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Galatians 3 - shows New Covenant Gospel is before Sinai

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by BobRyan, Apr 27, 2018.

  1. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    From the same mouth that called the ten commandments His covenant.
    Deu 4:13 - And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
    (Your doctrine must ignore this text because you believe the ten.com was made with Adam)

    From the same mouth that said He will make a new covenant unlike the one made at Sinai (the ten commandment)
    Jer 31:31 - Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
    Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

    (Your doctrine believe the New Covenant is ACCORDING to the covenant made with the father....)
     
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  2. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    I do not anywhere deny that the Ten Commandments are "His Covenant", even God's "My Covenant". In fact, I have said that over and over again in these very forums.

    What I have also said over and over, is that the "My Covenant" of God is the Eternal/Everlasting Covenant, and is not the 'old covenant' that was made by the peoples in Exodus 19, "all that the LORD hath said we will do".

    Two things.

    [1] God's "My covenant", the Everlasting Covenant, that was spoke from His lips/mouth, and He would not alter, and are His eternal perfect promises given from Heaven.

    [2] their, the peoples faulty promises covenant, in Exodus 19, "all that the LORD hath said we will do", made on earth.​

    Correct, Abraham never had said to God, "all that the LORD hath said [I.] will do", but instead believed God in the "Everlasting Covenant", the "My Covenant" of God, and as such, obeyed God in His Commandments.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
  3. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    What covenant was made with their fathers in Jer 31?

    What covenant was Israel punished for breaking?

    Was it not the famous 10 Cs?

    bugkiller
     
  4. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    You did not ask about the rules first. You were the first to to mention the rules. Still I can not believe the rules are not understood as the 10 Cs, the covenant made with Israel as Moses said in Deut 4:13.

    bugkiller
     
  5. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    Well not current practice.

    bugkiller
     
  6. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    Are you referring to Jeremiah 31:29-30,32?

    As stated before, the 'old covenant' made in Exodus 19 & 24 is "all that the LORD hath said we will do".

    That agreement/covenant entered into, is not the "My Covenant", "His Covenant" of God.

    No, the 'old covenant' is not of itself the Ten Commandments, which is the "My Covenant" [eternal/everlasting Covenant of God].

    There are 2 things.
     
  7. listed

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    You're right.
     
  8. listed

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    Exodus 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,

    Deuteronomy 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

    This is both spoken and written.
    True, it includes much more even though Moses said the covenant is written on stone.
     
  9. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Wrong, wrong and wrong again. The covenant (one) was not an everlasting covenant. It was an "IF" covenant. If you do I will. Ex19: 5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.’

    The covenant was eternal IF kept and they didn't. What happens to a broken covenant? Yes, Jesus brought the old Sinai covenant to an end. He fulfilled it. (fulfil = bring to an end). He then offeres mankind a better covenant that truly is an everlasting covenant and when we accept it we are promised not Canaan but a mansion in Heaven for eternity, not for just a lifetime.
     
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  10. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    You did a fine job for me. I do not need to add anything. Thanks.

    bugkiller
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Hard to forget these "Bible details" and as noted before "Bible details matter"
    =============================================

    no text says "The Law was until Christ" not even Gal 3
    no text says "the Ten Commandments were until Christ" not even Gal 3
    no text says "The law ended at the Cross" not even Gal 3

    Thus it is still a sin to "take God's name in vain"

    What is more ...

    1 Cor 6
    9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators,
    nor idolaters,
    nor adulterers,
    nor effeminate,
    nor homosexuals,
    10 nor thieves,
    nor the covetous,
    nor drunkards,
    nor revilers,
    nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

    Rom 3:31
    31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

    Eph 6:2
    2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),

    Hint: First Commandment with a promise - where ?

    James 2
    8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.

    Hint: What "Scripture" is James 2 quoting?


    James 2
    9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said,Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.”

    Who said "Do not commit adultery" -- and when?
    Who said "Do not murder" -- and when?

    Answer: it was God!

    James 2
    Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

    Matthew 19
    if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
    You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
    You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
    You shall not steal; Ex 20
    You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
    19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
    and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

    What Law is that?
    What is Jesus quoting?

    When asked 'Which ones?" from what does Jesus quote?
     
