronomy 30:15-20, obedience to the law brings life and a blessing, while disobedience to the law brings death and a curse, so by being set free from the curse of the law we have been set free from living in disobedience to it so that we might be free to live for God in obedience to His Law. The Law minus its condemnation remains a set of holy, righteous, and good instructions for how to walk in God's ways.

Good! Do not disagree and the same is also argued in Posts 1-4 of this OP. So what is your point as this is what is highlighted in posts 1-4 of the OP?

Soyeong said: It is inconsistent to say that believers are called to holy living while saying that God's instructions for how to do that were ended at the cross.

Who is saying God’s Law (10 commandments) ended at the cross? Not me. It was the ceremonial laws of Moses pointing to the plan of salvation in Jesus and our sins that were nailed to the cross (Col 2:14-17). For in depth discussion see the thread COL 2:14-17 THE REAL TRUTH! PARTS 1-4 (linked)
I am not sure what you are saying or the point you are making so far as I generally agree with what you have posted here unless you are implying you need to keep the ceremonial laws of Moses (e.g. animal sacrifices etc)?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

God never required anyone to obey His Law in order to become saved, but rather the one and only way to become saved has only ever been by grace through faith, and by the same grace through the same faith we are required to be careful to obey all of God's commands.

Agree Salvation is only by faith in God’s Word this has already been stated in the OP in posts 1 and 2 and in other places in this thread for example post 62 above. So I am not sure of your point here either. However, you make a mistake if you believe you are required to be careful to obey all of God’s commands. Fact is we cannot obey God in our own strength because we are all sinners in need of a Saviour but the Good news of the Gospel is that Jesus will save us from our sins as you have faith and believe in His Word. He will give you power in our lives so we can become a partaker of the divine nature so we can walk in Love (2 Peter 1:4). It is only Love that fulfills God’s Law in us as we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4). Without Jesus we are nothing and all we can do is sin (John 15:3-10)

According to Romans 4:1-8, Abraham and David were justified by faith, so this is how everyone in the OT was able to become justified, and God had no need to provide an alternative and unobtainable means of becoming justified when a perfectly good means of justification by faith was already in place. In Romans 7:21-25, Paul said that he delighted in obeying the Mosaic Law and that he served it with his mind, but contrasted that with the law of sin that held him captive and that he served with his flesh. This is a summary of what he said previously, so it is the law of sin that came about to increases trespasses (5:20), that stirs up sinful passions to bear fruit unto death (7:5), that held us captive (7:6), that gives sin its power (7:8), that deceived Paul through the commandment and killed him (7:11), and that caused him not to do the good that he wanted to do, while God's Law is not sin, but reveals what sin is (7:7), is holy, righteous, and good (7:12), is the good that Paul did not blame for bringing death to him (7:13), and is the good that Paul desired to do (7:13-20). In short, the law of sin is the law where sin had dominion over Paul. Romans 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. Paul specifies that the law we are not under is one where sin had dominion over him, which does not at all fit his description of God's holy, righteous, and good Law, but perfectly fits his description of the law of sin, so we are not under the law of sin when we are under grace.

I agree with the above and do not know what your point is as I have not said anything different. I think maybe you are confused however of the difference between the ceremonial laws of Moses that where a Shadow of things to come which are temporary and God’s Holy Laws (10 commandments) which are forever. It is the latter that points out sin (Ecc 3:14; 1 John 3:4; Rom 3:20; Rom 7:7; James 2:8-10-12)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

In Psalms 119:29, David asked God to show His grace to him by teaching him to obey His Law, so if we are under grace, then we are under the Mosaic Law. This is confirmed in Titus 2:11-14, where it describes our salvation as grace training us to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to refrain from doing what is ungodly and sinful, which is an accurate description of what the Mosaic Law was given to instruct how to do.

