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Featured Friends of yours watch Heaven Is For Real and ask you about it?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by DennisTate, Oct 17, 2017.

  1. Yes

    12 vote(s)
    40.0%
  2. No

    16 vote(s)
    53.3%
  3. I am not sure but I am looking into this.

    2 vote(s)
    6.7%
  1. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    Duh. That's what the post was for.
    The cloud of witnesses is a specific reference to that list in Heb11 and nothing else.
    The spirits of the ancient saints are very much alive and with the Lord. Therefore they can witness perfectly well everything that goes on with the saints.
    That was demonstrated on the mount of transfiguration.
     
  2. Butch5

    Butch5 Newbie Supporter

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    You can't debate opinion, you need facts.


    Uh, no, they're dead read Hebrews 11.
     
  3. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    I agree....... some very convincing testimonies exist that indicate that the saints who have mentored us may well be able to meet somebody during a near death experience...... because actually people may well really be dead during the out of the body part of their NDE and in at least some cases a miraculous resurrection occurs..... In other cases doctors now know how to prepare the body so that the spirit can go back into it.....
     
  4. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    My post stated the facts of Hebrews 11 and 12.
    The definition of a witness is someone who watches or sees, not someone we watch. That is fact not opinion.
    Its also fact that your interpretation of what Jesus said in Jn3v13 is proved completely false by the scriptures of people who went up to heaven before and after Jesus. Again scriptural fact, not opinion.
    You clearly don't understand that all mankind from Adam onwards relied on Jesus to coming down as the basis of them going up to heaven.
    And BTW, here's another one who went to heaven before his time and before Jesus came down.
    Heb11v5By faith Enoch was translated not to see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him up.
    Again fact, not opinion. Seems Enoch got the Elijah treatment, or maybe the other way around, but either way, they were both taken up to heaven which completely contradicts your posts.
    It is merely the body which dies, the spirit and soul is very much alive.
    James2v26For just as the body apart from spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
    Take not, it does not say that the spirit without the body is dead. That's because its the spirit within the body which gives it life, and that life can exist when the body dies.
     
  5. Dkh587

    Dkh587 David דויד Supporter

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    It’s not legitimate.
     
  6. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    False preachers in ravening wolves clothing would have you believe that people go to heaven; which is a lie for they are calling Christ a Liar:
    John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

    Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken up to heaven so that he did not see death; he was seen no longer, for God took him away: for before he was taken, witness had been given that he was well-pleasing to God:

    2 Kings 2:11 And while they went on their way, going on talking together, suddenly there were carriages and horses of fire separating [from H995 בִּין A primitive root; to separate mentally] them from one another and Elijah departed aloft [ H8064 שָׁמֶה shaw-meh'] in a great wind. [alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move]
    If it was to mean Heaven it would have to be G3772 οὐρανός sky.

    2 Kings 2:12 And when Elisha saw it he gave a cry, My father, my father, the carriages of Israel and its horsemen! And he saw him no longer; and he was full of grief.

    James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
    24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
    25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    good works are second acts, necessarily flowing from the life of faith; to which may be added, and by these faith appears to be living, lively and active, or such who perform them appear to be true and living believers. [GILL]

    Exodus 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel.
    "who was the Angel that spoke to Moses on Mount Sinai" [GILL]

    Exodus 24:9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
    "and the seventy elders were not all the elders of Israel, but were so many of them selected out of them, the chief and principal; who were heads of tribes and families, and were no doubt many, if not all of them, of those who by the advice of Jethro were chosen to be rulers of thousands, hundreds, and fifties; these were called to come up to the Lord on the mountain, but not to the top of it, only Moses went thither: [GILL]

    2 Corinthians 12:2 I have knowledge of a man in Christ, fourteen years back if he was in the body, or out of the body, I am not able to say, but God only, who was taken up to the third heaven.

    "whether in the body or out of the body, and which he repeats and refers to the knowledge of God, clearly shows he must mean himself; besides, it would otherwise have been no instance of any vision of his, nor would the rapture of another have at all affected his character, commendation, and praise, or given him any occasion of glorying as this did: though he did not choose to take it, as is clear by his saying that if he gloried of it he should not be a fool, yet forbore, lest others should entertain too high an opinion of him" [GILL]

    John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

    Heaven on this earth!

    Psalms 37:9  For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

    Psalms 37:11  But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

    Matthew 5:5  Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

    Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

    Psalms 132:13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation. 14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

    Psalms 76:2 In Salem also is his tabernacle, and his dwelling place in Zion.

    Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

    Micah 4:1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

    Micah 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

    Micah 4:3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

    Micah 4:4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.

    Micah 4:5 For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.

    Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

    Isaiah 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
     
  7. Butch5

    Butch5 Newbie Supporter

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    This reply shows me that you either didn't read or didn't understand my post.

    So, you told me I was wrong and yet you started from a false premise. Your interpretation of those passages starts with the preconception that some part of man lives on after death. This is simply not the case. The Bible teaches no such thing. People who "already" believe this read it into the Scriptures.

    Regarding Elijah, he didn't go to Heaven. It's recorded in Scripture, that about 15 after being taken into the heavens, he wrote a letter to one of the kings. And Enoch died, Paul says so in Hebrews 11.
     
  8. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    You do not understand the meaning of spirit. G5590 ψυχή the breath of life psuche the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing, thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, πνεύμα esprit pneuma which is the rational human body

    Mat 10:28  And have no fear of those who put to death the body, but are not able to put to death the spirit. But have fear of him who has power to give spirit and body to destruction in hell. 

    The body dies and the spirit, which is the breath of life, returns to God who gave it awaiting either resurrection or condemnation. But only for those who have believed. Some who believed are like the seed that fell among the thorns and paid more attention to the whims of men instead of continuing to listen to God.

    Matthew 13:22  He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, smother the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

    Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
     
  9. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    More like you didn't read or understand my post.
    I started from a biblical premise and continued with it.
    Er, you are the one who is reading into the scriptures starts.
    Scripture explicitly states that he did.
    Its well known that the chapters and verses of scripture are not in chronological order
    Again scripture states categorically that he did not die.
    Heb11v5By faith Enoch was translated not to see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him up.
    You are clearly projecting your belief into the words
     
  10. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    John 6:47 – Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

    Matthew10:28  And have no fear of those who put to death the body, but are not able to put to death the spirit. But have fear of him who has power to give spirit and body to destruction in hell. 

    The body dies and the spirit, which is the breath of life, returns to God who gave it awaiting either resurrection or condemnation. But only for those who have believed. Some who believed are like the seed that fell among the thorns and paid more attention to the whims of men instead of continuing to listen to God.

    Matthew 13:22  He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, smother the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

    Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
     
  11. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    I don't think Satan is a person.
     
  12. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    What is your purpose with this quote?
    Again, what is your purpose here as this only backs what I have been saying all along.
    I have no idea what you are trying to say as these scriptures have little to do with what I posted.
     
  13. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    Scripture clearly treats Satan as a spiritual being, a person.
     
  14. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Sometimes, clearly not always.

    Matthew 16:23
    But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”

    Ephesians 6:12
    For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

    Colossians 1:13
    He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  15. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    If scripture treats Satan as a real spiritual person even some of the time, then it has to apply all the time.
    How does that help you?
    Again, what does this do for your cause?
    Again, no help there.

    Read these verses and you will see they refer to real spiritual persons.
    Job2v1On another day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them to present himself before him.

    Rev2v13I know where you live--where Satan has his throne. Yet you remain true to my name. You did not renounce your faith in me, not even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was put to death in your city--where Satan lives.

    2Cor11v14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

    Rev20v1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, the ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
     
  16. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    I don't need any help. The Bible has about 15 descriptive names for Jesus. None of them are wrong.
     
  17. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    I can't work out whether you are spoofing with these inane posts?
    None of them connect with anything.
     
  18. Ttalkkugjil

    Ttalkkugjil Spiritual Director

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    Heaven is For Real was, I believe, a cunning move made by a couple who wanted to get attention for themselves using their kid. I find it utterly vile.
     
  19. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Of course they are all directly on topic. Thanks for your comment!
     
  20. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    You are entitled to your opinion but if this was fake it would have been exposed by now. The incident happened in 2003 when Colton was 4. He is now 20, there were other people involved, if it was phony surely someone would have exposed it by now.
    .....My first encounter with a NDE was in 1970. I was in an Army Officers advance course. Everyone in the class had served at least one tour in Vietnam. One of the officers spoke about how he had a NDE when he was critically wounded in Vietnam. I was very skeptical until 2009 when I had what was supposed to be a simple 45 minute hernia repair. There were complications and it turned into a 5 hour open surgery where I experienced acute kidney failure, atrial fibrilation, ileus (bowel blockage) and sepsis (critical bacterial infection of the abdominal cavity). After that I am no longer skeptical of NDE if reasonably credible.
     
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