God's Great Free Gift of Salvation for Everyone

[rturner76]

Not sure where you have learned your information, but a person does not receive faith. They receive God's free gift of Eternal Life by belief/faith/trust in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Do you have to accept that gift or are you talking about universal salvation?

 

[Clare73]

You did not say faith in Jesus in the post i addressed you stated.

"That's faith in and trust on the atoning sacrifice (blood, Romans 3:25) of Jesus Christ"

So what is faith in the sacrifice

I don't know what the content of Biblical faith in Christ is if it is not faith in his blood (Romans 3:25). . .
would it be simply faith that he existed?
That's not Biblical faith.

or faith in The Messiah, because they are not the same.

It's not faith in Christ if it's not faith and trust in his atoning work (Romans 3:25) for the remission of your sin.

As for your Hebrew verse nothing is stated about receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life in that verse or really about a person having to make a change to receive Eternal Life.

You did not request a verse on eternal life, you requested a verse on faith and changing your life.

That verse in its context is addressing the discipline of a believer by God.

Actually, the context of chp 12 is two things: discipline, and warning to avoid discipline.

Warning begins at v. 14: "Make every effort. . .to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord."
Holiness would be a change in one's life.

 

[rturner76]

Agreed. . .but it is only the faith of those works which save and justify,
it is not those works of the faith which save or justify.

< sigh >

Right, and if you have faith, your works will bear that out.

 

[rturner76]

Paul is speaking of true faith which has works,

Exactly

 

[Clare73]

Right, and if you have faith, your works will bear that out.

< sigh >

Agreed. . .but those works of faith do not save (Ephesians 2:8-9) nor do they justify (Romans 3:28), only the faith saves and justifies.

Explained to you in post #93 (for the second time).

 

[d taylor]

I don't know what the content of Biblical faith in Christ is if it is not faith in his blood (Romans 3:25). . .
would it be simply faith that he existed?
That's not Biblical faith.

It's not faith in Christ if it's not faith and trust in his atoning work (Romans 3:25) for the remission of your sin.

You did not request a verse on eternal life, you requested a verse on faith and changing your life.

Actually, the context of chp 12 is two things: discipline, and warning to avoid discipline.

Warning begins at v. 14: "Make every effort. . .to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord."
Holiness would be a change in one's life.

John states it several times.
To believe in the name of Jesus. That is to believe that Jesus is who He says He is the promised Messiah, unique only begotten Son of God from the prophecies of The Tanakh. By being The Messiah He is the resurrection and life.

The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”

Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”
____________

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
____________

How can God telling a person what to believe in (to receive Eternal Life) get any clearer than this verse
but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

*

Here is the post i made (underlined) that you addressed and what i said and i did mention eternal life.

Change is not a requirement for person to exercise, to be able to trust in The Messiah for Eternal Life. If it is so, post a verse that plainly states that. As plainly as this verse states on receiving Eternal Lie.

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

 

[d taylor]

Do you have to accept that gift or are you talking about universal salvation?

I have addressed your comment about universal salvation before. God's Great Free Gift of Salvation for Everyone

 

[rturner76]

I have addressed your comment about universal salvation before. God's Great Free Gift of Salvation for Everyone

Do you acknowledge that faith without works is dead faith?

 

[d taylor]

Do you acknowledge that faith without works is dead faith?

That is what The Bible states so yes

 

[d taylor]

Do you acknowledge that faith without works is dead faith?

Show me a verse stating that faith without works will cause a believer to have a dead Eternal Life and will go to hell.

 

[Clare73]

John states it several times.
To believe in the name of Jesus. That is to believe that Jesus is who He says He is the promised Messiah, unique only begotten Son of God from the prophecies of The Tanakh. By being The Messiah He is the resurrection and life.

That was stated before the cross.

The NT also states that atonement is through faith in his blood (Romans 3:25).
So it takes both, the above and Romans 3:25, for remission of sin which is salvation/justification.

The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”

Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”
____________

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
____________

How can God telling a person what to believe in (to receive Eternal Life) get any clearer than this verse
but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

*

Here is the post i made (underlined) that you addressed and what i said and i did mention eternal life.

Change is not a requirement for person to exercise, to be able to trust in The Messiah for Eternal Life. If it is so, post a verse that plainly states that. As plainly as this verse states on receiving Eternal Lie.

