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Featured God loves everyone?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Hammster, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. JM

    JM Predestinarian Supporter

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    UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION


    Deuteronomy 10:14-15 God set his heart in love = chose
    Psalm 33:12 God chooses his own heritage
    Psalm 65:4 Chosen to dwell in his courts
    Psalm 106:5 God's chosen ones
    Haggai 2:23 God chose Zerubbabel
    Matthew 11:27 Only the one the Son chooses know the Father
    Matthew 22:14 Many are called, but few are chosen
    Matthew 24:22, 24, 31 days shortened for the elect the elect cannot
    be deceived gathering of the elect
    Luke 18:7 God will vindicate his elect
    Romans 8:28-30 Called according to God's purpose
    Romans 8:33 These (28-30) are God's elect
    Colossians 3:12 God's chosen ones
    1 Thessalonians 5:9 God has destined us to obtain salvation
    Titus 1:1-2 to further the faith of God's elect
    1 Peter 1:1,2 the exiles who were chosen and destined
    1 Peter 2:8,9 some stumble because they were destined to,
    but others are a chosen race who have been called.
    Revelation 17:14 Those with Christ are called and chosen and faithful
    Mark 13:20 God did the choosing
    Ephesians 1:4 It was done before the foundation of the world
    Revelation 13:8 God chose people, not just a plan
    Revelation 17:8 God chose people, not just a plan
    Romans 9:11-13 God's choice not based on anything creaturely
    Romans 9:16 Not based on man's will or man's exertion
    Romans 10:20 God found by those who did NOT seek him
    1 Corinthians 1:27-29 God chose the foolish, weak, low and despised
    specifically so that no flesh could boast that ANY PART of their salvation was from them.

    2 Timothy 1:9 not by our works, but because of his own purpose
    Ephesians 1:11-12 Works are the result not the cause of election
    Ephesians 2:10 Works are the result not the cause of election
    John 15:16 Apostles did not choose Christ, but he chose.
    Acts 13:48 Those who were ordained believed.
    Acts 18:27 Those who believed did so through grace
    Philippians 1:29 Granted to us to believe
    Philippians 2:12-13 God wills his pleasure in us
    1 Thessalonians 1:4-5 Because chosen, the word came in
    power of Holy Spirit and not just words of men.
    2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 God chose them from the beginning to be saved.
    James 2:5 God has chosen the poor to become rich to faith

    LIMITED ATONEMENT



    The issue of the atonement is not the WORTH of it. The death of Christ is of infinite worth.

    When we use the term "limited" we are referring not to the value of the atonement,
    but to the scope of it. Some Calvinists have therefore preferred not to use the term
    "limited atonement," realizing that all but universalists limit the atonement either
    in respect to its intention or in respect to its power. If it is limited in respect to
    its intention, then it does not apply to all men. If it is limited with respect to its
    power, then it does not apply to all men. If it is limited with respect to its power,
    then it does not actually save, but merely makes salvation a possibility. Now I have
    no problem with the term, because it fits the acrostic TULIP quite nicely. Nevertheless,
    a lot of ink has been wasted attacking and defending this particular doctrine when,
    in fact, the attackers often did not understand what they were attacking, but simply
    bristled at the idea of anything pertaining to Christ being "limited." The issue in
    the doctrine of limited atonement is: Who did Christ actually redeem, anyway?


    1. Christ came not merely to enable men to be saved, but actually to save them.

    Matthew 1:21 He shall save his people from their sins
    Luke 19:10 Christ came to seek and to save what was lost
    2 Corinthians 5:21 he was made sin for us
    Galatians 1:4 Christ gave himself to deliver us.
    1 Timothy 1:15 Jesus came to save sinners
    Titus 2:14 He gave himself for us to redeem us.
    1 Peter 3:18 Suffered to bring us to God
    2 Corinthians 5:14-15 Christ died for all who die to sin
    Ephesians 5:25 Christ loved the church and gave himself for it.
    Acts 20:28 Christ purchased the church with his own blood
    Isaiah 53:6 The Lord has laid our sins upon Christ
    Ephesians 1:7 We have actual redemption
    Hebrews 1:3 Sins are actually purged.


    2. As a result of Christ's work, his people are reconciled to God, justified,
    given the Holy Spirit who regenerates and sanctifies them. All these blessings were
    actually secured by Christ.

