stuart lawrence
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Absolutely correct BTW.
Love fulfills the law. Doesn't change the fact God put the desire in our hearts to live as he wants us to, by placing his laws in our hearts
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GOD'S LAW (10 commandments) ARE FOREVER!
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Love fulfills the law. Doesn't change the fact God put the desire in our hearts to live as he wants us to, by placing his laws in our hearts
stuart lawrence
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You see Bob, it is easy to prove which one of us is correct, but you obviously keep ignoring posts posted concerning it. So I will once more explain in this thread
If a Christian commits adultery, are they specifically conscious they sin because they commit the act of adultery, or are they only conscious they sin by failing to love as they should?
Through the law we become conscious of sin rom3:20
If a Christian stole something, would they specifically be conscious they sinned because they committed theft, or would they only be conscious they sinned by failing to love as they should?
Through the law we become conscious of sin rom3:20
If a Christian bore false witness, would they specifically be conscious they sinned because they bore false witness, or would they only be conscious they sinned by failing to love as they should?
Through the law we become conscious of sin rom3:20
If a Christian took the Lord's name in vain, would they specifically be conscious they sinned because they took the Lord's name in vain, or would they only be conscious they sinned by failing to love as they should?
Through the law we become conscious of sin
Rom3:20
If a Christian coveted, would they specifically be conscious they sinned because they coveted, or would they only be conscious they sinned by failing to love as they should?
Through the law we become conscious of sin rom3:20
CASE PROVED!!
However.....
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stuart lawrence
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I will write my laws in their minds and place them on their hearts
THEN HE ADDS
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember NO MORE
I really don't know what's so hard to understand about the above.
God puts his laws in your mind, so you instinctively know what that law is, and he places the law in your heart so you want to live as God desires you to.
You have been forever changed, it is IMMENSE. No longer can you happily sin as much as you like without conscience. IMPOSSIBLE.
But at times, every Christian allows themselves to follow after the flesh rather than the Spirit for none are perfect in the flesh, they don't allways act in accordance with what their born again heart desires. When the truly born again Christian does so, their conscience is seered, they have no rest, and no peace until they come before their Father in heaven and repent/ say sorry for their folly. The law in your heart cuts out any possibility of a licence to sin under grace.
Because it is placed there, because it changes you as described, your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered NO MORE.
So telling people they can only be in a saved state if they observe the law is to ignore the words which are the very foundation upon which the NC stands.
And to state the entire law got abolished is to ignore the words upon which the very foundation of the NC stands.
Righteousness of observing the law/ the ministry of death and cobdemnation got abolished, not the words contained in the heart of the moral law!
You don't look to that law and strive to obey it to be in a saved state, that isn't what it's there for! It cannot condemn you, for your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered NO MORE. You have been freed from the law of sin and death
You don't look to the law within you, you look to Christ and trust him, through the Spirit to bring you to live an ever holier life, in accordance with what your born again heart desires. The more you do this, the more the fruits of the Spirit grow in your life( gal5:22) that fruit will not bring you into conflict with any of Gods good and holy laws for that fruit is the embodiment of how God wants you to live.
Hence:
Against such things there is no law gal5:23
Head theology is the barrier of course. You can have your head so crammed full of theology, Bible verses, there isn't any room left for the Holy Spirit to work with!
THEN HE ADDS
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember NO MORE
I really don't know what's so hard to understand about the above.
God puts his laws in your mind, so you instinctively know what that law is, and he places the law in your heart so you want to live as God desires you to.
You have been forever changed, it is IMMENSE. No longer can you happily sin as much as you like without conscience. IMPOSSIBLE.
But at times, every Christian allows themselves to follow after the flesh rather than the Spirit for none are perfect in the flesh, they don't allways act in accordance with what their born again heart desires. When the truly born again Christian does so, their conscience is seered, they have no rest, and no peace until they come before their Father in heaven and repent/ say sorry for their folly. The law in your heart cuts out any possibility of a licence to sin under grace.
Because it is placed there, because it changes you as described, your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered NO MORE.
So telling people they can only be in a saved state if they observe the law is to ignore the words which are the very foundation upon which the NC stands.
And to state the entire law got abolished is to ignore the words upon which the very foundation of the NC stands.
Righteousness of observing the law/ the ministry of death and cobdemnation got abolished, not the words contained in the heart of the moral law!
You don't look to that law and strive to obey it to be in a saved state, that isn't what it's there for! It cannot condemn you, for your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered NO MORE. You have been freed from the law of sin and death
You don't look to the law within you, you look to Christ and trust him, through the Spirit to bring you to live an ever holier life, in accordance with what your born again heart desires. The more you do this, the more the fruits of the Spirit grow in your life( gal5:22) that fruit will not bring you into conflict with any of Gods good and holy laws for that fruit is the embodiment of how God wants you to live.