For the reasons already outline the ceremonial laws of Moses were a shadow of things to come pointing to Jesus that is why we no longer need to do animal sacrifices in order to gain forgiveness when we sin. These all pointed to Jesus as our sacrifice for the sins of the world and his new ministration as our great high priest and intercessor in the Heavenly Sanctuary (see all Hebrews chapters 8; 9; 10). You will also notice at the death of Jesus the temple curtain was rent in two symbolizing the end of the ceremonial laws and the earthly Sanctuary services (Col 2:14; 1Cor 5:6-7; Roman 2:28-29; Matt 27:50-51). God’s Law however is forever as told in His Word and is a part of the Old and New Covenant. It does not save us but it points out sin and is the standard of righteousness which can only be fulfilled in us through Love as we have faith in our heavenly farther (Ecc 3:14, Ex 20:1-17; Heb 8:10-12; Rom 13:9-10; James 2:8-12).

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: Christ," Paul added, "is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes" (Rom. 10:4). Everyone, then, who believes in Christ realizes that He is the end of the law as a way of obtaining righteousness. In ourselves we are sinners, but in Jesus Christ we are righteous through His imputed righteousness.24

Soyeong said: Romans 10:4 Christ is the goal of the Law, which leads to righteousness for all who have faith in God. It makes no sense to translate "telos" as ending the law for righteousness when the Law was never given for righteousness in the first place. In Romans 9:30 - Romans 10:10, Israel did not fail to obtain righteousness because they did what God told them to and God gave them faulty instructions, but because they misunderstood the purpose of the law and thought that obeying it was about establishing their own righteousness. They had a zeal for God, but it wasn't based on knowledge because they didn't submit to God's righteousness. Rather, the purpose of obeying the Law is to grow in a relationship with Christ for righteousness for everyone who has faith. Our faith says that God's Law is not too difficult, but that it is near us, it is in our mouth, and in our heart, and this is what it means to submit to Christ as Lord. In Philippians 3:8, Paul counted it as rubbish to obey the Law without focusing on growing in a relationship with Christ because that was missing the entire point.

Yep do not disagree with you . However this is talking about God’s Law (10 commandments) not the ceremonial laws of Moses which were written in book (Col 2:14). It is the 10 commandments that are the standard of all righteousness. Not the ceremonial laws of Moses which were shadows of things to come that pointed to Jesus. The context of Romans 10 is about people seeking their own righteousness from trying to obey God’s Law not by faith in God’s Word (Rom 10:1-10). Without Jesus all our righteousness in trying to keep God’s Law (10 commandments) is as filthy rags (Isa 64:6). This is what Paul was referring to in Romans 7. God’s Law shows us that we are sinners in need of a Saviour (1 John 3:4; Rom 3:20; 7:7). God’s Law is the standard of righteousness that brings us to Christ that we might be justified by faith so that through the operation of God in our hearts we may love him who first loved us so that we can follow Him. Love is the fulfilling of the Law in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit as we abide in him by faith. (Ps 119:172; Rom 5:1; Col 2:12; 1John 4:19; Rom 13:9-10; Rom 8:4; Eph 2:8)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: Yet being under grace does not give believers the license to "continue in sin that grace may abound" (Rom. 6:1). Rather, grace supplies the power that makes obedience and victory over sin possible. "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit" (Rom. 8:1).

Soyeong said: Christ's death magnified the law, upholding its universal authority. If the Decalogue could have been changed, He would not have had to die. But because this law is absolute and immutable, a death was required to pay the penalty it imposed. This requirement Christ fully satisfied by His death on the cross, making eternal life available to all who accept His magnificent sacrifice. God's Law was given to reveal what sin is, which much more than just 10 commands is and God's grace does not permit us to sin by breaking those other commands, but rather we can have victory over sin by living in obedience to those commands. According to Psalms 119:160, all of God's righteous laws are eternal, not just ten of them.

