God's Great Free Gift of Salvation for Everyone

[fhansen]

If a person possesses the assurance that all of their sins have actually been forgiven, and have been forever perfected in the eyes of the Lord [Hebrews 10:14], the answer to that question becomes very obvious ... overflowing love and gratitude for the One who purchased the free and undeserved gift of eternal life for them ... Jesus Christ.

Just to put a nuance on the table here. The historcal understanding is that man has no righteousness on his own apart from God, and that, unless the seeds of transformation, of justice/righteousness, are planted in Him by God then nothing would be changed. The same man would be in charge, forgiven, yes, but that's about it. So why would he be grateful, why would he love? It's a give and take thing: God giving, us receiving to the extent that we will receive, and then act upon, His gift of righteousness as we turn to Him in faith, which, itself, is a gift.

And from there He seeks to draw us into even greater justice, greater resolve, greater conviction, greater faith, hope, and, most importantly, love, all as we cooperate in doing His will by acting upon and expressing that gift, of Himself, to us. At the end of the day He wants us to love as He does, to the extent that we can, knowing that we cannot do that apart from Him and yet knowing that love doesn't truly happen unless and until its chosen.

 

[Clare73]

When comes to Ephesians 2:8-9 someone pointed this out in another thread:

Ephesians 2:8-9 cannot be read on its own, it has to be read in the context of Ephesians 2:1-9 as a whole. The writer says to the Ephesians that they had been saved in spite of any works they had done prior to salvation. It has nothing to do with what was required of them

That would be six of one, and half dozen of the other. . .long time no see. . .where ya' been?

If we're going to go that route, let's do the whole context of Ephesians, which is: God's purpose--the glory and headship of Christ, where Ephesians 2:1-9 is the first step in that purpose--salvation of individuals by grace, through the cross--by grace meaning "through faith--not by works."

 

[Clare73]

When I asked that I was thinking of the member that it was said to, and others who believe in Sola Fide, but don't strike me as those who endulge in constant sin. But I realized right afterwards, there are those who do. But of course the question arises in the sola fide crowd as to whether they actually were saved, since they believe (I think) that salvation causes transformation.
And a question I have is, if someone believes they're saved through faith alone, and do what the Lord wants anyways, what is their motivation?

There seems to be some confusion of the meaning of "not by works" (Ephesians 2:8-9) and "apart from works" (Romans 3:28).
Neither deny the necessity of works for true faith, they simply separate them in terms of causality of salvation and justification.

And Scripture clearly tells us why:
"Salvation is the Lord's!" (Revelation 7:10), ALL of it!
His and his alone (Revelation 19:1; Psalms 37:39).
Man contributes nothing, his works of faith contribute NOTHING,
for he must have nothing about which he could possibly boast.
(Romans 3:27, Romans 4:2; 1 Corinthians 1:29; Ephesians 2:9)

We obey in the Holy Spirit because obedience leads to righteousness leading to holiness
(Romans 6:16, Romans 6:19),
which is sanctification, for "Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14).

 

[Clare73]

I was not agreeing with you, that was a rhetorical question

The only requirement/condition given by God to receive His free gift of Eternal Life is faith/belief/trust in the Messiah.

That's faith in and trust on the atoning sacrifice (blood, Romans 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the remission of one's sin and right standing with God's justice; i.e., "not guilty," declared righteous (justification--sentence of acquittal of guilt by the Judge, God).

Changing ones ways is not a condition.

Change is an automatic result of faith by the rebirth. . .no changing of ways means no rebirth and no true faith, only counterfeit faith; i.e., no salvation, as in Matthew 7:21-23.

 

[rturner76]

Why is it that belief in salvation through faith alone is always equated with living in a constant state of sin?

Because faith without works is dead. If you claim to have faith and have never done an activity in faith, where is your faith?

Why is it that people think you can have faith and no evidence of it?

 

[rturner76]

I was not agreeing with you, that was a rhetorical question

The only requirement/condition given by God to receive His free gift of Eternal Life is faith/belief/trust in the Messiah. Changing ones ways is not a condition.

So you can recieve faith and throw it away or do you have to keep it? How do you keep your faith/ By doing things that people with faith do. Is that a false statement?

 

[Clare73]

No, I am not under the law, nor am I subject to it, to be under the law is to be under the curse, Galatians 3:10.

You are not subject to it for salvation/justification (Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3:28), but you are subject to it for sanctification (Romans 6:16, Romans 6:19), for "Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)

 

[Clare73]

I have said the whole time our works are due to our faith. Now can we have faith and make no change to our behavior? As in, can a whoremonger continue to harlot at the same rate after they accept their faith? No, otherwise their faith meant nothing to them.

I'll "one up" you on that. . .their "faith meant nothing to them" because it was never really (true) faith.

 

[Clare73]

THen how can you have faith with no works?

It's faith apart from faith's works, not faith with "no works."

