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GOD CREATED EVIL, Period!

Zeena

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*Originally Posted by martymonster*
If you remember correctly it was in fact Jesus that told Judas to go quickly and do what had to be done.

*Zeena*
That's not what Jesus said, you are changing the words;

*Originally Posted by martymonster *
Joh 13:26 Jesus therefore answereth, He it is, for whom I shall dip the sop, and give it him. So when he had dipped the sop, he taketh and giveth it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot.
And? Did Jesus specifically SAY that He is making this man murder Him? Or, rather, is He Prophesying?

Let me guess, you believe that all Prophecy is ordained to come true because God does the leg-work in the background?

Genesis 41:32
And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.

As you can see, this isn't always the case, as with dreams. :wave:

Now, I ask you, where did Jesus SAY that His murder was ordained OF God? NOT just BY God, but OF God.. IOW; That the FATHER crucified His Son! :blush:

Joh 13:27 And after the sop, then entered Satan into him. Jesus therefore saith unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
WHO was going to crucify Jesus? The devil or God? Jesus SPECIFICALLY said that the DEVIL was the one who was about to do it!

Mathew 26:24
The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

EXACTLY. How can you read that and get a different interpretation? Allow me to repost the passage from an easier to read translation (NIV)

6Jesus answered, "It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish." Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon. 27As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.

"What you are about to do, do quickly," Jesus told him, 28but no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him.
You SKIPPED this verse!

Matthew 26:25
Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.
 
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JagDragon

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Now, I ask you, where did Jesus SAY that His murder was ordained OF God? NOT just BY God, but OF God.. IOW; That the FATHER crucified His Son! :blush:

WHO was going to crucify Jesus? The devil or God? Jesus SPECIFICALLY said that the DEVIL was the one who was about to do it!

Err, your post just conflicted with itself, you're saying that God crucified Jesus, and then that Satan crucified him?

You SKIPPED this verse!

My bad, I was just re-posting the same thing as earlier, with a different translation. You didn't have a problem with the verse being skipped then...
 
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martymonster

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OK Zeena, just to clarify in case you feel the urge to accuse me of saying something I did not or believing something I do now and just to make it a bit simpler for you to understand.

God uses Christ to do good works for His purposes.

If Christ does something and it is the Fathers will then it is both of them who is responsible for it.

Likewise.

God uses Satan to do evil for Him for His purposes.

If Satan does something and it is the Fathers will then it is both of them who is responsible for it.

The same applies to both good and evil men and women.


For example.


Gen 50:19 And Joseph said unto them: 'Fear not; for am I in the place of God?
Gen 50:20 And as for you, ye meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.


Btw, please notice that I have underlined the word meant just in case you felt the urge to say that God allowed it to happen and them made the best of it anyway.

The above verse clearly does not say that.
 
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ittarter

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Yes, of course He did. Everything in the universe must have been created by God, albeit through proxy with us.
Proxy may work for responsibility. It does certainly NOT work with the act itself. You may be able to argue that God is (indirectly) responsible for evil. But to say that God created evil is simply a contradiction, because evil, by definition, is that which opposes God's will. God cannot will that which he doesn't will.

How would such a claim be preferable to your submission (as the only alternative) that "God makes accidents"?

I could believe that God did not mean to create some things, but that would be implying God makes accidents, and that He is not omniscient. Since He is omniscient, He knew, before He even created us, that we would do evil deeds, yet He did nothing to fix that! Thus the earth was made a sinful place. Why did that have to happen, why couldn't He just create us without sin and evil?
Divine omniscience of the future is an idea that is being widely debated these days, so I don't think we can simply take it for granted without describing the very specific framework under which we are operating.

e.g. Assuming that God knows the future, God is responsible for evil.

That sort of thing.

