Genesis for Normal People

[BNR32FAN]

Why would the sumerian kings list give long ages of kings if that's not actually how long they had lived?

How could they have lived that long if all nations of men came from Adam? People lie, always have and always will. Where do you think all the pagan religions came from?

 

[Job 33:6]

Answering a question with a question is not even cute.

Just trying to stay on topic here.

 

[Job 33:6]

How could they have lived that long if all nations of men came from Adam? People lie, always have and always will. Where do you think all the pagan religions came from?

How do we know that they lied? What if they did actually live that long? As their records suggest.

 

[BNR32FAN]

How do we know that they lied? What if they did actually live that long? As their records suggest.

Because according to the genealogy records in the Bible the earth is only just over 6,000 years old.

 

[Job 33:6]

Because according to the genealogy records in the Bible the earth is only just over 6,000 years old.

So the Bible and the Sumerian kings list (which predates the Bible) both suggest that people lived hundreds of years and beyond. But the Sumerian kings list must be wrong and the kings couldn't have lived thousands of years because the Bible says that people only lived to be hundreds.

There's nothing else unreasonable about the idea that people might live thousands of years. Rather the only issue is that scripture says that they only lived hundreds.

And beyond that, we aren't even sure why the sumerian kings list suggests that kings lived thousands of years. There's no rationale, just a flat out irrational lie perhaps by Satan or other demons and fallen angels.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So the Bible and the Sumerian kings list (which predates the Bible) both suggest that people lived hundreds of years and beyond. But the Sumerian kings list must be wrong and the kings couldn't have lived thousands of years because the Bible says that people only lived to be hundreds.

No the Bible says that the earth is just over 6,000 years old from creation to now. I didn’t say anything about the Bible saying people lived for hundreds of years. Obviously if the earth is only 6,000 years old then the Sumerians couldn’t have lived for thousands of years. There’s roughly 4,000 years from creation to Christ’s birth and another 2,022 years after that.

 

[AV1611VET]

No the Bible says that the earth is just over 6,000 years old from creation to now. I didn’t say anything about the Bible saying people lived for hundreds of years. Obviously if the earth is only 6,000 years old then the Sumerians couldn’t have lived for thousands of years. There’s roughly 4,000 years from creation to Christ’s birth and another 2,022 years after that.

I find it ironic that someone, with a Bible verse as his name, wants us to give equal airtime to another writing.

And one that blatantly contradicts the Bible at that.

As if science isn't bad enough, do we now have to give as much credence to other writings?

 

[BNR32FAN]

I find it ironic that someone, with a Bible verse as his name, wants us to give equal airtime to another writing.

And one that blatantly contradicts the Bible at that.

As if science isn't bad enough, do we now have to give as much credence to other writings?

We all learn to walk as we stumble brother.

 

[AV1611VET]

We all learn to walk as we stumble brother.

I suppose.

 

[SelfSim]

I suppose.

.. and therein lies the problem ..

 

[Astrid]

Just trying to stay on topic here.

Excuses are not cute either

 

[Job 33:6]

I find it ironic that someone, with a Bible verse as his name, wants us to give equal airtime to another writing.

And one that blatantly contradicts the Bible at that.

As if science isn't bad enough, do we now have to give as much credence to other writings?

We have to ask these questions of course, in light of various interpretations of scripture. St. Augustine for example, did not view Yom as meaning literal days.

If St Augustine were correct, it would align with these circumstances in which various cultures used grand ages to signify importance of individuals, much like the Sumerian Kings. It would simultaneously eliminate questions over how people were able to live hundreds or even tens of thousands of years.

If St Augustine were correct.

 

[hedrick]

By telling us Genesis is not history!?

I haven’t seen the video, but I have read the book by the same title by the same author. It’s a kind of commentary on Genesis, looking at the various stories in it against the background of the culture at the time and how it fits in with the rest of the Bible. The usual requirement for linking to a recording is that you include a summary of what it says. But that really hard with something that looks at the whole contents of Genesis. It’s true that the author doesn’t think the earth was created in seven days, but focusing on that and related things misses the point. They are about what the authors likely saw as the points of the various stories in it.

(Incidentally, I use “stories” because Genesis has accounts of lots of different episodes, and “story” is the most obvious term to use.)

I’ve read a lot about Genesis, but I found some of their ideas interesting. One is an observation about the six days of creation. They occur in two sets of three. Each of the first three is making a place for the corresponding item in the secon three. E.g on the first day light and darkness are separated. On the fourth they become the sun and moon. That’s just one example. I found it fairly interesting.

Enns’ point in many of his books is to look at what the authors of various parts of the Bible are trying to say, rather than trying to pull it into modern arguments over evolution or later theology.

 

[BNR32FAN]

We have to ask these questions of course, in light of various interpretations of scripture. St. Augustine for example, did not view Yom as meaning literal days.

