GOD CREATED EVIL, Period!

[theWaris1]

I would ask a simple question but I already know the answer, so I will ask this , another very simple and straight forward request. If God ended this creation today, where would evil be?

hismessenger

Where ever God wanted it to be. It's all going according to his plan.

 

[Zeena]

Where ever God wanted it to be. It's all going according to his plan.

The what do you do with Scripture?

Jer 32:35
And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

 

[Hismessenger]

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

You can deny the truth but it still doesn't change the truth from being what it is. God created the HEAVENS and the earth. That means all the heavenly host as well as all the physical universe.

Pro 16:4 The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.

Jhn 1:3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Now the question is, are you a true believer and if so, why do you deny his word. Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word which proceeds out of the mouth of God. His word does not lie. So why is it so many can't accept the truth. Leaning to their own understanding which
he told us not to do.

hismessenger

 

[Zeena]

2 Tim 3:
Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Zech 7:11-13
But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear. Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the LORD of hosts. Therefore it is come to pass, that as he cried, and they would not hear; so they cried, and I would not hear, saith the LORD of hosts

 

[OzSpen]

Hi Oz. If you search the scripture you should find that RA =

From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]

Dark Red is the common use so the word or that is proceeding the colon.
Bad or Evil, calamity, wrong, trouble, mischief but they are all forms of BADNESS yes?
If you insert the word 'Calamity' where 'RA' was written in Hebrew most of the time it would sound silly or inappropriate.

Just because God created Evil does not mean he is Evil or a tempter. But he did created Evil and the Evil tempter.
The tempter does nothing that Gods hasn't approved of as the book of Job shows..

NOW sit down, hold on here and read this..

KJV
Mic 2:3 Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, against this family do I devise an evil, from which ye shall not remove your necks; neither shall ye go haughtily: for this time is evil.

YLT~ youngs literal
Mic 2:3 Therefore, thus said Jehovah: Lo, I am devising against this family evil, From which ye do not remove your necks, Nor walk loftily, for a time of evil it is

Who planned the Evil against this family? the Lord did.
It's a calamity, it's bad, its evil.

Wilt thy explain it away also or accept the fact that Yahweh said he created Evil? Then you can begin to unravel the other mysteries but not until you accept his words.

shlama akai

.

Your promotion of ra in Micah 2:3 as meaning God created evil against the family [clan, extended family or nation], is found to be incongruent with the Hebrew scholars involved in producing these translations of that verse:

1. Therefore thus says the LORD:behold, against this family I am devising disaster,[a] from which you cannot remove your necks, and you shall not walk haughtily, for it will be a time of disaster (ESV).
Footnotes:
Micah 2:3 The same Hebrew word can mean evil or disaster, depending on the context

2. Therefore the Lord says this: “Look, I am devising disaster for this nation! It will be like a yoke from which you cannot free your neck. You will no longer walk proudly, for it will be a time of catastrophe (NET).

3. So Yahweh says this: Look, I am now plotting a disaster for this breed from which you will not extricate your necks; you will not hold your heads up then, for the times will be disastrous indeed (New Jerusalem Bible).

4. Therefore, the LORD says: “I am planning disaster against this people, from which you cannot save yourselves. You will no longer walk proudly, for it will be a time of calamity (NIV).

For what purpose did God create the world? This is a summary from www.bible.org:

the Bible teaches us God created both the angels and man with volition, or the freedom of choice. He created both as holy and without sin that they might not only serve Him as the Creator, but bring Him glory. In particular, man, being created in God’s image (Gen. 1:26f), was created to have fellowship with God through the exercise of that image. Man was created to glorify God through the exercise of his personality—mind, heart, and will. With his mind he was to know God, with his heart he was to love God, and with his will, in response to his understanding and love of God, he was to choose for God in obedience. But God did not create robots. That would have brought very little glory to God. Because His creatures were not robots, there was the risk of a negative choice. But God, by His sovereign will, purpose, and foreknowledge, determined to allow this, indeed, He ordained it by His own eternal wisdom without Himself being the cause.

