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Genesis for Normal People

Mr Laurier

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Because according to the genealogy records in the Bible the earth is only just over 6,000 years old.
And?
What makes the bible any more valid than the eddas, or the Vedas?
 
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gaara4158

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Question:

In inkblot tests, how are psychiatrists trained to score people who consistently see Christian symbols?

Answer: "abnormal"
Psychiatrists are not trained to give the Rorschach test serious weight.
 
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Job 33:6

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@BNR32FAN and @AV1611VET
What do you think about the idea that, verses throughout scripture describe the raqia as being solid, which aligns with the views of others of the ancient near east?

For example, in Genesis, the raqia has windows which open to release flood waters, then the windows close and restrain the flood waters at the end of the flood.

Where do you find this in Genesis? I’m not familiar with that verse.

OpenBible.info

What does the Bible say about
Firmament

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100 Bible Verses about
Firmament


Genesis 1:6
And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”

Genesis 1:14 ESV
  • And God said, “Let there be lights in (as in, inside) the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years,

Job 37:18 ESV / 36 helpful votes
Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a cast metal mirror?

Genesis 1:20 ESV / 34 helpful votes
And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the [face of the] expanse of the heavens.”


Psalm 148:4 ESV / 25 helpful votes
Praise him, you highest heavens, and you waters above the heavens!

Isaiah 40:22 ESV / 22 helpful votes
It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;

Genesis 7:11 ESV / 20 helpful votes
In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens [often translated as flood gates] were opened.

1 Chronicles 16:30 ESV / 19 helpful votes
Tremble before him, all the earth; yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved.

Job 22:14 ESV / 17 helpful votes
Thick clouds veil him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the vault of heaven.’

Amos 9:6 ESV / 16 helpful votes
Who builds his upper chambers in the heavens and founds his vault upon the earth; who calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out upon the surface of the earth— the Lord is his name.

Ezekiel 10:1 ESV / 16 helpful votes
Then I looked, and behold, on the expanse [as in, above the expanse] that was over the heads of the cherubim there appeared above them something like a sapphire, in appearance like a throne.

Proverbs 8:27 ESV / 16 helpful votes
When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,

Exodus 24:10 ESV / 16 helpful votes
And they saw the God of Israel. There was under his feet as it were a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.

Psalm 19:4 ESV / 15 helpful votes
Their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun,

Ezekiel 1:22 ESV / 14 helpful votes
Over the heads of the living creatures there was the likeness of an expanse, shining like awe-inspiring crystal, spread out above their heads.

Jeremiah 51:16 ESV / 13 helpful votes
When he utters his voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth. He makes lightning for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.

Ezekiel 1:26 ESV / 10 helpful votes
And above the expanse over their heads there was the likeness of a throne, in appearance like sapphire; and seated above the likeness of a throne was a likeness with a human appearance.

Psalm 93:1 ESV / 10 helpful votes
The Lord reigns; he is robed in majesty; the Lord is robed; he has put on strength as his belt. Yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved.

Psalm 104:2 ESV / 9 helpful votes
Covering yourself with light as with a garment, stretching out the heavens like a tent.


Ezekiel 1:25 ESV / 8 helpful votes
And there came a voice from above the expanse over their heads. When they stood still, they let down their wings.

Malachi 3:10 ESV / 7 helpful votes
Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need.

Isaiah 24:18 ESV / 7 helpful votes
He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit, and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.

Matthew 24:29 ESV / 6 helpful votes
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

Daniel 4:10-11 ESV / 6 helpful votes
The visions of my head as I lay in bed were these: I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth, and its height was great. The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth.

Job 26:11 ESV / 6 helpful votes
The pillars of heaven tremble and are astounded at his rebuke.

Exodus 24:9-11 ESV / 6 helpful votes
Then Moses and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel went up, and they saw the God of Israel. There was under his feet as it were a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness. And he did not lay his hand on the chief men of the people of Israel; they beheld God, and ate and drank.

