Friends of yours watch Heaven Is For Real and ask you about it?

[Ttalkkugjil]

You are entitled to your opinion but if this was fake it would have been exposed by now. The incident happened in 2003 when Colton was 4. He is now 20, there were other people involved, if it was phony surely someone would have exposed it by now.

It's actually up to people who make an incredible claim to prove their claim true. It isn't up to others to prove it not true. As far as I know, the Heaven is For Real claim has never been adequately proven valid.

 

[Francis Drake]

Heaven is For Real was, I believe, a cunning move made by a couple who wanted to get attention for themselves using their kid. I find it utterly vile.

Was Paul's testimony of visiting heaven also vile?

About 60 years ago, my wife had regular NDE type experiences when she was 3 years old.
She comes from non Christian family, so had no background to facilitate it.

She was taken up to heaven, met Jesus who told her various things, and she saw many other people there.
She also saw the heavenly city with is gates of precious jewels.

It wasn't till she was 18 years old that she was given a bible where she read the description of the heavenly city and realised she had already been there.

 

[Der Alte]

It's actually up to people who make an incredible claim to prove their claim true. It isn't up to others to prove it not true. As far as I know, the Heaven is For Real claim has never been adequately proven valid.

How do you propose they do that in this case? What, if any, "evidence" within the capabilities of the Burpos to provide would you accept? I'm thinking there is nothing they could say or do which would convince you. How would someone go about disproving Colton Burpo's story?

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

Was Paul's testimony of visiting heaven also vile?

About 60 years ago, my wife had regular NDE type experiences when she was 3 years old.
She comes from non Christian family, so had no background to facilitate it.

She was taken up to heaven, met Jesus who told her various things, and she saw many other people there.
She also saw the heavenly city with is gates of precious jewels.

It wasn't till she was 18 years old that she was given a bible where she read the description of the heavenly city and realised she had already been there.

What I mostly find vile in the Heaven is For Real case is what I perceive as the parents using their son to get attention for themselves. As far as I know, your wife's parents didn't go after lucrative book and movie deals. Modern day NDEs make for interesting anecdotes imho. I'm unawsre that they've ever been adequately, scientifically proven to go beyond thst.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

How do you propose they do that in this case? What, if any, "evidence" within the capabilities of the Burpos to provide would you accept? I'm thinking there is nothing they could say or do which would convince you. How would someone go about disproving Colton Burpo's story?

So, again, it isn't up to others to disprove Burpo's story. It remains up to Burpo to prove his story true. Just how he should do that - I don't know. However, he certainly needs to go beyond sharing an interesting anecdote.

 

[Francis Drake]

What I mostly find vile in the Heaven is For Real case is what I perceive as the parents using their son to get attention for themselves. As far as I know, your wife's parents didn't go after lucrative book and movie deals.

There's nothing vile about the testimony of Colton Burpo or his parents wanting others to be encouraged by it.
I personally found it a wonderful testimony that confirmed the many others who have had NDEs.
It also aided our understanding of scripture.

As for my wife, her parents were unbelievers and just thought it childish make believe when she tried to talk about it.
Her mother is now a believer and realises that what she rejected as silly nonsense all those years back was actually true.​

Modern day NDEs make for interesting anecdotes imho. I'm unawsre that they've ever been adequately, scientifically proven to go beyond thst.

Likewise most of the stories in scripture. None of them have been scientifically proved.
Proof of NDE's will make no difference when people knee jerk reject them out of principle, as you have done.

That said, there are many proofs in Burpo's and in other people's experiences

Many people return from NDE's with information that would be impossible to possess normally.
One man described debris he saw on the hospital rook, including I recall a single red boot. People often describe what they see behind locked doors in nearby rooms.

Colton describes meeting dead grandparents he had never met, he describes being greeted by his older still born sister, including the name his parents had given her.

Reject all you like, but don't call it vile.

 

[Francis Drake]

So, again, it isn't up to others to disprove Burpo's story. It remains up to Burpo to prove his story true. Just how he should do that - I don't know. However, he certainly needs to go beyond sharing an interesting anecdote.

Wrong.
All the proof you need is there in the book, and Colton is much older now and can still verify it.
You can call him a liar, but then it's up to you to prove why.
That's how it works.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

There's nothing vile about the testimony of Colton Burpo or his parents wanting others to be encouraged by it.
I personally found it a wonderful testimony that confirmed the many others who have had NDEs.
It also aided our understanding of scripture.

As for my wife, her parents were unbelievers and just thought it childish make believe when she tried to talk about it.
Her mother is now a believer and realises that what she rejected as silly nonsense all those years back was actually true.​

Likewise most of the stories in scripture. None of them have been scientifically proved.
Proof of NDE's will make no difference when people knee jerk reject them out of principle, as you have done.

