Galatians 3 - shows New Covenant Gospel is before Sinai

[BobRyan]

It is. I did a study on Galatians 3 here, if you're interested: Paul on the Law: Galatians 3

Shabbat shalom, and happy Sukkot.

Thanks I like that post... why did you post it under the "controversial section" instead of "Sabbath and the Law"?

 

[HARK!]

Thanks I like that post... why did you post it under the "controversial section" instead of "Sabbath and the Law"?

That thread is a small part of an extended series. That series is posted throughout the forums. If you follow the links at the beginning and end of that OP; you can forward or reverse through the series.

Enjoy.

 

[BobRyan]

Gal 03 not being ignored by me.

 

[Cribstyl]

Ten Commandments begin in Eden - according to the Bible - and "Baptist Confession of Faith" and "Westminster Confession of Faith" and D.L. Moody and many others.

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Galatians 3
18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

What "inheritance"? -- Hebrews 11 - "New Jerusalem" heavenly Canaan.
Heb 11
9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
...
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

Wow, A flim-flam move in broad daylight. Anyone who reads Gal 3 can know the truth.
The inheritance is "the promise" (In thy seed (Jesus) all the nations of the world shall be blessed)
Gal 3:16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.
Gal 3:17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.
Gal 3:18For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.
The law came 430yrs after the promise. Do the math sir. How could the law come in Eden if the promise to Abraham was over 2000yrs after the law?

The Gospel/ The Covenant / The promise --

=============== why the law written on stone?
Transgression was “Before” Sinai . –

Gal 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

It was added because of transgressions, (that were before Sinai) Gal 3:19
“Where there is no Law neither is there transgression” Romans 4:15

Law before Sinai - even if not written on stone.
It was a sin to “take God’s name in vain” even before Sinai –
It was a sin to murder before Sinai - Genesis 4
Gen 26:5 “Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

===========================================
Gal 3
20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not!

God’s Law is “written on stone” at Sinai – because of transgressions – they needed the “visual aide” to remind them.

What about ceremonial law “it too was given at Sinai … but it ceased at the cross no matter if one believes in Christ or not”.

WOW, intentional confusion Bob.... Yes, the transgressions was before Sinai but it was after freedom from Egypt. God was angry with the children They wanted to go back to Egypt, they tested God, they tested Moses. Why do you think they spent 40yrs in the wilderness? To make sure all but Joshua and Caleb was dead. You know the truth.

Another thing about the ceremonial law – they had animal sacrifices before Sinai… animal sacrifice was not started at Sinai.

15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it.
16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.

What is the “promise” – what is “the Covenant confirmed before by God in Christ”? -- the NEW Covenant.

1. The Law written on the heart Jeremiah 31:31-33
2. Sins forgiven
3. Taught by God
4. Adopted into the family of God
which is the "one Gospel" of Gal 1:6-9 that was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8

Thus it is "STILL" a sin to "take God's name in vain"
And so in Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment is the "first commandment WITH a promise" in that still-valid unit of TEN

No wonder in Mathew 19 Christ quotes from the TEN
No wonder in Romans 13 Paul quotes those same commandments from the unit of TEN
No wonder James 2 quotes from the unit of TEN
No wonder Romans 8 quotes from the unit of TEN

No wonder John says "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
1 John 5:2-3

No wonder the "Saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 according to John

No wonder all those Sunday groups listed in my signature line affirm all TEN as still applicable to all mankind - written on the heart under the New Covenant

You're undermining God's truth by switching the context from Gal3 to Heb 11.) If they had to keep the law to obtain the promise, the promise would be made void. So the question is asked WHY DID THE LAW COME????
The law came to keep them in line to obtain the promise.

All those scriptures are true in their context.

 

[BobRyan]

Wow, A flim-flam move ...

WOW, intentional confusion Bob....

You're undermining God's truth ....

Not true - read the first two posts on page 1

 

[BobRyan]

The law came 430yrs after the promise .

Which proves the promise did not make void the law.

And as Rom 5 points out - sin was in the world before the law was written "on stone".

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned –
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Gen 4 Cain is angry with his brother
So Cain became very angry and his face was gloomy. 6 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why is your face gloomy? 7 If you do well, will your face not be cheerful? And if you do not do well, sin is lurking at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.” 8 Cain talked to his brother Abel; and it happened that when they were in the field Cain rose up against his brother Abel and killed him.

