Genesis for Normal People

[AV1611VET]

So the universe couldn’t have been created 6,000 years ago because of the light coming from these objects? How do you know that the people making this claim haven’t made a mistake?

It's simple physics.

Light from an object took 20,000 years to reach Earth, and we know that that object is 20,000 light years out because, if you touch the tip of your nose with your finger, you will see two fingers.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It's simple physics.

Light from an object took 20,000 years to reach Earth, and we know that that object is 20,000 light years out because, if you touch the tip of your nose with your finger, you will see two fingers.

Yeah who was timing the light as it took 20,000 years to get here? How did they know it was coming in the first place?

 

[AV1611VET]

Yeah who was timing the light as it took 20,000 years to get here? How did they know it was coming in the first place?

Again, it's simple physics.

Since the present is key to the past ( ), that means the speed of light was a constant way back then.

And they knew it was coming back then because ... well ... it got here!

 

[BNR32FAN]

Again, it's simple physics.

Since the present is key to the past ( ), that means the speed of light was a constant way back then.

And they knew it was coming back then because ... well ... it got here!

Yeah but that still doesn’t explain how anyone knew when it began traveling here since nobody could see it yet.

 

[SelfSim]

Yeah but that still doesn’t explain how anyone knew when it began traveling here since nobody could see it yet.

When one understands well tested objective theories/physical laws and the principles of logic, one can easily know that.

 

[AV1611VET]

When one understands well tested objective theories/physical laws and the principles of logic, one can easily know that.

Yup.

Understanding them is one thing, using them wisely is another.

 

[Mr Laurier]

How would you know this?

Well you see, being a higher primate, I have a complex brain. This allows me to think.

To what are you comparing these "lies" against?

Observable reality

 

[Mr Laurier]

What made you realize you were being lied to?

The ability to observe reality

 

[BNR32FAN]

When one understands well tested objective theories/physical laws and the principles of logic, one can easily know that.

I think if you did understand all that as well as you claim to you might’ve just answered my question to prove it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The ability to observe reality

Yeah I did that for the first 38 years of my life and it didn’t work out as well as it has after coming to Christ but I don’t expect you would know anything about that. Contemplation is one thing but personal experience always trumps rationalism but hey whatever works for ya it’s not as if I’m going to atheist websites trolling people trying to get them to see things my way. To each his own.

 

[SelfSim]

I think if you did understand all that as well as you claim to you might’ve just answered my question to prove it.

I made no such claim.
I have nothing to prove.

 

[SelfSim]

Yeah I did that for the first 38 years of my life and it didn’t work out as well as it has after coming to Christ but I don’t expect you would know anything about that. Contemplation is one thing but personal experience always trumps rationalism but hey whatever works for ya it’s not as if I’m going to atheist websites trolling people trying to get them to see things my way. To each his own.

What makes you think you have sole, exclusive access to 'personal experience' beyond rationally thinking people who have their own personal experiences?

 

[BNR32FAN]

What makes you think you have sole, exclusive access to 'personal experience' beyond rationally thinking people who have their own personal experiences?

Are you implying that Mr Laurier had personal experiences with Christ?

 

[SelfSim]

Are you implying that Mr Laurier had personal experiences with Christ?

No .. and I have no idea as to why you would even ask me that(?)

 

[Mr Laurier]

Yeah I did that for the first 38 years of my life and it didn’t work out as well as it has after coming to Christ but I don’t expect you would know anything about that. Contemplation is one thing but personal experience always trumps rationalism but hey whatever works for ya it’s not as if I’m going to atheist websites trolling people trying to get them to see things my way. To each his own.

It has worked out quite well for me. I was an active christian for 15 years of my life.
Only deconverting at age 21, when the sheer weight of evidence became too overwhelming to ignore. I nevertheless could not accept a life without gods.
I spent the next decade and a half, trying to justify my wishful thinking, that there had to be a god of some sort.
Eventually I was able to accept that all gods were equally absurd. And this led to my arriving at atheism.

So yes, I agree, Personal experience matters. And always beats rationalization.
And I've never gone to any website to engage in trolling either. It a silly and childish behaviour. Why waste time on such nonsense...

 

[Mr Laurier]

Are you implying that Mr Laurier had personal experiences with Christ?

Ex christian here.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Ex christian here.

Though "personal experiences with Christ" are certainly not a requirement to be a Christian. I was active for 20 years and not once ever had any such experience with Christ, and, to my knowledge, none of the people (my family) whose religious history I know best have ever claimed to have had such experiences. (I could easily see them not wanting to share that fact though if they did.)

Scene (propagation of belief):

MOM: Jesus is our Lord and Savior. Do you understand?

[off scene voice]: Amen!

KID [looks around pensively as adults gently nod and hesitantly says]: Okay, Mom.

 

[AV1611VET]

I was active for 20 years and not once ever had any such experience with Christ,

What were you expecting?

To walk on water?

 

[Mr Laurier]

Though "personal experiences with Christ" are certainly not a requirement to be a Christian. I was active for 20 years and not once ever had any such experience with Christ, and, to my knowledge, none of the people (my family) whose religious history I know best have ever claimed to have had such experiences. (I could easily see them not wanting to share that fact though if they did.)

Scene (propagation of belief):

MOM: Jesus is our Lord and Savior. Do you understand?

[off scene voice]: Amen!

KID [looks around pensively as adults gently nod and hesitantly says]: Okay, Mom.

Indeed.
And with no other religious ideas, what chance does a child have?

 

[Hans Blaster]

What were you expecting?

To walk on water?

I wasn't expecting anything. There were no expectations of said experiences in our church community. In fact there was rather the opposite. Those claiming to have heard from God were looked askance at.

And I did (occasionally) walk on water then.