Genesis 8:2 ESV / 6 helpful votes
The fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained [meaning that the closed windows held back and restrained the flood waters]

Revelation 21:3 ESV / 5 helpful votes
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.

Jeremiah 10:12-13 ESV / 4 helpful votes
It is he who made the earth by his power, who established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding stretched out the heavens. When he utters his voice, there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth. He makes lightning for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.

Genesis 1:14-15 ESV / 4 helpful votes
And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so.

Revelation 1:1 ESV / 3 helpful votes
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,



Revelation 4:6 ESV / 2 helpful votes
And before the throne there was as it were a sea of glass, like crystal. And around the throne, on each side of the throne, are four living creatures, full of eyes in front and behind:

Isaiah 44:24 ESV / 2 helpful votes
Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,

Job 38:22-26 ESV / 2 helpful votes
“Have you entered the storehouses of the snow, or have you seen the storehouses of the hail, which I have reserved for the time of trouble, for the day of battle and war? What is the way to the place where the light is distributed, or where the east wind is scattered upon the earth? “Who has cleft a channel for the torrents of rain and a way for the thunderbolt, to bring rain on a land where no man is, on the desert in which there is no man,

2 Samuel 22:8 ESV / 2 helpful votes
“Then the earth reeled and rocked; the foundations of the heavens trembled and quaked, because he was angry.

So in the above verses, we see adjectives coming from the books of Ezekiel, Exodus, Job, Genesis, Psalm, Revelation, Jeremiah etc.

And the adjectives we see are things like:
"Molten metal"
"Crystal"
"Pavement"
"Saphire" (which is a blue mineral or crystal)
"Frozen water/ice"
"Glass"
"Stone"
Etc.

Literally every adjective in the OT for the raqia, is one of a solid nature.

Then beyond that, in Ezekiel people hear and see God, in human form, above the expanse. So we know it's not equivalent to space, lest people have telescopes and somehow hear sound through emptiness where sound does not travel:
Screenshot_20220505-052343~2.png


We also see descriptions such as the raqia having windows that open to let flood waters through, and then close and restrain water at the end of a flood, also indicating a solid nature. How else would windows close and hold back water if they were not solid?

Screenshot_20220422-120628~2.png



We also see descriptions such as "store houses" and the stars are "in", as in inside, the raqia, stuck in it like pins in a cork board. And birds fly across the face of the raqia, much like the spirit hovered across the face of the deep. Indicating the motion across the face of something that is flat.
Screenshot_20220505-051528~2.png


And then beyond that, this is exactly what every other culture of the time believed, a solid dome with stars in it overhead just outside of reach, and this is what The sky looks like in general when you just go outside and look up, it looks like half of a bowl over our heads. So it intuitively makes sense that this is what the authors of Genesis and other books would have meant.

Screenshot_20220422-120713~2.png




So if this weren't what was meant in descriptions of the raqia, then what does it mean if the windows close and restrained the water after the flood? For people who don't believe in the ANE interpretation of the OT, what are those opening and closing windows and how are they restraining water?
 
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AV1611VET

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So if this weren't what was meant in descriptions of the raqia, then what does it mean if the windows close and restrained the water after the flood? For people who don't believe in the ANE interpretation of the OT, what are those opening and closing windows and how are they restraining water?
These "windows of heaven" are interesting.

I believe they are wormholes between the spiritual world and the physical world.

They serve as an interface between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven.

God used them during the Flood.

Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Genesis 8:2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;


Jacob sees one as a ladder, not a window.

Genesis 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

Sound can pass through them as well, and travel across the entire universe in a split second.

Exodus 2:23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.
24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.


Getting back to the Flood, we know that Heaven proper has a great crystal sea.

Revelation 4:6a And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal:

Revelation 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.


It would be nothing then for God to simply open a few portals (or wormholes) between the spiritual world and the physical world and allow some of this water to rain on the earth for awhile.

Easy peasey!
 
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Hans Blaster

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Is it a normal to find that boring?

Maybe I'm not normal then, but I also found it boring. Boring presentation of a boring book on a boring text. I'm not sure why
"normal people" would need Genesis. Can't say I had any need for it.
 