(This is the easy part. So easy that Bible scholars in almost every Christian denomination , on BOTH sides of the Sabbath topic, admit to them)

 

[Cribstyl]

Which proves the promise did not make void the law.

And as Rom 5 points out - sin was in the world before the law was written "on stone".

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned –
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.

Sorry Bob, your comments are questionable at best. What version says "on stone"? You're are reasoning because the bible contradicts your understanding. What translation is that above?
Not only was sin in the world before the law. The wages of sin was death from the beginning.
God gave Adam a commandment not a law. By Adam transgressing that commandment, it resulted in sin and death. So sin was charged to His account.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

True statement, after law was given Bob. But John is not addressing from Adam to Moses as Paul taught as the official doctrine of "sin and the law." This partail text is used as a false premise to ignore and undermine the true gospel. We need a literal translation to expose this false premise.

Gen 4

Cain is angry with his brother
So Cain became very angry and his face was gloomy. 6 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why is your face gloomy? 7 If you do well, will your face not be cheerful? And if you do not do well, sin is lurking at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.” 8 Cain talked to his brother Abel; and it happened that when they were in the field Cain rose up against his brother Abel and killed him.

(This is the easy part. So easy that Bible scholars in almost every Christian denomination , on BOTH sides of the Sabbath topic, admit to them)

Using an unfamiliar version speaks volume Bob.
Yes, At the first mention of the word sin in the bible, God explains sin as something lurking at the door of your mind that wants to come out and rule over you. We know that Sin happen when a person gives in to temptation. We can clearly understand that no law is necessary to sin Bob. Read Rom 5 again.

 

[ralliann]

Which proves the promise did not make void the law.

Ro 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Abraham kept the law of faith. This law was not made void in the Sinai covenant

And as Rom 5 points out - sin was in the world before the law was written "on stone".

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned –
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Ro 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. {moved … : or, being wary }

 

[BobRyan]

Ro 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Abraham kept the law of faith. This law was not made void in the Sinai covenant

Rom 13 says that Law pertaining to "Love your neighbor as yourself" is the Law of Moses - Lev 19:18 includes ALL the TEN Commandments pertaining to "Love your neighbor as yourself". Still valid.

In fact Eph 6:2 reminds us that the TEN having "honor your father and mother as the first commandment with a promise" are all still valid and apply to Christians not just the rest of the world.

That is included in the moral law of God that defines what sin is 1 John 3:4, Rom 3:19-20 - that is written on the heart under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 (as Paul reminds us in Heb 8:6-12)

No wonder these basic Bible details are admitted to by Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations on BOTH sides of the Sabbath topic.

Sorry Bob, your comments are questionable at best.

I find a certain paucity of logic in that statement.

 

[BobRyan]

The law came 430yrs after the promise .

Which proves the promise did not make void the law.

And as Rom 5 points out - sin was in the world before the law was written "on stone".

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned –
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Gen 4 Cain is angry with his brother
So Cain became very angry and his face was gloomy. 6 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why is your face gloomy? 7 If you do well, will your face not be cheerful? And if you do not do well, sin is lurking at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.” 8 Cain talked to his brother Abel; and it happened that when they were in the field Cain rose up against his brother Abel and killed him.

(This is the easy part. So easy that Bible scholars in almost every Christian denomination , on BOTH sides of the Sabbath topic, admit to them)

You're are reasoning because the bible contradicts your understanding.

On the contrary the text quoted perfectly fit my comments and even the Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations admit to these basic Bible details about all TEN being included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant. (scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath topic).

Not only was sin in the world before the law. The wages of sin was death from the beginning.

Where there is no Law there is no sin.

Abraham kept God's Law Gen 26:5 "5 because Abraham obeyed Me and fulfilled his duty to Me, and kept My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

Where there is no Law there is no sin.

sin entered the world through one man, Rom 5.

There was never a time when murder, taking God's name in vain, worshipping false gods -- was not a sin, a violation of the Law of God.

Bible details so obvious that Bible scholars in almost every Christian denomination , on BOTH sides of the Sabbath topic, admit to them

 

[BobRyan]

We can clearly understand that no law is necessary to sin Bob

Another contradiction of scripture?

Rom 5:
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned –
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.

