GOD CREATED EVIL, Period!

[Hismessenger]

Zeena,

Is God soveriegn in your life. If so why do you try and limit what he can and can't do.
The word says all thing were created by him. What does not come under the word All.

hismessenger

 

[squint]

There are many people who believe God created evil because they falsely think Calvin was right.

Calvin has nothing to do with the scriptural facts as shown.

God punishes persons and nations according to HIS wickedness, and not thier own!

LIES!!!

God without question works retributive evil, and yes, the evil present we ALL carry in our flesh is our own as it is OUR flesh. That doesn't mean however it is 'us' as Gods children.

You know the drill.

 

[squint]

Neither Satan, nor you and I, were CREATED evil,

Never said you or I were. But to lump us in with Satan who was A MURDERER from the 'beginning' (John 8:44) is not even an honest comparison.

we CHOSE to sin, wherefore the Lord is JUST & The Justifier of whosoever should believe on Jesus as the propitiation for OUR sins!

You can certainly take Satan's thoughts for your own. That is part of his deception and those who do so are and remain his slaves.

http://www.christianforums.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes+7:29&version=ASV;KJV;NIV
s

 

[squint]

Job 40:8
Wilt thou even annul my judgment? Wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be justified?

We've done this drill as well Zeena. You can put up all the scripture you want. I will disagree with none of same.

Reflections on those matters are vastly more interesting. Good when they are right...and from the 'other party' THE DEVIL, when wrong.

Pretty simple.

s

 

[2 King]

GOD CREATED EVIL, Period!

God cannot do something that is a violation of his own existence and nature.

 

[2 King]

Evil is not a creation, it's a relationship, thus it can't be created, rather expressed.

 

[Zeena]

binding ALL MANKIND to disobedience, then DISOBEDIENCE will have served its' purpose to God AS A SERVANT to Him.

1 Corinthians 6:15-20
Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

 

[Zeena]

Zeena,

Is God soveriegn in your life. If so why do you try and limit what he can and can't do.
The word says all thing were created by him. What does not come under the word All.

hismessenger

1 Corinthians 6:15-20
Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Jeremiah 3:1
"If a man divorces his wife
and she leaves him and marries another man,
should he return to her again?
Would not the land be completely defiled?
But you have lived as a prostitute with many lovers—
would you now return to me?"
declares the LORD.

1 Corinthians 5:2
And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

 

[Zeena]

Calvin has nothing to do with the scriptural facts as shown.

And the ONE, single verse of your supposed Scriptural fact has ten, twenty, even thirty CONTRARY Scripture verses to your ONE faulty interpretation.

2 Corinthians 13:1
This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

God without question works retributive evil, and yes, the evil present we ALL carry in our flesh is our own as it is OUR flesh. That doesn't mean however it is 'us' as Gods children.

You know the drill.

Evil is not a creation, it's a relationship, thus it can't be created, rather expressed

 

[squint]

Evil is not a creation, it's a relationship, thus it can't be created, rather expressed.

You are welcome to respond to the specific scriptures and presentations in some of the previous posts.

Making declarations is somewhat pointless.

 

[Zeena]

Ecclesiastes 7:29
Behold, this only have I found: that God made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

 

[Zeena]

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

So then, who was Jesus speaking of here, Satan or His Holy Father?

John 19:11
Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.


Did the Father deliver Jesus up to Pilate, or did Satan?

Luke 22:53
When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.

 

[DArceri]

So then, who was Jesus speaking of here, Satan or His Holy Father?

John 19:11
Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.


Did the Father deliver Jesus up to Pilate, or did Satan?

Luke 22:53
When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.

Actually, it was the Father's Divine plan that His Son die on the cross. IOW, He allowed evil to have it's way to accomplish His will. It was also His will to allow Job to be attacked by Satan. BOTTOM LINE, God not only allows evil to exist, but He also regulates it. If you don't believe this, then you rob the believer of his joy that comes from completely surrending to God's wisdom.

 

[Zeena]

Actually, it was the Father's Divine plan that His Son die on the cross. IOW, He allowed evil to have it's way to accomplish His will. It was also His will to allow Job to be attacked by Satan. BOTTOM LINE, God not only allows evil to exist, but He also regulates it. If you don't believe this, then you rob the believer of his joy that comes from completely surrending to God's wisdom.