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BNR32FAN

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@BNR32FAN and @AV1611VET
What do you think about the idea that, verses throughout scripture describe the raqia as being solid, which aligns with the views of others of the ancient near east?

For example, in Genesis, the raqia has windows which open to release flood waters, then the windows close and restrain the flood waters at the end of the flood.



OpenBible.info

What does the Bible say about
Firmament

A ‣ B ‣ C ‣ D ‣ E ‣ F ‣ G ‣ H ‣ I ‣ J ‣ K ‣ L ‣ M ‣ N ‣ O ‣ P ‣ Q ‣ R ‣ S ‣ T ‣ U ‣ V ‣ W ‣ Y ‣ Z

100 Bible Verses about
Firmament


Genesis 1:6
And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”

Genesis 1:14 ESV
  • And God said, “Let there be lights in (as in, inside) the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years,

Job 37:18 ESV / 36 helpful votes
Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a cast metal mirror?

Genesis 1:20 ESV / 34 helpful votes
And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the [face of the] expanse of the heavens.”


Psalm 148:4 ESV / 25 helpful votes
Praise him, you highest heavens, and you waters above the heavens!

Isaiah 40:22 ESV / 22 helpful votes
It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;

Genesis 7:11 ESV / 20 helpful votes
In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens [often translated as flood gates] were opened.

1 Chronicles 16:30 ESV / 19 helpful votes
Tremble before him, all the earth; yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved.

Job 22:14 ESV / 17 helpful votes
Thick clouds veil him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the vault of heaven.’

Amos 9:6 ESV / 16 helpful votes
Who builds his upper chambers in the heavens and founds his vault upon the earth; who calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out upon the surface of the earth— the Lord is his name.

Ezekiel 10:1 ESV / 16 helpful votes
Then I looked, and behold, on the expanse [as in, above the expanse] that was over the heads of the cherubim there appeared above them something like a sapphire, in appearance like a throne.

Proverbs 8:27 ESV / 16 helpful votes
When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,

Exodus 24:10 ESV / 16 helpful votes
And they saw the God of Israel. There was under his feet as it were a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.

Psalm 19:4 ESV / 15 helpful votes
Their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun,

Ezekiel 1:22 ESV / 14 helpful votes
Over the heads of the living creatures there was the likeness of an expanse, shining like awe-inspiring crystal, spread out above their heads.

Jeremiah 51:16 ESV / 13 helpful votes
When he utters his voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth. He makes lightning for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.

Ezekiel 1:26 ESV / 10 helpful votes
And above the expanse over their heads there was the likeness of a throne, in appearance like sapphire; and seated above the likeness of a throne was a likeness with a human appearance.

Psalm 93:1 ESV / 10 helpful votes
The Lord reigns; he is robed in majesty; the Lord is robed; he has put on strength as his belt. Yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved.

Psalm 104:2 ESV / 9 helpful votes
Covering yourself with light as with a garment, stretching out the heavens like a tent.


Ezekiel 1:25 ESV / 8 helpful votes
And there came a voice from above the expanse over their heads. When they stood still, they let down their wings.

Malachi 3:10 ESV / 7 helpful votes
Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need.

Isaiah 24:18 ESV / 7 helpful votes
He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit, and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.

Matthew 24:29 ESV / 6 helpful votes
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

Daniel 4:10-11 ESV / 6 helpful votes
The visions of my head as I lay in bed were these: I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth, and its height was great. The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth.

Job 26:11 ESV / 6 helpful votes
The pillars of heaven tremble and are astounded at his rebuke.

Exodus 24:9-11 ESV / 6 helpful votes
Then Moses and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel went up, and they saw the God of Israel. There was under his feet as it were a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness. And he did not lay his hand on the chief men of the people of Israel; they beheld God, and ate and drank.

Genesis 8:2 ESV / 6 helpful votes
The fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained [meaning that the closed windows held back and restrained the flood waters]

Revelation 21:3 ESV / 5 helpful votes
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.