Ok you seem to be changing between the ceremonial laws of Moses and now you’re talking about the Decalogue which by definition is the God’s Law (10 commandments). So if you are talking about the 10 commandments now I agree with you and not sure of the point you are making as I have never said the role of the 10 commandments have changed. In fact I have clearly stated in the first 4 posts of the OP that their role is the same as they have ever been, to point out sin and lead the sinner to Jesus. Keep in mind my reference and meaning to the ceremonial laws are in reference only to those that were fulfilled in Christ and not other commands God wants us to follow.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: Obedience to the Law People cannot earn salvation by their good works. Obedience is the fruitage of salvation in Christ. Through His amazing grace, especially displayed at the cross, God has liberated His people from the penalty and curse of sin. Though they were sinners, Christ gave His life to provide them with the gift of eternal life. God's abundant love awakens in the repentant sinner a response that manifests itself in loving obedience through the power of the grace so abundantly bestowed. Believers who understand that Christ values the law and who understand the blessings of obedience will be strongly motivated to live Christlike lives.

Soyeong said: According to Matthew 11:28-30 and Jeremiah 6:16-19, the Mosaic Law is the good way where we will find rest for our souls, but if obeying the Law were about earning our salvation, then it would rob our souls of the rest that it was intended to give because we would never know if what we had done was good enough. So trying to become saved by obeying Law has always been a fundamental misunderstanding of the Law and of God's character because it makes it out to be that what God primarily wanted for us was our obedience when since the beginning with God walking with Adam in the Garden what God has primarily wanted from us is an intimate relationship with Him, and the Law is His instructions for how to do that. It was never about what we need to do in order to become saved, but about what we are therefore required to do by grace through faith because we have been saved. We have been saved by grace through faith, not be doing good works, but for the purpose of doing good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). They way to live Christ-like lives is to do what is holy, righteous, and good like he did by walking in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and we are told that those who are in Christ ought to walk in the same way he did (1 John 2:3-6) and to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22).

I generally agree with the above . I think you are confused as I have never said we need to obey God’s Law (10 commandments) to be saved. I am not sure what your point is in the above. I think your confusion may be in the term ceremonial laws of Moses and what they mean as you change from the Decalogue to the Mosaic laws quite frequently. They are both different and have a different role.

(1) God’s Law point out what sin is and the punishment of sin which is death (Rom 3:20; 1 John 3:4). It was never a cure for sin. But it was the work of God which is forever and the foundation of the Old Covenant, the New Covenant and the Judgement to come. (Ex 32:16; Ex 31:18; 31:18; Ex 20:1-22; Deut 10:5; Rom 3:20; 1 John 3:4; Rom 6:23; Heb 7:19; Ecc 12:13-14, James 2:8-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31; Ps 111:7-8; Rev 12:17; 14:12; 22:14; 1 John 3:5-8; 1 John 2:3-4; Ecc 3:14)

(2) The ceremonial laws of Moses however were the prescriptive cure for sin with all the Levitical and ceremonial laws, burnt offerings, annual feast days foretelling the plan of salvation which were connected to Feast days with New Moon sabbaths, food and drink offerings and other Holy days. These where all types pointing to Jesus and the plan of salvation and were nailed to the cross with our sins because they are now fulfilled. Now that Jesus is here we are under the New Covenant. Jesus is our Passover and the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world and as no longer need to provide burnt offerings when we sin to seek forgiveness. (Lev 1:1-13; Lev 23:1-44; Num 28:1-31; 29:1-40; Deut 24:10-11; Ex 24:3; Deut 31:24-26; Col 2:16-16; Heb 10:1; Eph 2:14-15; Lev 4; 5; 6; Heb 4:14; 9;10; John 1:29; Hebrew Chapters 8; 9; 10; 2Cor 5:6-7)

It is the ceremonial laws of Moses along with our sins that are nailed to the cross (Col 2:14) not the 10 commandments (God's Law)

