God's Great Free Gift of Salvation for Everyone

d taylor

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I don't need to because we already know that faith without works is dead. How can you claim to have faith if you have no way to show it?

Let's look at a couple passages:

Luke 11:28 ESV
But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!
Hear the word AND keep it.

Faith is granted to us and when that happens we make changes in our lives. How can we claim to have faith when we never changed any of our sinful ways?

1 John 3:24 ESV
Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

When we keep God's commandments, it is an outward expression of our faith. It doesn't say that a certain number of works saves you but that if you truly have faith, it will show in your behavior. Our works are how we know that he abides in us. We are only capable of this change because we have faith and have been given the Holy Spirit.

John 14:23 ESV
Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

Jesus says "if anyone loves me he will keep my word" which is again illustrating that if you have faith if you believe, you will obey God. It doesn't say you have to perfectly adhere to every law but you can measure a person's faith by their actions.

We believe in two different gospels no need to discuss this any more. Yours by works, mine by faith, like i stated earlier your position is in align with the Judaizer's
 
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Clare73

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Well all have to say is if you do not believe faith in The Messiah is enough to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Then i will part ways with you as we believe in two different Gospels
Your issue is with Romans 3:25, not with me:

"God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement through faith in his blood."

No faith in his blood = no atonement = no remission of sin = no salvation.

Are you sure you don't want to reconsider?
 
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d taylor

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Your issue is with Romans 3:25, not with me:

"God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement through faith in his blood."

No faith in his blood = no atonement = no remission of sin = no salvation.

Are you sure you don't want to reconsider?

No the issue is with you making a false object of faith, the blood of Jesus.
 
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Clare73

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Your issue is with Romans 3:25, not with me:

"God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement through faith in his blood."

No faith in his blood = no atonement = no remission of sin = no salvation.

Are you sure you don't want to reconsider?
No the issue is with you making a false object of faith, the blood of Jesus.
Saving faith is in the person and atoning work of Jesus.

Perhaps you would explain the meaning of Romans 3:25, being true to its words and context, as well as consistent with NT teaching.
 
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rturner76

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We believe in two different gospels no need to discuss this any more. Yours by works, mine by faith, like i stated earlier your position is in align with the Judaizer's
God Bless you and thank you for a civil discourse however I am a Christian, not a Judaizer. This reformist doctrine is a new innovation. I'll stick with the original gospel but thank you for engaging.
 
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rturner76

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Most Mormons who are cultist and many Catholics will agree with you. You believe that evidence of the Holy Spirit is measured by someone's performance. I suppose you get that from James who said, "Faith without works is dead" James was a Judaizer. A Judaizer is someone that believes in Jesus, but also believes that you must keep the law of Moses. There were a lot of Judaizers in the early church.
Paul had a different message, he said, "By the deeds of the law (what you do) no flesh will be justified is his sight" Romans 3:20. It is very apparent that Paul didn't think much about works or obedience. Later on in Hebrews Paul said, "For he that has entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his works, as God did from his" Hebrews 4:10.
Yes, I'm Catholic and I believe myself. Do you always disregard Bible verses that don't line up with your theology?

Jesus said:
2 John 1:6 ESV
And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.

1 John 3:22 ESV
And whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.

Whay not do what Jesus says and obey him if you love him? Faith without obedience is worthless. All you need is a mustard seed of faith so if you only want to do a mustard-seed of works, you will still be saved.

So sin boldly! Like Martin Luther said. But if you want to walk in faith, obey him.
 
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d taylor

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(for anyone who may read this thread in the future)​
This is to address the belief that it takes faith in Jesus and His atoning work on the cross to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Jesus death and resurrection on the cross and from the grave.

Accomplished two goals
(1) This took away the sin of the world, that is removing the sin barrier that was in place to God. So sin will no longer be an obstacle for a person seeking Eternal Life.
(2) This also provided additional proof that Jesus is the resurrection and life. That He is who He stated He is, The unique Son of God, Promised Messiah from the prophecies of The Tanakh.

So when a believer goes out to witness, they have this accomplishment of Jesus, His death and resurrection. As additional to the miracles The Messiah did in the gospels. To be used as proof that Jesus is The promised Messiah, so people may place their faith in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life. The only object (Jesus) given by God, to trust in, to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”


The cross should point a person to Jesus and not itself become an object of faith.
 
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rturner76

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I love to read what Jesus says.

Luke 6:46-48 ESV

“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you? Everyone who comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show you what he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when a flood arose, the stream broke against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built.

“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?" Let's do what Jesus asks us to do. Thank you for posting this passage. It really makes it clear what Jesus wants from us.
 
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RobertPate

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The reason that Jesus abolished the law and the commandments is because he does not want his people to love him because that are commanded to. What kind of a relationship would that be? It would be like a contract that you must sign when you get married. "You are hereby commanded to love your wife". If you have to be told to love your wife or your neighbor, then you have a serious problem. We love our wives and our neighbors not because we are commanded to, but because God loves them and Jesus died for them.
 
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Clare73

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(for anyone who may read this thread in the future)​
This is to address the belief that it takes faith in Jesus and His atoning work on the cross to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.
According to the word of God (Romans 3:25), saving faith includes trust on, belief in Jesus work on the cross as atonement for one's sin.
"God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement through faith in his blood."

The following does not address Romans 3:25.
Jesus death and resurrection on the cross and from the grave.

Accomplished two goals
(1) This took away the sin of the world, that is removing the sin barrier that was in place to God. So sin will no longer be an obstacle for a person seeking Eternal Life.
(2) This also provided additional proof that Jesus is the resurrection and life. That He is who He stated He is, The unique Son of God, Promised Messiah from the prophecies of The Tanakh.