Many struggle with this, but in the process of all that has occurred, God’s glory is supremely revealed in all His Holy attributes—His holiness, righteousness, justice, mercy, grace, and love, veracity, truth, etc. God did not cause the creature to sin. If the creature was to really have the freedom to know, love, and choose for God and respond in worship and obedience as a free and independent agent, he had to have true freedom of choice. Thus, compare the temptation of Eve by the devil. He attacked her knowledge and understanding of God to get her to doubt God’s love, etc. The race fell because of Adam and Eve’s negative response to the grace of God. But in the process, God’s character and glory is revealed in a more total or complete way. So, through the cross, man’s sin, like diamonds reflecting the light against the backdrop of black velvet, reflects God’s love, mercy, grace, holiness and justice in infinite ways.

Oz

 

[Hismessenger]

Deu 32:4 [He is] the Rock, His work [is] perfect; For all His ways [are] justice, A God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright [is] He.

Understanding this verse is the true beginning of wisdom and understanding for if you can grasp and believe what it says, you will truly stop judging the God of all creation for what it is that you know not what he's doing. When he says to judge not less you be judged, he isn't just talking about your fellow man but also your judgment of HIS works. I wouldn't want to fall into the hands of an angry God because of false judgements and unbelief.

hismessenger

 

[theWaris1]

Your promotion of ra in Micah 2:3 as meaning God created evil against the family [clan, extended family or nation], is found to be incongruent with the Hebrew scholars involved in producing these translations of that verse:

1. Therefore thus says the LORD:behold, against this family I am devising disaster,[a] from which you cannot remove your necks, and you shall not walk haughtily, for it will be a time of disaster (ESV).
Footnotes:
Micah 2:3 The same Hebrew word can mean evil or disaster, depending on the context

2. Therefore the Lord says this: “Look, I am devising disaster for this nation! It will be like a yoke from which you cannot free your neck. You will no longer walk proudly, for it will be a time of catastrophe (NET).

3. So Yahweh says this: Look, I am now plotting a disaster for this breed from which you will not extricate your necks; you will not hold your heads up then, for the times will be disastrous indeed (New Jerusalem Bible).

4. Therefore, the LORD says: “I am planning disaster against this people, from which you cannot save yourselves. You will no longer walk proudly, for it will be a time of calamity (NIV).

For what purpose did God create the world? This is a summary from www.bible.org:
Oz

sorry OZ I already covered the RA topic.
Evil is used most often for RA.

A disaster around your necks?.. Makes little sense.
You didn't refute what I wrote you just repeated the same old tired lines. It's as if I wasted my time writing that out. Sigh~

.

 

[OzSpen]

sorry OZ I already covered the RA topic.
Evil is used most often for RA.

A disaster around your necks?.. Makes little sense.
You didn't refute what I wrote you just repeated the same old tired lines. It's as if I wasted my time writing that out. Sigh~
.

I refuted what you wrote about Micah 2:3, but you don't seem to have liked that reply from the Hebrew scholars of the Bible translations I provided. So you give me this tired response.

You didn't waste your time writing anything out in your Micah 2:3 promotion of ra=evil. But you don't like what I wrote in response, so you come back with this kind of personal attack. We can't have a logical conversation when you use this tactic.

By the way, as indicated by the translations of Micah 2:3 that I gave you, "family" means clan, extended family or nation. For a nation to have a disaster around its neck makes excellent sense as a metaphor. Seems like that is happening in Libya right now.

Oz

 

[Hismessenger]

Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

hismessenger

 

[Zeena]

hismessenger

Isa 10:20-34
20And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
21The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.
22For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.
23For the Lord GOD of hosts shall make a consumption, even determined, in the midst of all the land.
24Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt.
25For yet a very little while, and the indignation shall cease, and mine anger in their destruction.
26And the LORD of hosts shall stir up a scourge for him according to the slaughter of Midian at the rock of Oreb: and as his rod was upon the sea, so shall he lift it up after the manner of Egypt.
27And it shall come to pass in that day, that his burden shall be taken away from off thy shoulder, and his yoke from off thy neck, and the yoke shall be destroyed because of the anointing.
28He is come to Aiath, he is passed to Migron; at Michmash he hath laid up his carriages:
29They are gone over the passage: they have taken up their lodging at Geba; Ramah is afraid; Gibeah of Saul is fled.
30Lift up thy voice, O daughter of Gallim: cause it to be heard unto Laish, O poor Anathoth.
31Madmenah is removed; the inhabitants of Gebim gather themselves to flee.
32As yet shall he remain at Nob that day: he shall shake his hand against the mount of the daughter of Zion, the hill of Jerusalem.
33Behold, the Lord, the LORD of hosts, shall lop the bough with terror: and the high ones of stature shall be hewn down, and the haughty shall be humbled. 34And he shall cut down the thickets of the forest with iron, and Lebanon shall fall by a mighty one.