Hence:
Against such things there is no law gal5:23
Head theology is the barrier of course. You can have your head so crammed full of theology, Bible verses, there isn't any room left for the Holy Spirit to work with!
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stuart lawrence
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The very foundation of the NC isn't the TC. The writer of hebrews sums up the very foundation upon which the NC stands:
This is the covenant I will make with them after that time says the Lord
I will write my laws in their minds and place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
Heb10:16&17
How can the basis of the christians judgement be observing the law, when their sins/ transgressions of the law will be remembered NO MORE
This is the covenant I will make with them after that time says the Lord
I will write my laws in their minds and place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
Heb10:16&17
How can the basis of the christians judgement be observing the law, when their sins/ transgressions of the law will be remembered NO MORE
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stuart lawrence
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But as Jesus said:
Many after drinking the old wine don't want the new, for they say: The old is better
Luke5:39
Many after drinking the old wine don't want the new, for they say: The old is better
Luke5:39
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God's laws exist. What dos not exist is the jurisdiction of the covenant issued at Mt Sinai. While those laws are God's laws they were replaced as Jeremiah said they would be. Jesus testified the covenant has changed. No where does Jesus promote the law as a requirement.
bugkiller
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The laws you talk about are the laws issued to Israel alone. That covenant was replaced with a new covenant. The covenant issued at Mt Sinai was not moved to the heart as Jer 31:31-33 indicates. Verse 32 clearly states this new covenant will not be like the previous covenant (the 10 Cs). Moses clearly states in Deut 4:13 the 10 Cs are the covenant. Your argument is that covenant (the 10 Cs) are now moved from stone to the heart. That means there is no change in contents. Movement makes no difference. If movement could make a difference in content I would have a new pick-up, My farm tractor would be a bulldozer.
The last 5 items were always sin before the law. The law given to Israel in a formal written form makes no difference. Those laws were given because of sin, they did not create sin -
13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Rom 5
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Gal 3
The above verse also puts a time limit restriction on the law. The time restriction in the verse means the jurisdiction (power) of the law has passed. Even the Gospel of Luke says the law is over -
16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. LK 16
It is not just Paul saying the law is a has been when it come to authority. No one here has ever suggested, hinted or implied the law has been annihilated. No one here except the pro law contingency has suggested that. No one here except the pro law contingency has suggested others are promoting the right or privilege to sin.
You can say I am being juvenile if you like. The idea the law is authoritative in the Christians life is not taught in the NT. Jesus did not teach nor require the law be kept.
bugkiller
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Then the Holy Spirit is of no value since the law is doing His job. The Holy Spirit has never quoted or referred me to the law when I sin. When I became a Christian I had no idea about OT and NT or even the Bible. I accepted Jesus as my Savior because the Sunday school teacher ask me to as a child the first Sunday my parents started to attend church. I did not ask why.
They would be spoken to by the Holy Spirit, Who does not lead us to the law. A religious authority will though.
They would be spoken to by the Holy Spirit, Who does not lead us to the law. A religious authority will though.
They would be spoken to by the Holy Spirit, Who does not lead us to the law. A religious authority will though.
They would be spoken to by the Holy Spirit, Who does not lead us to the law. A religious authority will though.
Nope and no however to it.
bugkiller
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Neither do I. The problem is the rejection of immediate statements in conjunction with your out of context meaning changing God's Word whether by Jeremiah or Paul to a lie. The enemy of my soul did this very ting to Eve and tried it with Jesus.
No sin is till pleasurable. Heb 11:25
The law does not change the heart, the Holy Spirit does.
The foundation of the NT is Jesus, not the law.
You can keep your partial law if you want. I was told by the Holy Spirit it was not my covenant. I realize you can reject that testimony if you like. That simply will not refute it. God's Word back that statement up.
The ministry of death was and is written on stone tablets. Those stone tablets do not make a distinction about moral and ceremonial law. Both are included on those stone tablets. There is nothing indicating part of the law as you say was moved to the heart.
It is statements like this why I spent yesterday laughing so hard I would have gotten into trouble by posting.
You are all over the place with your inconsistencies. No wonder why Christianity is a laughing stock.
This applies to you very well.
bugkiller
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JN 6:27 and II Cor 1:21, 22 say God sealed us. Eph 1:13 says that seal is the Holy Spirit.
bugkiller
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Jeremiah does not specify. But the law Abraham kept was not the law issued at mt Sinai according to Moses in Deut 5:3.
bugkiller
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No honey do list for me, but i did not think it was hot enough so I made more. Had a weenie roast (burned brush) today.
bugkiller
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Nothing you have posted indicates any part of the 10 Cs are written on anyone's heart.
bugkiller
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stuart lawrence
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People laugh at what they do not understand.
An SDA member asked me if we must obey the TC so we may enter heaven. When I replied no, they shook their head, laughing hysterically. As people who are at the opposite end of the spectrum laugh at what they do not understand also.