    Romans 5:10 we were reconciled by the death of God's Son
    2 Corinthians 5:18-20 God reconciled us to himself by Christ
    Ephesians 2:15-16 Christ abolished enmity of ordinances and
    reconciled us to God by the cross.
    Colossians 1:21-22 Christ reconciled us by the body of his flesh through death
    Hebrews 2:17 he made reconciliation for the sins of his people.
    1 John 2:2 Christ is propitiation for sin
    1 John 4:10 his Son the propitiation for our sins.


    3. Christ secured righteousness for his people

    Romans 3:24-15 Redemption secures justification
    Romans 5:8-9 Justified by his blood
    1 Corinthians 1:30 He is made to us wisdom, righteousness,sanctification & redemption.
    Galatians 3:13 Christ made a curse for us
    Colossians 1:13-14 He has delivered us from the power of darkness.
    Hebrews 9:12 blood of Christ obtained eternal redemption
    Hebrews 9:15 death is redemption of transgressions
    1 Peter 1:18-19 redeemed ... with the precious blood
    1 Peter 2:24 he bare our sins

    4. Christ, by his atonement, secured the gift of the Spirit, which includes
    regeneration and sanctification and all that is involved with them.

    Ephesians 1:3-4 all spiritual blessings based upon being chosen in Christ
    Philippians 1:29 even suffering "given" to us in behalf of Christ
    Acts 5:31 God gives repentance and forgiveness
    Titus 2:14 Christ gave himself for us - to redeem and purify.
    Titus 3:5-6 Washing of regeneration and renewing of Holy Spirit
    Hebrews 10:10 Sanctified by the offering of the body of Christ
    Ephesians 5:25-26 Christ gave himself for the church to sanctify and cleanse it.
    1 Corinthians 1:30 wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and righteousness from Christ
    Hebrews 9:14 Christ's blood purges our conscience from dead works
    Hebrews 13:12 Jesus' blood sanctifies his people
    1 John 1:7 Christ's blood cleanses us from all sin


    5. Jesus laid down his life for his sheep. They are those who are made to hear his
    voice (i.e. obey his voice) and follow him.

    John 10:11 the good shepherd gives his life for his sheep (by implication:
    not for wolves or goats.)
    John 10:14 he knows them and is known by them
    John 10:15 lays down his life for his sheep
    John 10:16 other sheep which he must bring - they too shall hear his voice
    John 10:26 his detractors did not believe because they were not of his sheep
    John 10:27 his sheep hear his voice and follow him
    John 10:28 the sheet shall never perish


    6. Jesus, in his high-priestly prayer, prayer not for the world but for those given
    to him by the Father

    John 17:9 Christ prayed for those given to him out of the world (cf.v.6)
    John 17:20 Christ prayed also for those who would believe on Christ


    7. Paul traced all the blessings which the saints inherit (including redemption)
    back to the fact that they were chosen in the eternal counsel of God. (Ephesians 1:3-12)

    Ephesians 1:3-4 all spiritual blessings (and redemption is a spiritual blessing)
    are ours based upon God choosing us in Christ before the foundation of the world
    ...to sanctification as well as justification.

    Ephesians 1:5 God predestinated us to adoption according to the good
    pleasure of his will
    Ephesians 1:7 Our redemption is secured by his blood -as also forgiveness of sins.


    - Jesus was sent into the world by the Father to save the people that the Father
    had given him. None of them shall be lost.

    John 6:35-40: And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me
    shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
    But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
    All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me
    I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine
    own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will
    which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing,
    but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him
    that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him,
    may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    "JUSTICE TOWARD THE WICKED"
    (Reprobation)


    Psalm 7:11 God is angry with the wicked every day
    Psalm 11:5 God hates the violent one
    Genesis 6:5-7 God's determination to destroy the wicked
    Genesis 19:13 God's destruction of the wicked is on account of their wickedness
    Deuteronomy 31:17 God's anger is kindled against the evil doer because he is wicked
    1 Samuel 3:14 Eli's house shall not be cleansed with sacrifice or offering forever
    Psalm 81:11-12 God gives people up to walk in their own counsel - hardening
    Isaiah 6:9 Hearing without understanding and seeing without perceiving
    Isaiah 6:10 Judicial hardening of non-responsive
    Isaiah 29:9-12 Lord has closed the eye of those he will punish
    Jeremiah 6:30 Reprobate silver is rejected - so these are
    rejected by God.
    Jeremiah 7:16 Do not pray for the reprobate
    Hosea 5:6 The iniquity of the people is such that God has withdrawn from them
    Matthew 13:14-15 Isaiah's prophecy fulfilled in not understanding God's kingdom
    Mark 3:29 Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is never
    forgiven
    John 10:26 They believed not because they were not of
    Christ's sheep
    John 17:12 The son of perdition was lost in order to fulfil Scripture
    Romans 9:21-22 some vessels are fitted for destruction by the
    potter
    Romans 11:7 the rest were blinded (literally hardened)
    2 Thessalonians 2:11 God will send strong delusion, causing the wicked to believe a lie,
    so that they might be damned.
    Jude 4 men ordained to condemnation
    Isaiah 19:14 The Lord led Egypt astray
    Exodus 9:16 Purpose of Pharaoh being raised up
    Proverbs 16:4 God created the wicked for the day of evil
    Luke 8:10 parables spoken so that some will not see and
    thus be hardened
    Psalm 28:5 God will destroy those who refuse to understand his word