If St Augustine were correct, it would align with these circumstances in which various cultures used grand ages to signify importance of individuals, much like the Sumerian Kings. It would simultaneously eliminate questions over how people were able to live hundreds or even tens of thousands of years.

If St Augustine were correct.

On the surface that appears to solve the problem with the creation account but how does that theory stand up to the rest of the Old Testament where the word is used hundreds of times in reference to a 24 hour period or a 7 day week? That theory just isn’t supported by the use of the word throughout the Old Testament.

 

[AV1611VET]

I’ve read a lot about Genesis, but I found some of their ideas interesting. One is an observation about the six days of creation. They occur in two sets of three. Each of the first three is making a place for the corresponding item in the secon three. E.g on the first day light and darkness are separated. On the fourth they become the sun and moon. That’s just one example. I found it fairly interesting.

Ya ... I believe that's called the Framework Hypothesis

I subscribe to it myself.

It basically says that, in the first three days, God created the fields; and in the next three days, He populated those fields.

 

[Job 33:6]

On the surface that appears to solve the problem with the creation account but how does that theory stand up to the rest of the Old Testament where the word is used hundreds of times in reference to a 24 hour period or a 7 day week? That theory just isn’t supported by the use of the word throughout the Old Testament.

St.Augustine's interpretation would demonstrate that the original creation days were not of a 24 hour period. The interpretation wouldn't need to apply anywhere else and I don't think he ever suggested that it did.

To be fair, days prior to the existence of the sun and before the universe even existed, would presumably be different than days as we think of them with the earth rotating and sun shining on us for 24 hours.

There was one part in the video series where the author suggests that we try to understand the cultural context behind the authors point of view.

Would it be mere coincidence that the sumerian kings list happens to also describe people who live incredibly long ages? And scripture happens to be literally saying that Adam lived over 900 years and all other writings that suggested people lived similar ages is automatically wrong?

Or, perhaps the ancient Hebrews and the sumerians held some similar cultural influences and therefore wrote about people who lived incredible ages for similar reasons, though perhaps people didn't actually live that long.

The author points out the word "cubit" in the OT. Noting that there isn't anything particularly divine about a cubit. It's not like some God ordained form of measurement. Rather, it's an aspect of the culture of the original authors moving into scripture.

 

[Job 33:6]

I haven’t seen the video, but I have read the book by the same title by the same author. It’s a kind of commentary on Genesis, looking at the various stories in it against the background of the culture at the time and how it fits in with the rest of the Bible. The usual requirement for linking to a recording is that you include a summary of what it says. But that really hard with something that looks at the whole contents of Genesis. It’s true that the author doesn’t think the earth was created in seven days, but focusing on that and related things misses the point. They are about what the authors likely saw as the points of the various stories in it.

(Incidentally, I use “stories” because Genesis has accounts of lots of different episodes, and “story” is the most obvious term to use.)

I’ve read a lot about Genesis, but I found some of their ideas interesting. One is an observation about the six days of creation. They occur in two sets of three. Each of the first three is making a place for the corresponding item in the secon three. E.g on the first day light and darkness are separated. On the fourth they become the sun and moon. That’s just one example. I found it fairly interesting.

Enns’ point in many of his books is to look at what the authors of various parts of the Bible are trying to say, rather than trying to pull it into modern arguments over evolution or later theology.

I was surprised regarding the framework view, at how it aligns with the term tohu bohu. Where space is made, and then space is filled. Without form, tohu, form is brought about in days 1-3, then the void, bohu, is filled, days 4-6.

 

[Job 33:6]

“and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:26‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

@BNR32FAN and @AV1611VET
What do you think about the idea that, verses throughout scripture describe the raqia as being solid, which aligns with the views of others of the ancient near east?

For example, in Genesis, the raqia has windows which open to release flood waters, then the windows close and restrain the flood waters at the end of the flood.

If not a solid structure in accordance with beliefs of other ancient near east cultures, what would these verses mean?

 

[AV1611VET]

If not a solid structure in accordance with beliefs of other ancient near east cultures, what would these verses mean?

It means Satan is dictating the show.

Stay away from "other near east" cultural teachings.

They got started by Nimrod, who started out on God's side, but then backslid and went and built an empire so evil, the Antichrist will resurrect it during the Tribulation.

The fact of the matter is, God's people were to take the Gospel to the East -- not the other way around.

Even today, starting mainly around the 1960's, it was considered chic to have a guru on campus to teach us the "ways of the initiated."

There's nothing new about the New Age Movement.

 

[BNR32FAN]

@BNR32FAN and @AV1611VET
What do you think about the idea that, verses throughout scripture describe the raqia as being solid, which aligns with the views of others of the ancient near east?

For example, in Genesis, the raqia has windows which open to release flood waters, then the windows close and restrain the flood waters at the end of the flood.

If not a solid structure in accordance with beliefs of other ancient near east cultures, what would these verses mean?

View attachment 317806

Where do you find this in Genesis? I’m not familiar with that verse.