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Thanks -- I love to read Gal 3

    And even pro-sunday scholars admit --
    Ten Commandments begin in Eden - according to the Bible
    - and "Baptist Confession of Faith"
    - and "Westminster Confession of Faith"
    - and D.L. Moody
    - and many others.

    So let's start with Gal 3:18
    ==============================================


    Galatians 3
    18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

    What "inheritance"? -- Hebrews 11 - "New Jerusalem" heavenly Canaan.
    Heb 11
    9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
    ...
    13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

    The Gospel/ The Covenant / The promise --

    =============== why the law written on stone?
    Transgression was “Before” Sinai .

    Gal 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

    It was added because of transgressions, (that were before Sinai) Gal 3:19
    Where there is no Law neither is there transgressionRomans 4:15

    Law before Sinai - even if not written on stone.
    It was a sin to “take God’s name in vain” even before Sinai –
    It was a sin to murder before Sinai - Genesis 4
    Gen 26:5 “Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

    ===========================================
    Gal 3
    20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
    21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not!

    God’s Law is “written on stone” at Sinai – because of transgressions – they needed the “visual aide” to remind them.

    What about ceremonial law “it too was given at Sinai … but it ceased at the cross no matter if one believes in Christ or not”.

    Another thing about the ceremonial law – they had animal sacrifices before Sinai… animal sacrifice was not started at Sinai.

    15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it.
    16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.
    17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.

    What is the “promise” – what is “the Covenant confirmed before by God in Christ”? -- the NEW Covenant.

    1. The Law written on the heart Jeremiah 31:31-33
    2. Sins forgiven
    3. Taught by God
    4. Adopted into the family of God
    which is the "one Gospel" of Gal 1:6-9 that was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8
     
  13. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Funny you should mention Gal 3 where Paul does tell us the law was until Christ. 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made. Who is the Seed Bob?

    19 What, then, was the purpose of the Law? It was added in order to show what wrongdoing is, and it was meant to last until the coming of Abraham's descendant, to whom the promise was made. Who is Abraham's descendant to whom the promise was made Bob?

    see above
    23 But before the time for faith came, the Law kept us all locked up as prisoners until this coming faith should be revealed. 24 And so the Law was in charge of us until Christ came, in order that we might then be put right with God through faith. 25 Now that the time for faith is here, the Law is no longer in charge of us.


    matt5: 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished (finished, fulfilled). Jn19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, It is finished.’ With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

    Sure is Bob. That is part of the Royal Law of Love.

    Oh you really like to throw that verse in don't you. You justify all the verses that tell us we are not under the law with that one verse. According to SDAs that one verse takes away all the verses that explain Christians are not under the Sinai covenant. If that is the case the verse does not mention the 10 commandments that is established, it is the complete 613 laws of the Sinai covenant. There is no way you can take that verse to mean just the 10 commandments and furthermore the verse does not say we are under the law, it says the law is established and not nullified. It still has a useful part to play in pointing out sins of morality.

    Absolutely Jesus was correct in answering him with that answer. We have to remember the new covenant was not established when Jesus gave that answer. Both were under the Sinai covenant. How else could have Jesus answered him? Jesus had yet to bring to an end the law at Calvary.

    Okay then if no scripture in the New Testament says that anything ended then why aren't you wearing your yamaka and who gave you permission to cut your sideburns? Lev19:27
    27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

    Keep all the Sabbaths (feast days)
    30 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.

    Why are you not adamant about anything but just thirteen of all the laws of the Sinai covenant? You disregard the feast days, why? Lots of things in this post that need to be answered before you can make the claim that we are under the 10 commandments.
     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Ten Commandments begin in Eden - according to the Bible - and "Baptist Confession of Faith" and "Westminster Confession of Faith" and D.L. Moody and many others.

    =================================================


    Galatians 3
    18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

    What "inheritance"? -- Hebrews 11 - "New Jerusalem" heavenly Canaan.
    Heb 11
    9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
    ...
    13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

    The Gospel/ The Covenant / The promise --

    =============== why the law written on stone?
    Transgression was “Before” Sinai .