Who was Jesus referring to in John 19:11?

 

[DArceri]

Who was Jesus referring to in John 19:11?

Zeena,
By chapter 19 it was the Son of Man's time to be 'lifted up'!!! God the FATHER used Satan as His tool for His purpose of Glorifying His Son.....That being said, although Satan was a allowed to 'sift' both Caiphas and Judas like wheat, they both were held morally responsible for there actions for they both had seen and heard the overwhelming evidence that He was the Messiah and Son of God. We have 18 earlier chapters showing Jesus testimony about Himself to all His own people...... It is quite clear from scripture that Satan's days are numbered....This suggests that God is allowing Satan to do his evil work for a SEASON. It is also quite clear that the pharisees did the bidding of Satan, the father of darkness, during Jesus earthly ministry.....

John 8:37 ...you seek to kill me because my word finds no place in you. 38 I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father. 39 Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works Abraham did, 40 but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. 41 You are doing the works your father did." They said to him, "We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God." 42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? 47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.




.

 

[Zeena]

Zeena,
By chapter 19 it was the Son of Man's time to be 'lifted up'!!! God the FATHER used Satan as His tool for His purpose of Glorifying His Son.....That being said, although Satan was a allowed to 'sift' both Caiphas and Judas like wheat, they both were held morally responsible for there actions for they both had seen and heard the overwhelming evidence that He was the Messiah and Son of God. We have 18 earlier chapters showing Jesus testimony about Himself to all His own people...... It is quite clear that they did the bidding of Satan, the father of darkness..... John 8 :37 ...you seek to kill me because my word finds no place in you. 38 I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father. 39 Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works Abraham did, 40 but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. 41 You are doing the works your father did." They said to him, "We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God." 42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? 47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.




.

Satan did the evil then, not God?
But 'allowed' by God for the greater good [the propitiation for our sins?]
He knew that Satan would hand the Son of God over to Pilate because He knew what was in Satans heart?

Although not condoning it, He allowed it, yes?
Seeing as He has given free choice to all?

Acts 17:30-31
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

 

[DArceri]

Satan did the evil then, not God?
But 'allowed' by God for the greater good [the propitiation for our sins?]
He knew that Satan would hand the Son of God over to Pilate because He knew what was in Satans heart?

Although not condoning it, He allowed it, yes?
Seeing as He has given free choice to all?

Acts 17:30-31
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

THAT ARGUMENT FALLS SHORT.......Like I said in another thread, before creation existed, God was fully aware that Satan would come to be, and thus it can be said that GOD is ultimately the source of evil's existance. Think about it. God knew Satan's rebellion would happen since He knows all things, including the future. After the cosmic treason, God could have easily thrown Satan into the 'abyss' on day one and locked the Key to the door forever and ever. BUT HE DIDN'T!!!!! He allowed Satan to roam the earth and to tempt Adam and Eve. Thus God can be said to be the ultimate source of why evil exists.

 

[Zeena]

THAT ARGUMENT FALLS SHORT.......Like I said in another thread, before creation existed, God was fully aware that Satan would come to be, and thus it can be said that GOD is ultimately the source of evil's existance. Think about it. God knew Satan's rebellion would happen since He knows all things, including the future. After the cosmic treason, God could have easily thrown Satan into the 'abyss' on day one and locked the Key to the door forever and ever. BUT HE DIDN'T!!!!! He allowed Satan to roam the earth and to tempt Adam and Eve. Thus God can be said to be the ultimate source of why evil exists.

God does not know the future, He knows the HEARTS!

Otherwise there would be no choices, no decisions to make and we'd all just be a buncha puppets!

 

[Hismessenger]

God does not know the future, He knows the HEARTS!

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. God ordained Christ as the lamb for the sacrifice. Satan was only the instrument used to carry out God's plan. The beginning and the end. Your right, God does'nt know the future, He is the future because He is the one who sustains ALL the creation. There goes that word ALL again.
You still haven't shown one thing which the word does'nt cover.

hismessenger

 

[squint]

So then, who was Jesus speaking of here, Satan or His Holy Father?

God said He create(S) evil. How that is dispensed is multifold.

John 19:11
Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.


Did the Father deliver Jesus up to Pilate, or did Satan?

God in the flesh submitted Himself to the power of darkness in the creation and to death.

Luke 22:53
When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.