And yet, people who laugh at the truth they don't understand, think they know so much, they can be guiding lights for others.
And so, they come on the internet, and engage in theological debate, believing themselves able ministers of the word. They are here to give others the benefit of their spiritual knowledge they believe has been divinely revealed to them.
One wonders, why they are on the internet doing this, if they have the knowledge they think they have.
Possibly, if someone read the Bible when young, then were part of a bible quiz team, and the minister encouraged them by telling them they could answer questions even he couldnt answer, this may have lead to an over exaggerated belief as to the knowledge they think they have.
Possibly
An SDA member asked me if we must obey the TC so we may enter heaven. When I replied no, they shook their head, laughing hysterically. As people who are at the opposite end of the spectrum laugh at what they do not understand also.
And yet, people who laugh at the truth they don't understand, think they know so much, they can be guiding lights for others.
And so, they come on the internet, and engage in theological debate, believing themselves able ministers of the word. They are here to give others the benefit of their spiritual knowledge they believe has been divinely revealed to them.
One wonders, why they are on the internet doing this, if they have the knowledge they think they have.
Possibly, if someone read the Bible when young, then were part of a bible quiz team, and the minister encouraged them by telling them they could answer questions even he couldnt answer, this may have lead to an over exaggerated belief as to the knowledge they think they have.
Possibly
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stuart lawrence
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Paul states:
Through the law we become conscious of sin rom3:20
He did NOT write:
Through the law we USED to become conscious of sin.
Why do we become conscious of sin through the law?
Sin IS( not was) the transgression of the law 1john 3:4
People who say they are solely conscious of sin through the Holy Spirits conviction WITHOUT the law, fail to grasp one of the most fundamental facts of the Bible. They have to ignore what is plainly written and plain spiritual truth.
Of course, people will reason anything rather than break the most important commandment to them:
Thou shalt not admit to error
Through the law we become conscious of sin rom3:20
He did NOT write:
Through the law we USED to become conscious of sin.
Why do we become conscious of sin through the law?
Sin IS( not was) the transgression of the law 1john 3:4
People who say they are solely conscious of sin through the Holy Spirits conviction WITHOUT the law, fail to grasp one of the most fundamental facts of the Bible. They have to ignore what is plainly written and plain spiritual truth.
Of course, people will reason anything rather than break the most important commandment to them:
Thou shalt not admit to error
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stuart lawrence
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People say Gods laws exist, then they say they don't exist. Then they say they changed.
Would a Christian be specifically conscious they committed sin BECAUSE they bore false witness, committed the act of adultery, stole, or coveted, or would they only be conscious they sinned by failing to love as they should?
How can anyone respond to the above who claims what is written in the moral law does and does.not exist. What was written in stone was not transferred onto tablets of human hearts. What option is left to them?
The law doesn't make me conscious of sin they say.
I won't laugh, I will simply shake my head in disbelief
Would a Christian be specifically conscious they committed sin BECAUSE they bore false witness, committed the act of adultery, stole, or coveted, or would they only be conscious they sinned by failing to love as they should?
How can anyone respond to the above who claims what is written in the moral law does and does.not exist. What was written in stone was not transferred onto tablets of human hearts. What option is left to them?
The law doesn't make me conscious of sin they say.
I won't laugh, I will simply shake my head in disbelief
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stuart lawrence
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Bob S says the law does make us conscious of sin, BK says it doesn't.
They both say the law does exist and they both say it doesn't.
They both would believe if you commit adultery, bear false witness, steal, or covet you commit sin, however they both believe what was written on stone is not now in your heart, for that law didn't get put there.
I've come to the conclusion, the only worthwhile threads are those where people seek encouragement and help with problems and trials they may be going through. Theological debates are mostly a waste of time.
They both say the law does exist and they both say it doesn't.
They both would believe if you commit adultery, bear false witness, steal, or covet you commit sin, however they both believe what was written on stone is not now in your heart, for that law didn't get put there.
I've come to the conclusion, the only worthwhile threads are those where people seek encouragement and help with problems and trials they may be going through. Theological debates are mostly a waste of time.
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God has told us that we are in the New Covenant now and no longer under the ceremonial laws of Moses which you are promoting. The ceremonial laws of Moses pointing to Jesus, his life and role in the Heavenly Sanctuary have been fulfilled in Jesus. (Col 2:14-17; Hebrews chapters 8; 9; 10; John 1:29; 1Cor 5:6-7; Rom 2:28-29)
Nope because the ceremonial laws of Moses are the Old Covenant that was nailed to the Cross we now have a better sacrifice and High Priest that ministers on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary not made with hands of which the Sanctuary on earth was only a copy. (Col 2:14-17; Hebrews chapters 8; 9; 10; John 1:29; 1Cor 5:6-7; Rom 2:28-29)
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