So when a believer goes out to witness, they have this accomplishment of Jesus, His death and resurrection. As additional to the miracles The Messiah did in the gospels. To be used as proof that Jesus is The promised Messiah, so people may place their faith in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life. The only object (Jesus) given by God, to trust in, to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”


The cross should point a person to Jesus and not itself become an object of faith.
 
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Clare73

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The reason that Jesus abolished the law and the commandments is because he
does not want his people to love him because that are commanded to.
What kind of a relationship would that be?
Man's reasoning/thinking, contrary to Biblical reasoning/thinking.
It would be like a contract that you must sign when you get married.
What do you think marriage vows are, if not a contract?
And you contract to more than just love, you contract to be their spouse until death.
"You are hereby commanded to love your wife". If you have to be told to love your wife or your neighbor, then you have a serious problem. We love our wives and our neighbors not because we are commanded to, but because God loves them and Jesus died for them.
And according to that rationale, Jesus loved and died for many in vain.

God does nothing in vain. . .or he would not be sovereign.
 
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RobertPate

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Man's reasoning/thinking, contrary to Biblical reasoning/thinking.

What do you think marriage vows are, if not a contract?
And you contract to more than just love, you contract to be their spouse until death.

And according to that rationale, Jesus loved and died for many in vain.

God does nothing in vain. . .or he would not be sovereign.
Your relationship with the Lord and your husband is based upon law? The Pharisees believed the same thing.
 
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d taylor

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According to the word of God (Romans 3:25), saving faith includes trust on, belief in Jesus work on the cross as atonement for one's sin.
"God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement through faith in his blood."

The following does not address Romans 3:25.

Your theology is built on one verse, so it has trouble being taken as truth. Especially when the verse you post is stated different, from other translations.

Example New Kings James Version states 3:25
whom God set forth as apropitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

But yet you ignore a whole book, which states God's free gift is Eternal Life is received by faith/belief/trust in The Messiah.

It is also shown in The Bible several times, where a truth is built around at least two or three witnesses
This will be the third time I am coming to you. “By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.”
 
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Clare73

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Your theology is built on one verse, so it has trouble being taken as truth.
Trouble where?
How many times must God say it before it is true?
Especially when the verse you post is stated different, from other translations.
Example New Kings James Version states 3:25
whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
Yes, and all those translations mean a sacrifice of atonement through faith/trust in it.
But yet you ignore a whole book, which states God's free gift is Eternal Life is received by faith/belief/trust in The Messiah.
Don't need to ignore anything. . .all are in agreement with the word of God in Romans 3:25.
Trust in the Messiah necessarily means trusting on his work for you, as the word of God states.
It is also shown in The Bible several times, where
a truth is built around at least two or three witnesses.
This will be the third time I am coming to you. "By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established."
God's word does not require any witnesses to be true, only man's word must have witnesses.
 
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RobertPate

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Trouble where?
How many times must God say it before it is true?

Yes, and all those translations mean a sacrifice of atonement through faith/trust in it.

Don't need to ignore anything. . .all are in agreement with the word of God in Romans 3:25.
Trust in the Messiah necessarily means trusting on his work for you, as the word of God states.

God's word does not require any witnesses to be true, only man's word must have witnesses.
All true and right on.

Faith is the glue of Christianity. God is not interested in our works or our obedience, but he is interested in our faith. "For without faith it is impossible to please him" Hebrews 11:6.
 
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JLB777

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All true and right on.

Faith is the glue of Christianity. God is not interested in our works or our obedience, but he is interested in our faith. "For without faith it is impossible to please him" Hebrews 11:6.


Faith must have the corresponding act of obedience in order to be activated, and therefore “alive” and able to produce the intended divine result.

To say “God is not interested in our obedience” is utter and complete nonsense!

Only those who obey Him; obey the Gospel will be saved.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9


But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:16


in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 1:8


For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17



Only those who obey the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved.






JLB
 
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Gr8Grace

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Your theology is built on one verse, so it has trouble being taken as truth. Especially when the verse you post is stated different, from other translations.

Example New Kings James Version states 3:25
whom God set forth as apropitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

But yet you ignore a whole book, which states God's free gift is Eternal Life is received by faith/belief/trust in The Messiah.

It is also shown in The Bible several times, where a truth is built around at least two or three witnesses
This will be the third time I am coming to you. “By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.”
Well Done on this thread D Taylor. You present His Gospel and truth very well. You and I believe the same TRUE Gospel.
 
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d taylor

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Well Done on this thread D Taylor. You present His Gospel and truth very well. You and I believe the same TRUE Gospel.

Good to know a person who believes God promise of Eternal Life by faith in The Messiah. Keep telling people this beautiful message.
 
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RobertPate

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Faith must have the corresponding act of obedience in order to be activated, and therefore “alive” and able to produce the intended divine result.

To say “God is not interested in our obedience” is utter and complete nonsense!

Only those who obey Him; obey the Gospel will be saved.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9


But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:16


in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 1:8


For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17



Only those who obey the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved.






JLB
I don't think that you know what the Gospel is.

The Gospel is the work that Jesus did in our name and on our behalf that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus, God now sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.
 
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The reason that Jesus abolished the law and the commandments is because he does not want his people to love him because that are commanded to. What kind of a relationship would that be? It would be like a contract that you must sign when you get married. "You are hereby commanded to love your wife". If you have to be told to love your wife or your neighbor, then you have a serious problem. We love our wives and our neighbors not because we are commanded to, but because God loves them and Jesus died for them.
Jesus did not abolish the law. Jesus fulfilled the law because we could never accomplish it ourselves.
We who are truly saved love Jesus because He first loved us.
 
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