Jer 31:31
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

1 Cor 11:25
In like manner also the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do, as often as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

Heb 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 9:8
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

2 Cor 3:7-11
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

2 Tim 1:9-10
9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Col 2:15
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Heb 9:24-26
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

 

[GoneFishing]

I almost never tell anyone this story because I don't think there is any truth to it but it has raised these questions in me more than I should let them so before you read understand this is not what I think but an experience I once had.

Before I was saved besides the prayers I learned in Sunday school as a small child. I was heavily experimenting with drugs. One of those drugs was Special K. I had injected a large dose into a muscle and went into a trance then temporarily came out of that trance to long enough to inject myself again with another large dose. As I slipped off into the trance again this is what I saw.

I saw myself sitting in the door way from a room across the hall then I saw myself in the room from the door way. I then shot through the stars at light speed like star wars the stars became strings of light. I began to slow down when I was deep in space and I began to turn around slowly I saw the earth. On one side of the earth I saw God. On the other side of the earth I saw Satan. They were having a conversation and as I listened I could tell they were playing a game and the Earth was just a board game and we were the pieces. They were debating a rule. God said "I made the rules". They spotted me and began to chastise me saying I knew to much and I would go to Hell. So Satan took me to hell where I was waiting for my punishment. Satan standing over me telling me why I was there and what my punishment was going to be I felt something boiling in my belly and I began to speak. I started quoting all the scripture I had learned as a child that related to my salvation through Christ and how I had accepted Christ as my Savior and how I couldn't go to hell. This made him MAD!!! So he kicked me and I flew out of Hell and woke up.

 

[Hismessenger]

and I have created the waster to destroy.

definition of waster;

Outline of Biblical Usage
1) to destroy, corrupt, go to ruin, decay
a) (Niphal) to be marred, be spoiled, be corrupted, be corrupt, be injured, be ruined, be rotted
b) (Piel)
1) to spoil, ruin
2) to pervert, corrupt, deal corruptly (morally)
c) (Hiphil)
1) to spoil, ruin, destroy
2) to pervert, corrupt (morally)
3) destroyer (participle)
d) (Hophal) spoiled, ruined (participle)

Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all [things] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

All of this can be backed up with scripture. Now ask yourself why would God make these statements if he didn't have purpose in his creation for these individuals. Does it change who he is?

hismessenger

 

[Zeena]

2 Cor 3:7-11
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

 

[Hismessenger]

Zeena, you continue to post things Which show denial of God's word. If he says that he created the wicked for the day of evil, how do you continue to deny the truth. God has purpose in everything that he has manifested in this creation whether you understand it or not.
He has said it is so so who do you believe.

hismessenger

 

[Zeena]

Zeena, you continue to post things Which show denial of God's word.

All I did was quote the Scripture..

If it's His Word, why are you in denial?

If he says that he created the wicked for the day of evil, how do you continue to deny the truth.

Because it doesn't line up with the rest of Scripture, as quoted.

Ergo it is our interpretation that is mistaken, for it can never be God.

[He doesn't lie, therefore He has not created lairs]

God has purpose in everything that he has manifested in this creation whether you understand it or not.
He has said it is so so who do you believe.

hismessenger

Why don't you believe that God is good?

 

[Hismessenger]

Zeena,
why can't you grasp the fact that what he has ordained for his creation has nothing to do with who He is other than for His purpose. God is more than good, he is perfect and all his ways are perfect in every aspect of what he is doing. We are created for his purpose. The purpose was not created for us to have something to do but rather it was we who are designed to his needs and purpose. Ergo, there can be evil in the creation according to his purpose.