 

[Clare73]

So you can recieve faith and throw it away or do you have to keep it? How do you keep your faith/ By doing things that people with faith do. Is that a false statement?

Your statement is not a false statement.

Keeping one's faith is the work of the Holy Spirit through Spirit-enabled faithfulness (Philippians 2:13).

 

[rturner76]

It's faith apart from faith's works, not faith with "no works."

It is faith but it is dead faith according to James.

 

[rturner76]

I'll "one up" you on that. . .their "faith meant nothing to them" because it was never really (true) faith.

That is why works are evidence of faith.

 

[Clare73]

It is faith but it is dead faith according to James.

< sigh >

Read James again. . .James is speaking of counterfeit faith which has no works.
Paul is speaking of true faith which has works, but they do not count toward salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9) nor justification (Romans 3:28), only the faith of those works counts.

How many times must this be explained to you?
From post #83, above:

There seems to be some confusion of the meaning of "not by works" (Ephesians 2:8-9) and "apart from works" (Romans 3:28).
Neither deny the necessity of works for true faith, they simply separate them in terms of causality of salvation and justification.

And Scripture clearly tells us why:
"Salvation is the Lord's!" (Revelation 7:10), ALL of it!
His and his alone (Revelation 19:1; Psalms 37:39).
Man contributes nothing, his works of faith contribute NOTHING,
for he must have nothing about which he could possibly boast.
(Romans 3:27, Romans 4:2; 1 Corinthians 1:29; Ephesians 2:9)

We obey in the Holy Spirit because obedience leads to righteousness leading to holiness
(Romans 6:16, Romans 6:19),
which is sanctification, for "Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14).

 

[Clare73]

That is why works are evidence of faith.

Agreed. . .but it is only the faith of those works which save and justify,
it is not those works of the faith which save or justify.

< sigh >

 

[d taylor]

So you can recieve faith and throw it away or do you have to keep it? How do you keep your faith/ By doing things that people with faith do. Is that a false statement?

Not sure where you have learned your information, but a person does not receive faith. They receive God's free gift of Eternal Life by belief/faith/trust in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

 

[d taylor]

That's faith in and trust on the atoning sacrifice (blood, Romans 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the remission of one's sin and right standing with God's justice; i.e., "not guilty," declared righteous (justification--sentence of acquittal of guilt by the Judge, God).

Change is an automatic result of faith by the rebirth. . .no changing of ways means no rebirth and no true faith, only counterfeit faith; i.e., no salvation, as in Matthew 7:21-23.

So all people from Old Testament times are in hell because they had no idea of this sacrifice, like Abraham, Moses, Noah.

Change is not a requirement for person to exercise, to be able to trust in The Messiah for Eternal Life. If it is so, post a verse that plainly states that. As plainly as this verse states on receiving Eternal Lie.

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

So actually are you saying this verse is really saying.
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me and changes their life has everlasting life.

 

[Clare73]

So all people from Old Testament times are in hell because they had no idea of this sacrifice, like Abraham, Moses, Noah.

Sin remitted in the OT was the same way sin is remitted in the NT.
NT: faith in Jesus Christ (the Promise)--(John 3:16) and
OT: faith in the Promise (seed, Jesus Christ, Genesis 15:6; Galatians 3:16).

Change is not a requirement for person to exercise,
to be able to trust in The Messiah for Eternal Life.

Change becomes a part of trusting Jesus Christ for eternal life.

If it is so, post a verse that plainly states that. As plainly as this verse states on receiving Eternal Lie.

"Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)

.

 

[RobertPate]

You are not subject to it for salvation/justification (Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3:28), but you are subject to it for sanctification (Romans 6:16, Romans 6:19), for "Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)

Nope. I am not under the law for anything. The reason being is that I am ALREADY perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. The purpose of the law is to judge and condemn. There is no condemnation for those that are "In Christ" Romans 8:1.

 

[Clare73]

Nope. I am not under the law for anything. The reason being is that I am ALREADY perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. The purpose of the law is to judge and condemn. There is no condemnation for those that are "In Christ" Romans 8:1.

Correct. . .you are not under it; i.e., subject to its curse, but you are also not free to live contrary to it, for "Without holiness no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)

 

[d taylor]

Sin remitted in the OT was the same way sin is remitted in the NT.
NT: faith in Jesus Christ (the Promise)--(John 3:16) and
OT: faith in the Promise (seed, Jesus Christ, Genesis 15:6; Galatians 3:16).

Change becomes a part of trusting Jesus Christ for eternal life.

"Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)

.

You did not say faith in Jesus in the post i addressed you stated.

"That's faith in and trust on the atoning sacrifice (blood, Romans 3:25) of Jesus Christ"

So what is faith in the sacrifice or faith in The Messiah, because they are not the same.

As for your Hebrew verse nothing is stated about receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life in that verse or really about a person having to make a change to receive Eternal Life.

That verse in its context is addressing the discipline of a believer by God.