Jam 2:8-12
8, If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

This includes God’s 7th Day Sabbath.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: Christ and the Law. Christ had the highest regard for the ten-commandment law. As the great "I AM," He Himself proclaimed the Father's moral law from Sinai (John 8:58; Ex. 3:14; see chapter 4 of this book). Part of His mission on earth was to "magnify the law and make it honorable" (Isa. 42:21). A passage from the Psalms that the New Testament applies to Christ makes clear His attitude toward the law: "I delight to do Your will, O my God, and Your law is within my heart" (Ps. 40:8; cf. Heb. 10:5, 7). His gospel produced a faith that firmly upheld the validity of the Decalogue. Said Paul, Do we "make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law" (Rom. 3:31). So Christ came not only to redeem man but to vindicate the authority and holiness of the law of God, presenting its magnificence and glory before the people and giving them an example of how to relate to it. As His followers, Christians are called to magnify God's law in their lives. Having lived a life of loving obedience Himself, Christ stressed that His followers ought to be commandment keepers. When asked about the requirements for eternal life, He replied, "If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matt. 19:17). He also warned against the violation of this principle, "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." Lawbreakers will be refused entrance (Matt. 7:21-23).
Soyeong said: None of these verses specify that they are talking about just the the Ten Commandments. There is no grounds to say that only ten of God's commands in His will while all of His other commands are not in accordance with His will. Morality is based off of God's character and all of God's laws are there to instruct us how to act in God's image and to reflect His character to the world, so all of God's laws are moral laws and it is always immoral to disobey any of God's commands. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so again all of God's laws are inherently moral laws, not just ten of them. David said that he delighted in God's Law a number of times throughout the Psalms, which Paul also did (Romans 7:22), and again there is nothing that specifies that they delighted in only obeying ten of God's commands.

Are you making an argument that does not exist? Have I ever said that we should not follow all of God’s Word? Man is to live by every word the proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matt 4:4). God Word says in times of ignorance God winked at but when a knowledge of the truth comes expects all man to repent and follow His Word. Also if you know what you should do to follow God and you do not do it then it is also sin (Acts 17:30; James 4:17). Sin is not believing God’s Word (Rom 14:23). Sin is breaking any of

God’s 10 commandments it is very clear throughout all of God’s Word in both the Old and New Testament writings. From Genesis to Revelations the judgements of God have only ever come to mankind because of sin. As it was in the days of Noah and Sodom so shall the coming of the son of man be… It is sin not to believe and obey God. If God asks us to do something and we do not do it then that is sin.

For example; 1 John 3:4 where is says “Whosoever committeth sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law” is referring to God’s 10 commandments. The same chapter of 1 John 3 makes it clear that we are talking about God’s 10 commandments when it references righteousness (v 7) and one of God’s commandments about murder (v 12; v15). James 2:8-12 clearly agrees with this and refers God’s Law as being the Royal Law of freedom (v8; 12) which we all will be judged by in the judgement (v 12)

James 2:8-12
8, If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty (Please read post # 3 of the OP for more scripture).

The origin of all sin comes by not obeying God. If God asks us to do something and we do not do it then it is sin. Our duty to love God and our neighbour is defined in God’s Law. This is the standard of righteousness and the whole duty of man (Ps 119:172; Ecc 12:13). Love is the fulfilling of God’s Law and the only way it can be obeyed (Rom 13:9-10). That is why Jesus says verily verily I say unto you unless a man is born again he cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. (John 3:3) This is the new Covenant (Heb 8:10-12; Eze 36:26-27) and we can only receive it as we have faith in God’s promises (2 Pet 1:4). We are to live by all of God’s Word if we do not then it is sin and we will be judged by it (John 12:47-48).

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Soyeong said: Pleroo: to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be. In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus said he came to fulfill the law, not to abolish it, he said not the least part would disappear from the Law until heaven and earth passed away and all is accomplished (both of which have not happened yet), and he warned that those who relax the least of the commands and teach others to do the same would be called least in the Kingdom, while those who obeyed them and taught others to do the same would be called great in the Kingdom. He then proceed to fulfill the law six times throughout the rest of the chapter by causing God's will as made known in the Law to be obeyed as it should be, and this included more than just the Ten Commandments. By only teaching obedience to ten commands, you are relaxing far more than he least of the laws. In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus said that all of the Law and the Prophets hang on the greatest two commands, so there is again no room whatsoever to say that he was only speaking about ten commands. They are all God's instructions for how to love Him and our neighbor, and there is nothing brand new about the command to love our neighbor (Leviticus 19:18), but what is new is the quality of the example by which we are to love our neighbor.