Jeremiah 10:12-13 ESV / 4 helpful votes
It is he who made the earth by his power, who established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding stretched out the heavens. When he utters his voice, there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth. He makes lightning for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.

Genesis 1:14-15 ESV / 4 helpful votes
And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so.

Revelation 1:1 ESV / 3 helpful votes
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,



Revelation 4:6 ESV / 2 helpful votes
And before the throne there was as it were a sea of glass, like crystal. And around the throne, on each side of the throne, are four living creatures, full of eyes in front and behind:

Isaiah 44:24 ESV / 2 helpful votes
Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,

Job 38:22-26 ESV / 2 helpful votes
“Have you entered the storehouses of the snow, or have you seen the storehouses of the hail, which I have reserved for the time of trouble, for the day of battle and war? What is the way to the place where the light is distributed, or where the east wind is scattered upon the earth? “Who has cleft a channel for the torrents of rain and a way for the thunderbolt, to bring rain on a land where no man is, on the desert in which there is no man,

2 Samuel 22:8 ESV / 2 helpful votes
“Then the earth reeled and rocked; the foundations of the heavens trembled and quaked, because he was angry.

So in the above verses, we see adjectives coming from the books of Ezekiel, Exodus, Job, Genesis, Psalm, Revelation, Jeremiah etc.

And the adjectives we see are things like:
"Molten metal"
"Crystal"
"Pavement"
"Saphire" (which is a blue mineral or crystal)
"Frozen water/ice"
"Glass"
"Stone"
Etc.

Literally every adjective in the OT for the raqia, is one of a solid nature.

Then beyond that, in Ezekiel people hear and see God, in human form, above the expanse. So we know it's not equivalent to space, lest people have telescopes and somehow hear sound through emptiness where sound does not travel:
View attachment 317952

We also see descriptions such as the raqia having windows that open to let flood waters through, and then close and restrain water at the end of a flood, also indicating a solid nature. How else would windows close and hold back water if they were not solid?

View attachment 317953


We also see descriptions such as "store houses" and the stars are "in", as in inside, the raqia, stuck in it like pins in a cork board. And birds fly across the face of the raqia, much like the spirit hovered across the face of the deep. Indicating the motion across the face of something that is flat.
View attachment 317954

And then beyond that, this is exactly what every other culture of the time believed, a solid dome with stars in it overhead just outside of reach, and this is what The sky looks like in general when you just go outside and look up, it looks like half of a bowl over our heads. So it intuitively makes sense that this is what the authors of Genesis and other books would have meant.

View attachment 317955



So if this weren't what was meant in descriptions of the raqia, then what does it mean if the windows close and restrained the water after the flood? For people who don't believe in the ANE interpretation of the OT, what are those opening and closing windows and how are they restraining water?

I think it’s a figure of speech.
 
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Mr Laurier

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Welcome to CF where people believe in the Bible.
You poor thing. You have never seen a bible, and so must rely on blind belief to imagine that such a thing can exist.
Having personally held a bible in my hands, I have no need to believe in the bible. I know it exists.
 
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BNR32FAN

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You poor thing. You have never seen a bible, and so must rely on blind belief to imagine that such a thing can exist.
Having personally held a bible in my hands, I have no need to believe in the bible. I know it exists.

A Bible is completely useless just holding it in your hands, you have to actually open it and read it to get anything from it.
 
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Mr Laurier

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A Bible is completely useless just holding it in your hands, you have to actually open it and read it to get anything from it.
Indeed.
And I got the realization that I was being lied at by long dead beduins
 
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AV1611VET

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Indeed.
And I got the realization that I was being lied at by long dead beduins
How would you know this?

To what are you comparing these "lies" against?
 
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BNR32FAN

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I might take the position here by claiming that the real 'truth' lies in the images being produced by the Webb telescope.
Does that answer such a question?

So the universe couldn’t have been created 6,000 years ago because of the light coming from these objects? How do you know that the people making this claim haven’t made a mistake?
 
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