    Gal 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

    It was added because of transgressions, (that were before Sinai) Gal 3:19
    Where there is no Law neither is there transgressionRomans 4:15

    Law before Sinai - even if not written on stone.
    It was a sin to “take God’s name in vain” even before Sinai –
    It was a sin to murder before Sinai - Genesis 4
    Gen 26:5 “Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

    ===========================================
    Gal 3
    20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
    21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not!

    God’s Law is “written on stone” at Sinai – because of transgressions – they needed the “visual aide” to remind them.

    What about ceremonial law “it too was given at Sinai … but it ceased at the cross no matter if one believes in Christ or not”.

    Another thing about the ceremonial law – they had animal sacrifices before Sinai… animal sacrifice was not started at Sinai.

    15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it.
    16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.
    17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.

    What is the “promise” – what is “the Covenant confirmed before by God in Christ”? -- the NEW Covenant.

    1. The Law written on the heart Jeremiah 31:31-33
    2. Sins forgiven
    3. Taught by God
    4. Adopted into the family of God
    which is the "one Gospel" of Gal 1:6-9 that was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8

    Thus it is "STILL" a sin to "take God's name in vain"
    And so in Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment is the "first commandment WITH a promise" in that still-valid unit of TEN

    No wonder in Mathew 19 Christ quotes from the TEN
    No wonder in Romans 13 Paul quotes those same commandments from the unit of TEN
    No wonder James 2 quotes from the unit of TEN
    No wonder Romans 8 quotes from the unit of TEN

    No wonder John says "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
    1 John 5:2-3

    No wonder the "Saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 according to John

    No wonder all those Sunday groups listed in my signature line affirm all TEN as still applicable to all mankind - written on the heart under the New Covenant



    hint. "Still a sin to take God's name in vain" even for you.


    Hint "before faith came" not "before Christ came"
    22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.


    Rom 3
    19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

    Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

    Paul does not say "scripture USED to confine all under sin" as if the rule that defines sin -- scripture -- had been deleted.

    Paul does not say "all the world USED to be guilty of sin" as if the rule that defines sin -- scripture -- had been deleted.

    Paul does not say "every mouth USED to be stopped" as if the rule that defines sin -- scripture -- had been deleted.

     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    You "quoted you" just then to construct your straw man argument. You knew that right?

    you make this too easy for me.
     
  16. listed

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    I'd say that's rather odd. Galatians says "the law was added....till the Seed came."

    19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

    Details get you into trouble, they matter remember.
     
  17. listed

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    Interesting indeed. Your post shows the law is by passed for the righteousness God requires. It also shows that no one before Israel had this law. It also shows the law had a limited jurisdiction with the word "till." You argue the law applies to the Christian. What do you base this on? 1 Timothy 1:9 says no law for the righteous. If you contend the Christians isn't righteous there's no salvation.
     
  18. listed

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    Just another dodge.
     
  19. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not one jot or one tittle Bob. How could you make such a statement. Nowhere does it tell us that just part of the law has ceased. Not one jot. You really need to bone up on what scripture is saying and not what you would like for it to say.

    Woops, you forgot there is one more verse that completes the thought and changes what you are trying to portray. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

    Why do you stop at verse 3 Bob? John didn't stop there. He went on to explain what the commands he mentioned in verse 3 are. You are wrong to tell us the commands are the 10. It does not say that and furthermore John tells us further down in the chapter that we know we belong to the truth if we keep His commands and His commands are to love Jesus and to love others as Jesus loves us.

    23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

    Blows your theory right out of the water doesn't it.

    Yep, the saints will believe in Jesus and love others as He commanded us.

    A lot of people and religious groups have been mistaken Bob. The ones you seem to take great joy in posting in everyone of your posts were like you ad your church, mistaken. The 10 commandments according to 2Cor 3:7-11 were temporary laws not eternal laws like you want us to believe. I will go with Paul and not the SDA church on that issue. It is an indisputable fact that we are not under the Sinai covenant.

    What is your point? 23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

    Did the law contain the 10 commandments Bob? Pau states that we are no longer UNDER a guardian. The law was the guardian. See the "was" what does was mean?


    Exactly, Bob. We are no longer under the Sabbath law. It was part of the tutor.
     
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  20. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    You are amazing.

    bugkiller
     
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