Bible details so obvious that Bible scholars in almost every Christian denomination , on BOTH sides of the Sabbath topic, admit to them

Abraham kept God's Law Gen 26:5 "5 because Abraham obeyed Me and fulfilled his duty to Me, and kept My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

Where there is no Law there is no sin.

 

[ralliann]

Rom 13 says that Law pertaining to "Love your neighbor as yourself" is the Law of Moses - Lev 19:18 includes ALL the TEN Commandments pertaining to "Love your neighbor as yourself". Still valid.

In fact Eph 6:2 reminds us that the TEN having "honor your father and mother as the first commandment with a promise" are all still valid and apply to Christians not just the rest of the world.

That is included in the moral law of God that defines what sin is 1 John 3:4, Rom 3:19-20 - that is written on the heart under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 (as Paul reminds us in Heb 8:6-12)

No wonder these basic Bible details are admitted to by Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations on BOTH sides of the Sabbath topic.



I find a certain paucity of logic in that statement.

The law of Sinai was additional law. We can see what the nations were being judged for in Sinai law. Which Israel was warned that If Israel did any of those things the land would spew them out also.

 

[BobRyan]

The law of Sinai was additional law.

Do you think "Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 given at Sinai and not found before that time was "additional at Sinai and did not used to be a sin"??

We can see what the nations were being judged for in Sinai law. Which Israel was warned that If Israel did any of those things the land would spew them out also.

Lev 18 has a long list of things that non-Bible-aware nations were being judged for "do not take God's name in vain" is not listed as one of those things.

Bible scholars on both sides of the Sabbath topic in almost all denominations agree that the "Ten" are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34... law known to Jeremiah and his readers.

 

[Cribstyl]

Do you think "Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 given at Sinai and not found before that time was "additional at Sinai and did not used to be a sin"??

You cant just make stuff up. Sin for what people? God chose the children of Israel through Abraham.

Lev 18 has a long list of things that non-Bible-aware nations were being judged for "do not take God's name in vain" is not listed as one of those things.

Bible scholars on both sides of the Sabbath topic in almost all denominations agree that the "Ten" are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34... law known to Jeremiah and his readers.

false...... you already know.

 

[BABerean2]

Ten Commandments begin in Eden - according to the Bible - and "Baptist Confession of Faith" and "Westminster Confession of Faith" and D.L. Moody and many others.

The term "New Covenant" is not found in the man-made confessions above.

How could Adam have committed adultery?

How could Adam honor his mother?

Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

.

 

[Cribstyl]

The term "New Covenant" is not found in the man-made confessions above.

How could Adam have committed adultery?

How could Adam honor his mother?

Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

.

You're correct about Adam not having the Ten. In Rom5 Paul taught that Adam's transgression was to break the singular commandment he was given.
In Rom 5 Paul taught that sin was in the world before the law was given.

The reason for the elaborate scam is to say Sabbath and the law was instituted in creation.

 

[BobRyan]

The term "New Covenant" is not found in the man-made confessions above.

If you take the time to read them you find that reference the New Covenant feature of the "Law of God written on the heart"...

details matter.

T
How could Adam have committed adultery?

How could Adam honor his mother?

God's moral law is eternal - Adam and Eve were not created sterile according to Genesis 1 and 2.

details matter -- even when they are in favor of God's Commandments.

 

[BobRyan]

You're correct about Adam not having the Ten.

It would be sin for Adam to take God's name in vain as we all know.
And God warns Cain about "sin" when Cain is angry with his brother.

No wonder these Bible details about the TEN are so glaringly obvious that Bible scholars in almost all denominations on BOTH sides of the Sabbath issue - admit to them

 

[ralliann]

Do you think "Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 given at Sinai and not found before that time was "additional at Sinai and did not used to be a sin"??



Lev 18 has a long list of things that non-Bible-aware nations were being judged for "do not take God's name in vain" is not listed as one of those things.
De 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

The covenant made in Genesis 17 with Abraham Includes all nations. Sinai did not include the nations. Only the circumcised in the flesh.

De 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, [even] us, who [are] all of us here alive this day.

 

[BobRyan]

no doubt there was no nation-covenant before Sinai - but is it also true that "taking God's name in vain" was not a sin before Sinai?

Clearly the TEN as included in the moral law of God - were there all along. A almost all Bible scholars on both sides of the Sabbath topic will admit.