    - Compiled by Richard Bacon
     
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  2. renniks

    renniks Active Member

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    No one is saying God doesn't have to call us. But, neither is it rational to believe we are irresistibly caused to respond. Jesus said he longed to take all Israel under his wing, but they were not willing. In fact, to claim grace is irresistible makes a large part of the scripture nonsense, starting with Adam and Eve. It makes spiritual warfare null and void, it makes evangelicalism pointless and really, why did Jesus have to die if he was just programming some to respond and some to reject him?
     
  3. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Soli Deo Gloria

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    Once you understand the beautiful doctrine of grace more than you do now, you will ask instead, "Why did he even choose to save me?" It humbles such a one, and I see that you are too resistance to accept such a glorious truth. I was like that once until God opened my mind and heart to Scripture.
     
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  4. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    A creative use of the word hate can be found comparing Matthew and Luke.

    Verses where it says in Matthew where you need to love God the most to be His disciple, says you need to hate everyone to be His disciple. Taking the two accounts in harmony illustrates that hating as an applied definition is putting people second all the time.

    There are some people God puts second all the time, these are the people who do not trust Him. It's not like He doesn't want to bless them, He just has nothing to work with being in another dimension and all.
     
  5. renniks

    renniks Active Member

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    I already ask why he would die for me, but to believe he died for me and not for another creates a god who is less merciful than man. Paul said he could wish he was accursed to save fellow Jews. Do you think Paul was more merciful than God?
     
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  6. Hammster

    Hammster Private Status. Do Not Read. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    God hates sin and sinners, but shows mercy to some.
     
  7. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Soli Deo Gloria

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    God is not obligated to show mercy to any. He doesn't owe anyone anything. He would be in the right to condemn all men if he so wished. If God wanted to show mercy to a few, he would not be less merciful in the slightest.
     
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  8. renniks

    renniks Active Member

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    That makes no sense whatsoever. If I have the means to save everyone from a house fire and only pick one to save, even if they were foolish and started the fire themselves, I am not more merciful to one than to the others?
     
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  9. renniks

    renniks Active Member

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    God shows his love by dying for us while we are the sinners. Doesn't sound like hate to me. Scripture says "whosoever" not a pre selected few.
     
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  10. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Soli Deo Gloria

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    So...in such a scenario you just created, why is there still hell? Why can't he do away with it? It sounds to me you just called God unmerciful for allowing the rest to burn in the house that is up in flames.
    Actually, "whosoever" isn't in the Greek. It is "every one believing."
     
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  11. Hammster

    Hammster Private Status. Do Not Read. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Have you heard about Hell?
     
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  12. renniks

    renniks Active Member

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    Yes, it's for those who reject his hand of mercy.
     
  13. Hammster

    Hammster Private Status. Do Not Read. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I thought it was for sinners.
     
  14. renniks

    renniks Active Member

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    No, God doesn't have to save anyone, but in fact, he does offer salvation to all who will believe. You apparently think you won the God lottery and God picked you? Are you better than someone else?
     
  15. Hammster

    Hammster Private Status. Do Not Read. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    If He doesn’t have to save anyone, why reject the idea that He has mercy on who He has mercy?
     
  16. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Soli Deo Gloria

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    But he has to love all?
     
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  17. renniks

    renniks Active Member

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    So God doesn't love sinners? In any way? Wow, you must be extreme hypercalvinist. I don't think even Calvin would agree
     
  18. renniks

    renniks Active Member

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    God is love. It isn't one of its attributes it's what he is. 1John 4:8
     
  19. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Soli Deo Gloria

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    God is also Mercy, but we still see that people are punished in Hell. Just because he is love doesn't mean he loves all.
     
  20. renniks

    renniks Active Member

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    Because that verse doesn't mean what you think it means. What Paul is getting at is that God can offer salvation to everyone if he wants, not just to Israel. You all have it exactly backwards.
     
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