Your followup question, Why did God create humans in such a way that evil would result? is certainly very difficult to answer. Furthermore, in light of my earlier definition of evil, it is contradictorary that evil should exist at all. Getting rid of your rather pointless chronological qualifier (knowledge of the future), we may in fact put this into a simple and (I dare say) more poignant set of propositions:

1. God is omniscient (anything he wills to do, he does, since no power is greater than him, and thus nothing can stop him).
2. God is omnibenevolent (he wills the best possible existence/future for every creature in the universe).
3. Evil exists (evil being less than the best possible existence/future for every creature in the universe).

Logically, it is IMPOSSIBLE to assent to all three propositions simultaneously. And yet this is precisely what certain forms of Christianity claim.

I'd be interested to know if this is in sync with your train of thought. It seems to me that you are denying proposition 2. Is that correct?

Personally, I take this to be the dilemma of any absolutely monotheistic worldview.
 
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martymonster

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Just in case I get accused of building and entire doctrine around one scripture (it wouldn't be the first time) here's some more.


Isa 10:5 O Asshur, the rod of Mine anger, in whose hand as a staff is Mine indignation!
Isa 10:6 I do send him against an ungodly nation, and against the people of My wrath do I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.
Isa 10:7 Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy, and to cut off nations not a few.



Isa 10:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed His whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the arrogant heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his haughty looks.
Isa 10:13 For he hath said: by the strength of my hand I have done it, and by my wisdom, for I am prudent; in that I have removed the bounds of the peoples, and have robbed their treasures, and have brought down as one mighty the inhabitants;
Isa 10:14 And my hand hath found as a nest the riches of the peoples; and as one gathereth eggs that are forsaken, have I gathered all the earth; and there was none that moved the wing, or that opened the mouth, or chirped.
Isa 10:15 Should the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? Should the saw magnify itself against him that moveth it? as if a rod should move them that lift it up, or as if a staff should lift up him that is not wood.


Puts several nails in both the coffins of God using evil and freewill at once these verses.

Did I mention that I like them so much?
 
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ittarter

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Regarding the spirited (lol) debate between Zeena, JagDragon and Martymonster with respect to God's use of evil spirits to do his will:

If we take this into historical perpsective, it is widely agreed that the figure satan originally began as a servant of God to incite people to act destructively or against God's explicit commands. This figure is synonymous with the "evil spirit" that inspired David to take a census.

By the time of the New Testament, however, Satan operates independently of God's commands. At best, he serves God unwittingly, for example, in inciting Judas to betray Jesus, which God Jesus killed but also performed a critical step in bringing salvation to the world.

This is yet another example of a development in the religious and theological beliefs of the Jewish faith and explains why it is rather impossible to reconcile ALL the passages of scripture that are being cited in this thread.
 
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Zeena

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OK Zeena, just to clarify in case you feel the urge to accuse me of saying something I did not or believing something I do now and just to make it a bit simpler for you to understand.

God uses Christ to do good works for His purposes.

If Christ does something and it is the Fathers will then it is both of them who is responsible for it.

Likewise.

God uses Satan to do evil for Him for His purposes.

If Satan does something and it is the Fathers will then it is both of them who is responsible for it.

The same applies to both good and evil men and women.


For example.


Gen 50:19 And Joseph said unto them: 'Fear not; for am I in the place of God?
Gen 50:20 And as for you, ye meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Btw, please notice that I have underlined the word meant just in case you felt the urge to say that God allowed it to happen and them made the best of it anyway.

The above verse clearly does not say that.
That's exactly the case, even as you unknowingly pointed out earlier :wave:

Romans 9:22-24
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

God suffered their plans to go forward and seem to be fully executed; but then he put forth his hand and turned the whole to the utmost good. :wave:
 
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Zeena

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Err, your post just conflicted with itself, you're saying that God crucified Jesus,
I neither said, nor implied NO SUCH THING!

and then that Satan crucified him?
Answer this;
Am I not responsible for its actions?
He is responsible for the rebellion of Angel-Satan.
He is responsible for the fact that we sin at all.
--------------------------------
My bad, I was just re-posting the same thing as earlier, with a different translation. You didn't have a problem with the verse being skipped then...
I didn't notice that you skipped it previously.