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

 

[d taylor]

That was stated before the cross.

The NT also states that atonement is through faith in his blood (Romans 3:25).
So it takes both, the above and Romans 3:25, for remission of sin which is salvation/justification.

John was written well after the cross

 

[Clare73]

John was written well after the cross

Agreed. . .but did you not quote Jesus, who spoke it before the cross?

 

[rturner76]

Show me a verse stating that faith without works will cause a believer to have a dead Eternal Life and will go to hell.

I don't need to because we already know that faith without works is dead. How can you claim to have faith if you have no way to show it?

Let's look at a couple passages:

Luke 11:28 ESV
But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!
Hear the word AND keep it.

Faith is granted to us and when that happens we make changes in our lives. How can we claim to have faith when we never changed any of our sinful ways?

1 John 3:24 ESV
Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

When we keep God's commandments, it is an outward expression of our faith. It doesn't say that a certain number of works saves you but that if you truly have faith, it will show in your behavior. Our works are how we know that he abides in us. We are only capable of this change because we have faith and have been given the Holy Spirit.

John 14:23 ESV
Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

Jesus says "if anyone loves me he will keep my word" which is again illustrating that if you have faith if you believe, you will obey God. It doesn't say you have to perfectly adhere to every law but you can measure a person's faith by their actions.

 

[RobertPate]

I don't need to because we already know that faith without works is dead. How can you claim to have faith if you have no way to show it?

Let's look at a couple passages:

Luke 11:28 ESV
But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!
Hear the word AND keep it.

Faith is granted to us and when that happens we make changes in our lives. How can we claim to have faith when we never changed any of our sinful ways?

1 John 3:24 ESV
Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

When we keep God's commandments, it is an outward expression of our faith. It doesn't say that a certain number of works saves you but that if you truly have faith, it will show in your behavior. Our works are how we know that he abides in us. We are only capable of this change because we have faith and have been given the Holy Spirit.

John 14:23 ESV
Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

Jesus says "if anyone loves me he will keep my word" which is again illustrating that if you have faith if you believe, you will obey God. It doesn't say you have to perfectly adhere to every law but you can measure a person's faith by their actions.

Most Mormons who are cultist and many Catholics will agree with you. You believe that evidence of the Holy Spirit is measured by someone's performance. I suppose you get that from James who said, "Faith without works is dead" James was a Judaizer. A Judaizer is someone that believes in Jesus, but also believes that you must keep the law of Moses. There were a lot of Judaizers in the early church.
Paul had a different message, he said, "By the deeds of the law (what you do) no flesh will be justified is his sight" Romans 3:20. It is very apparent that Paul didn't think much about works or obedience. Later on in Hebrews Paul said, "For he that has entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his works, as God did from his" Hebrews 4:10.

 

[d taylor]

Agreed. . .but did you not quote Jesus, who spoke it before the cross?

Verse 20:31 states this book was written to tell people how to have life (Eternal). The only book of The Bible to do so.

 

[Clare73]

Verse 20:31 states this book was written to tell people how to have life (Eternal). The only book of The Bible to do so.

The issue is what it means to believe in the name of Jesus, which is presented in pre-cross and post-cross NT teaching, both of which are authoritative.

The meaning of believing in the name of Jesus must include both pre-cross NT teaching that saving faith is in his person, as well as post-cross NT teaching that saving faith is in his blood (Romans 3:25); i.e., his atoning sacrifice.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

It is the work of Jesus alone that saves.
Once we are saved we do good works that are ordained for us to do, Eph2:10
because we are saved,
Not in order to be saved.

 

[d taylor]

That was stated before the cross.

The NT also states that atonement is through faith in his blood (Romans 3:25).
So it takes both, the above and Romans 3:25, for remission of sin which is salvation/justification.

Well all have to say is if you do not believe faith in The Messiah is enough to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Then i will part ways with you as we believe in two different Gospels

 

[rturner76]

It is very apparent that Paul didn't think much about works or obedience.

I prefer to loster to Jesus who said this about obedience:

John 15:10 ESV
If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

2 John 1:6 ESV
And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.

1 John 3:22 ESV
And whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.

The same way you seem to disregard James, do you also disregard Christ's words in favor of Paul? Are you a Christian or a Paulian?

Paul is right that faith is a gift but do you accept that gift or reject it by your actions?