Yep do not disagree with you . However your reference to Matt 5:17-19 is talking about God’s Law (10 commandments) not the ceremonial laws of Moses as these ended at the cross (Col 2:14). You reference Matt 5:17-19 but you leave out the context Jesus is referring to in verses 20-21 which is talking about exceeding the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees then Jesus starts quoting the 10 commandments in verse 21 to 27. So I am not sure what your point is.

LoveGodsWord said: Salvation is not in keeping God's Law (10 commandments) it is by faith alone in God's Word to do what it says it will do. If you believe God's Word he will write his Law of Love in our hearts and it is Love which is the fulfilling of the Law in us who walk not after the Flesh but after the Spirit (Rom 8:4).
Soyeong said: Jesus summarized all of the Law and the Prophets as being about how to love God and our neighbor, so love fulfills the law because it is obeying the law as it should be obeyed. And if we correctly understand the principle of love, then it will lead us to do things that are examples of that principle.

I generally agree with what you have written above . It is not really about understanding the principles of God’s Love however, because we cannot (Isa 55:8-9). It is more about seeking Jesus for the experience of salvation. It is about a change of heart that only God can give to the sinner that knows His need of a Saviour.

It is the Law of God that is the schoolmaster that teaches us that all our righteousness is as filthy rags and the wages of sin is death (Gal 3:24; Isa 64:6; Rom 6:23). It is only as we come as we are as sinners in need of a Saviour that Jesus reveals himself to us. Only at the cross as we lay hold of promises of God’s Word alone and believe God’s Word and the gift that God has freely given to all that will take it we see for the very first time we he loved us. He changes us to love.

This the operation of God in us and is how we are to walk because it is only by love that God fulfills his Laws in us to love another.

 

[Bob S]

Actually everyone, it was the 10 commandments that were against the Israelites. Paul called them the ministry that brought death

 

[Original Happy Camper]

So you are conscious of sin by studying historical hermeneutics. I see.
So if you don't strive to obey all of Jesus commands in the gospels, does that testify to the fact you don't love him?
Just curious

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

It does not say 9 of ten.

Jesus said the above and I believe him.

Is the opposite also true If you do not keep my commandments you do not love me. ???

 

[stuart lawrence]

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

It does not say 9 of ten.

Jesus said the above and I believe him.

Is the opposite also true If you do not keep my commandments you do not love me. ???

You didn't answer my question

 

[stuart lawrence]

Correct that is why God’s Law (10 commandments) are the standard in the Old and New Covenants (Stone and Heart) and the judgement to come. The requirement for holiness has not changed. The 10 commandments are the standard of Holiness and a requirement in both the Old and New Covenants and the standard of the judgement to come (James 2:8-12).


Good! Do not disagree and the same is also argued in Posts 1-4 of this OP. So what is your point as this is what is highlighted in posts 1-4 of the OP?


Who is saying God’s Law (10 commandments) ended at the cross? Not me. It was the ceremonial laws of Moses pointing to the plan of salvation in Jesus and our sins that were nailed to the cross (Col 2:14-17). For in depth discussion see the thread COL 2:14-17 THE REAL TRUTH! PARTS 1-4 (linked)
I am not sure what you are saying or the point you are making so far as I generally agree with what you have posted here unless you are implying you need to keep the ceremonial laws of Moses (e.g. animal sacrifices etc)?

The standard if you like under the NC is to a higher degree than the standard of what the TC literally states:

You have heard that it was said: Do not commit adultery. But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart
Matt5:27

You have heard that it was said to the people long ago: Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgement. But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgement. Again anyone who says to his brother Raca is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says: you fool will be in danger of the fires of hell
Matt5:21&22

The standard if anything is the beatitudes, and you cannot live up to that standard, I have never met anyone who has.
Jesus never once said the words:
Obey the TC. It's really struck me lately that people who Keep repeating:
You must obey the TC
Know nothing of spirit filled Christianity, and at heart want to follow the OC, not the new one

 

[stuart lawrence]

Jesus and the writers of the Epistles spoke much of holy living and sin, but never once were the words TC stated in this regard.
It is so sad that so many go to church today and cannot understand why those specific words are not used concerning righteous living in the NT.