This thread has offically degenerated from a discussion on whether or not God created evil, to whether He DOES evil.. :blush:
 
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martymonster

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Regarding the spirited (lol) debate between Zeena, JagDragon and Martymonster with respect to God's use of evil spirits to do his will:

If we take this into historical perpsective, it is widely agreed that the figure satan originally began as a servant of God to incite people to act destructively or against God's explicit commands. This figure equates to the "evil spirit" that inspired David to take a census.

By the time of the New Testament, however, Satan operates independently of God's commands. At best, he serves God unwittingly, for example, in inciting Judas to betray Jesus, which God Jesus killed but also performed a critical step in bringing salvation to the world.

This is yet another example of a development in the religious and theological beliefs of the Jewish faith and explains why it is rather impossible to reconcile ALL the passages of scripture that are being cited in this thread.


actually if Your refering to the whole Lucifer a beautiful arch Angel rebelling, that's a mere fable designed to take the creation of evil away from God.

Here is the verse from the Jewish publication society translation version (try saying that 10 time really fast).


Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, that didst cast lots over the nations!

Here's the literal translation.

Isa 14:12 Oh shining star, son of the morning, how you have fallen from the heavens! You weakening the nations, you are cut down to the ground.

The modern King James version.

Isa 14:12 How you are fallen from the heavens, O shining star, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations!

The Revised version.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O day star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst lay low the nations!

Young's literal translation.

Isa 14:12 How hast thou fallen from the heavens, O shining one, son of the dawn! Thou hast been cut down to earth, O weakener of nations.

Hebrew old testament.

Isa 14:12 איך נפלת משׁמים הילל בן־שׁחר נגדעת לארץ חולשׁ על־גוים׃

Just Kidding, I don't read Hebrew!

As you can see from the above translations there a more than a few translations that disagree with the original KJV translation of the word Lucifer.

If that is the only place that the so called name "Lucifer" appears in the bible then I'd say that that whole doctrine has no legs to stand on seeing as the one it was standing on has been kicked out from under it.

Then there's this verse that everyone say agrees with the so called Lucifer verse.

Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Since Christ uses the name "Satan" in this verse it can hardly have gone hand in hand with other verse anyway but now without it We can't very well build any sort of doctrine resembling the Lucifer doctrine now can We?

If the Lucifer doctrine falls so does the Satan as a scapegoat to take the fall for being the origin of evil doctrine as well. (pun intended)
 
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Zeena

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Since Christ uses the name "Satan" in this verse it can hardly have gone hand in hand with other verse anyway but now without it We can't very well build any sort of doctrine resembling the Lucifer doctrine now can We?
Rev 9:1,11
And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

If the Lucifer doctrine falls so does the Satan as a scapegoat to take the fall for being the origin of evil doctrine as well. (pun intended)
Luke 8:12
Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 6,14-15
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Matt 12:27
And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

Eph 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Eph 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