The LORD hath made all [things] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Because he has done this doesn't make him evil but falls in line with his eternal plan.
It is very simple when you let go of the religious mind and embrace the spirit of truth. If God can be in hell, as David alluded to, why don't you understand that there can be no hell without the sustaining power of the almighty God for he is the very essence of the entire creation. It is all caught up in Him. And when he says enough, all creation will return to the place from which it came, the mind of God.

hismessenger

 

[rogueapologist]

It's impossible for sin to be created by God, for sin is the antithesis of good (which God is). So then, if God has foreordained that evil should obtain, we must conclude that evil is in fact good, for the sheer reason that it exists eternally within the good pleasure of God.

If evil, however, is to be understood as something contrary to the will and good purposes of God, we cannot consistently understand this "evil" as being created by God, for how can God create that which is, by definition, the diminution of that which God is (good)?

 

[Hismessenger]

With man there are always two sides to every thing. With God there is only I Am according to his good and perfect will that all things, both what we call good and evil, are there to serve his purpose. Who knows the purpose of God except what he has allowed us to understand, which is only a drop in the eternal that he is. This is where faith must take hold. I can give you plenty of scripture to show what we would have considered evil or bad to only be the catalist for good.

hismessenger

 

[Ishraqiyun]

I saw myself sitting in the door way from a room across the hall then I saw myself in the room from the door way. I then shot through the stars at light speed like star wars the stars became strings of light. I began to slow down when I was deep in space and I began to turn around slowly I saw the earth. On one side of the earth I saw God. On the other side of the earth I saw Satan. They were having a conversation and as I listened I could tell they were playing a game and the Earth was just a board game and we were the pieces.

Sounds like you met the demiurge, Yaldabaoth. He considers us his pets, toys, and slaves. He is a very jealous "god". Satan is one of his persecuting angels. They work together. See the book of Job for example. Both of them are really put off by Christ and rage against him. When you meet Yaldy just let him know you are going to tell his mommy (Sophia) on him and he will freak out.

 

[AHJE]

Consider the 4 attributes of GOD, Omnipotent (all powerful) Omnipresent, (is every where at every time) Omniscient, (all knowing) and eternal which means was there from beginning and will be there forever.

With these great attributes of God, its hard to imagine how evil ever came to be, that is as we know it to be. Most people believe that evil (devil) is an arch RIVAL of good (God). Such a believe is illogical when you consider an all powerful God, all knowing and perfect God. Which means everything he does is PERFECT with not even a slight error. We (esp. Christian) believe that devil was God creature. Then again we say that this creature rebelled against his maker! Check this out,what was made with PERFECTION turned to be IMPERFECT and rebelled against his designer. (rebellion is no doubt an imperfection) Such a believe is not only illogical but means that God made an error in his creation-which is not possible! Even men never quarrel with their tools! We forget that nothing surprises God cause he knows the future. U cant impress God by being too righteous, he made u that way! According to an Omniscient God FREE WILL doesn't exist.

So how did this creature 'turned against' God? The ONLY logical explanation is that everything was God's plan. God designed both good and evil, he is above all, rules over everything. The devil is not a rival of GOD but a creature working according to how it was designd to work.

My argument is evident in the bible, we can see this when God sent an evil spirit 2 deceive Saul (1 Sam 16:23), also when demons asks permission God 2 test Jobs faith. Then their is this part in 2 Samuel chapter 24, where God 'incites' David to take census, but the repetition of the same event in 1 Chronicles 21:1 says, 'Satan caused David...' Which means that God can use Satan to fulfill his wishes.

This evidence clearly shows that presence of evil in the world is part of Gods design to balance things in nature...just the way he created light n darkness, pain n pleasure, flowers n thorns, birds n snakes, butterflies n scorpions,....

And if God absolutely had nothing to do with evil, then why call him

You cannot believe that God is ALL-GOOD and then claim that God is the origin of evil.

The angel, lucifer, was a good and beautiful and powerful angel. he chose to turn away from God and therein lies the mystery of iniquity.

And it is a mystery.

All things take place within God's Providence.

----> There are TWO aspects to the Will of God. (Positive and Passive).

1. Positive --- The Gracious Will of God, His good pleasure, what pleases Him.

2. Passive --- The Permissive Will of God, what He allows, including evil acts, to bring a greater good out of them, for the sake of those that love Him and are called according to His Purpose.

God bless you.