1 Cor 10:20-22
But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?

Some have proposed that Satan, the Devil, was created as an evil spirit rather than being created with free will and later falling from grace. The idea that Satan had no choice but to be evil is a most puzzling theory, since Jesus makes a plain statement about the future punishment of Satan and his angels (Matt. 25:41). There is no suggestion here that the evil angels and their leader are not equally guilty. But we have also a plain statement in I Timothy 3:6 that a young convert who succumbs to the temptation to become “puffed up” with pride falls into the condemnation of the devil, that is, he receives the same judgment which Satan received for his pride. This hardly suggests that Satan was created in a state of pride. How then could he have been judged, as Jesus says he has? “The ruler of this world has been judged” (John 16:11). If Satan was created evil, with no free will, how are we to understand that God curses him? Genesis 3:14: “Because you have done this, you are cursed above all cattle.” That he was a murderer from the beginning (John 8:44) or that he sins from the beginning (I John 3:8) need not imply that Satan had no choice, and thus no fall, and few will read those statements that way. The expression “from the beginning” must be handled with care. In I John 2:7 we read of a commandment which you had “from the beginning” (not the beginning of your life), and in 3:11 of a message heard “from the beginning.” The references to Satan in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 may be less certain than traditionally thought, but before they are dismissed, it must be shown that “cherub” (Ezek. 28:14) nowhere else applied to a man, applies only to the King of Tyre. Similarly in Isaiah 14, the “shining one, Star of the Dawn” could well refer both to the King of Babylon and Satan (rather in the manner that the Messianic references in the Psalms may apply to David and Christ). Satan is the one who energizes the King of Babylon, as he energizes also the man of sin (II Thess. 2:9). It is not unnatural for the Hebrews to think of an agent and the power lying behind him in very similar terms, even including both in a single description. I Timothy 3:6 remains the strongest evidence for Paul’s belief that a man can become inflated with pride just as Satan had. The parallel falls to the ground if Satan had been created proud! Paul’s observations about Satan being transformed into an angel of light strongly imply that he is an angel of darkness (II Cor. 11:14). The word here used by Paul, “transforms,” means the changing of the outward appearance, not the essential nature. Thus what appears as an angel of light must be in reality an angel of darkness.
Angels, Demons and Elohim
 
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ittarter

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actually if Your refering to the whole Lucifer a beautiful arch Angel rebelling, that's a mere fable designed to take the creation of evil away from God
I didn't refer to any original fall OR any being called Lucifer. I'm referring to Heb. ha'satan which occurs in such places as Job 1 and somewhere in 1 Chronicles (the parallel text of the place in 2 Samuel where David orders a census). So, unfortunately, EVERYTHING you said is irrelevant :( I don't interpret the Isaiah text of the Morning Star to have anything to do with the Satan character I'm talking about. That's an allegorical reading (belonging to readers centuries after the original audience) that hinders the historical development I'm trying to demonstrate.

If you reread my earlier post with the proper texts in mind, you'll hopefully see that what I'm saying is actually quite reasonable :)
 
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Zeena

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So, unfortunately, EVERYTHING you said is irrelevant :(
To you mayhaps, but not to me. :wave:

He's just denied there are even enemies of God.

1 Cor 15:32
If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

Matt 22:44
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
 
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martymonster

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That's exactly the case, even as you unknowingly pointed out earlier :wave:

Romans 9:22-24
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

God suffered their plans to go forward and seem to be fully executed; but then he put forth his hand and turned the whole to the utmost good. :wave:


Oh Zeena, I give you 10 points for tenacity but unfortunately God's word does not rise or fall on your tenacity.

I see what you would like the verse to be saying but it doesn't and this is easy to see when We have a look at the verse in context.


Rom 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,



But wait there's more!


Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.



Not to mention this.


Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
 
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JagDragon

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Care to actually provide an opinion? Follow the logic here:
  1. Everything that exists was created by God.
  2. God, in his omnipotence, has the power to create anything at all.
  3. God, in his omniscience, knows exactly the outcome of the future.
  4. Thus by creating things that were going to do evil, God himself created evil.

You can't just blow it off and say "But evil is just a lack of good" or something, because with a Perfect, Omnipotent Creator, there is only lack of good if he wishes there to be so. Everything in existence has passed through his mind (or if he wants it to it will), so either he's vindictive in creating evil, or he's just neglectful in looking up the future and taking responsibility for his actions.

I guess what I'm getting at is there is a logical inconsistency here: A perfect being who abhors evil should not be able to create it, but evil is very much here.

*Random other thought*
If God can see the definite future, that means that he can't change the future, but that's a violation of his omnipotency.
 
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Zeena

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Care to actually provide an opinion? Follow the logic here:
  1. Everything that exists was created by God.
  2. God, in his omnipotence, has the power to create anything at all.
  3. God, in his omniscience, knows exactly the outcome of the future.
  4. Thus by creating things that were going to do evil, God himself created evil.
Your thesis runs contrary to what has been revealed to us, and is merely personal speculation without a hint of Scriptural backing!

You can't just blow it off and say "But evil is just a lack of good" or something, because with a Perfect, Omnipotent Creator, there is only lack of good if he wishes there to be so. Everything in existence has passed through his mind (or if he wants it to it will), so either he's vindictive in creating evil, or he's just neglectful in looking up the future and taking responsibility for his actions.

I guess what I'm getting at is there is a logical inconsistency here: A perfect being who abhors evil should not be able to create it, but evil is very much here.
Adam was not created evil, but VERY GOOD.

Adam was not created with sin in him, yet, he sinned!

*Random other thought*
If God can see the definite future, that means that he can't change the future, but that's a violation of his omnipotency.
Yea, and what other attributes of God are you set to attack?

Let's see, so far you've downright violated His Justice and Righteousness, the Love He displayed in sending Christ is now the love for demons to torture Him and now you come against His Omnipotence..

Smooth real smooth!

Isaiah 10:3
What will you do on the day of reckoning, when disaster comes from afar? To whom will you run for help? Where will you leave your riches?
 
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ittarter

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To you mayhaps, but not to me. :wave:

He's just denied there are even enemies of God.
I meant, irrelevant to my argument. Not irrelevant generally.

He's just spouting a Christian version of monism. I guess it ultimately results in the denial of proposition 3, that evil exists at all. Evil is an illusion, merely one of God's tools to reach a higher good. Reminds me of scientology/Christian science, I forget which. Also the Baha'i religion. Also a lot of eastern religion. It's definitely a thought that is totally foreign to the New Testament and a misrepresentation of the Old Testament.
 
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JagDragon

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Your thesis runs contrary to what has been revealed to us, and is merely personal speculation without a hint of Scriptural backing!

Well, I thought that those few postulates were widely held enough for me to not look up the verses, but as you wish, I'll start looking some stuff up.

Adam was not created evil, but VERY GOOD.

Adam was not created with sin in him, yet, he sinned!

Then how did he sin? If he was very good, then he cannot have sinned. Which means that God did not create him "Very Good", which is a violation of the scriptures. Which leads me to yet another nonsensical dead end.

Yea, and what other attributes of God are you set to attack?

As many as I need to until I find answers which explain this logical inconsistency. I'm not afraid of attacking God to find answers, I don't think that God would want me to put my trust in Him if I was unsure. I think (and this is purely speculation) that God would want me to come to him satisfied with the scriptures, and not following in blind faith.

Let's see, so far you've downright violated His Justice and Righteousness, the Love He displayed in sending Christ is now the love for demons to torture Him and now you come against His Omnipotence..

I'm sorry if my method of debate seems like I am attacking God the whole time, really this is just a hypothetical so calm down a bit...

Isaiah 10:3
What will you do on the day of reckoning, when disaster comes from afar? To whom will you run for help? Where will you leave your riches?

With Jesus.


You seem so scared of offending God that you will not have an open discussion about this - any time I (or someone else) makes some sort of hypothetical statement, mostly to poke holes in someone's logic, you come up against us raging about "What will I do on the day of reckoning?"

Can we just have some sensible, open discussion?
 
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martymonster

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To you mayhaps, but not to me. :wave:

He's just denied there are even enemies of God.

1 Cor 15:32
If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

Matt 22:44
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.


You do realize that the word angel just means messenger so an angel can be either a man or an angel being right?

Not to mention that if we are to follow you line umm "reasoning" then there would be no adversaries because they are all in Hell already!

Also show me where I said there a no enemies of God?

Nowhere that's where, but you would like to insinuate that I did so could have grounds to accuse me.

Actually it is you that is saying that God has no enemies by quoting verses to make it look like a bunch of angelic beings got chucked out of heaven and are now in Hell.

You need to check the verses you quote more carefully from now on!
 
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