That said, there are many proofs in Burpo's and in other people's experiences

Many people return from NDE's with information that would be impossible to possess normally.
One man described debris he saw on the hospital rook, including I recall a single red boot. People often describe what they see behind locked doors in nearby rooms.

Colton describes meeting dead grandparents he had never met, he describes being greeted by his older still born sister, including the name his parents had given her.

Reject all you like, but don't call it vile.

To be clear, what I am calling vile in the Heaven is For Real case is what I perceive as the parents using their son to get attention for themselves - i.e. the appearances and lucrative book and movie deals.

While I am, of course, highly skeptical of NDEs (and have been for some time - I reject your comment about a knee-jerk reaction), I don't call all NDEs vile. I appreciate an interesting anecdote.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

Wrong.
All the proof you need is there in the book, and Colton is much older now and can still verify it.
You can call him a liar, but then it's up to you to prove why.
That's how it works.

Actually, no. As I said, it's up to those who make an extraordinary claim to prove their claim valid. Just sticking to one's story isn't enough.

 

[Francis Drake]

Actually, no. As I said, it's up to those who make an extraordinary claim to prove their claim valid. Just sticking to one's story isn't enough.

That being the case, let us know what proof you are looking for.

 

[Francis Drake]

To be clear, what I am calling vile in the Heaven is For Real case is what I perceive as the parents using their son to get attention for themselves - i.e. the appearances and lucrative book and movie deals.

Why is theirs more vile than any of the other hundreds of testimonies?

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

One boy comes clean... Boy Says He Didn't Go To Heaven; Publisher Says It Will Pull Book

 

[Francis Drake]

One boy comes clean... Boy Says He Didn't Go To Heaven; Publisher Says It Will Pull Book

Hahaha, as if that proves everything or anything?
One minister says he doesn't believe in God any more. Therefore all ministers are false?
I’m a Presbyterian Minister Who Doesn’t Believe in God

Please tell us what proof you are seeking.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

Hahaha, as if that proves everything or anything?
One minister says he doesn't believe in God any more. Therefore all ministers are false?
I’m a Presbyterian Minister Who Doesn’t Believe in God

Please tell us what proof you are seeking.

A comment like that makes me wonder whether or not you're actually reading that which I post.

 

[Francis Drake]

A comment like that makes me wonder whether or not you're actually reading that which I post.

.
I've read all your posts, and see that this one is also completely irrelevant to the Burpos.

The fact that someone else, somewhere else on the planet is a fraud, is hardly evidence that the Burpo testimony is a fraud, is it?

It's as daft as my reply that because some "Christian" minister happens to be an atheist, therefore all ministers are atheist.

And you still haven't answered the question as to what proof you demand.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

.
I've read all your posts, and see that this one is also completely irrelevant to the Burpos.

The fact that someone else, somewhere else on the planet is a fraud, is hardly evidence that the Burpo testimony is a fraud, is it?

One boy recanted. Perhaps in time Burpo will as well.

Note that at 11:34 p.m. yesterday I posted, "So, again, it isn't up to others to disprove Burpo's story. It remains up to Burpo to prove his story true. Just how he should do that - I don't know. However, he certainly needs to go beyond sharing an interesting anecdote."

 

[he-man]

What is your purpose with this quote?

Huh: Some who believed are like the seed that fell among the thorns.

Heb 11:6　 And without faith it is not possible to be well-pleasing to him, for it is necessary for anyone who comes to God to have the belief that God is, and that he is a rewarder of all those who make a serious search for him.　

The body dies and the spirit, which is the breath of life, returns to God who gave it awaiting either resurrection or condemnation. But only for those who have believed. Some who believed are like the seed that fell among the thorns and paid more attention to the whims of men instead of continuing to listen to God.

Matthew 13:22　 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, smother the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

 

[Francis Drake]

Huh: Some who believed are like the seed that fell among the thorns.

Heb 11:6　 And without faith it is not possible to be well-pleasing to him, for it is necessary for anyone who comes to God to have the belief that God is, and that he is a rewarder of all those who make a serious search for him.　

The body dies and the spirit, which is the breath of life, returns to God who gave it awaiting either resurrection or condemnation. But only for those who have believed. Some who believed are like the seed that fell among the thorns and paid more attention to the whims of men instead of continuing to listen to God.

Matthew 13:22　 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, smother the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Again, what is your purpose in posting these quotes?
They neither add nor subtract to my posts.

 

[Francis Drake]

One boy recanted. Perhaps in time Burpo will as well.

Note that at 11:34 p.m. yesterday I posted, "So, again, it isn't up to others to disprove Burpo's story. It remains up to Burpo to prove his story true. Just how he should do that - I don't know. However, he certainly needs to go beyond sharing an interesting anecdote."

Nope. If anyone is accused of lying, its up to the accuser to prove it.
Under both biblical and US and UK law, we are "innocent till proved guilty", and you have provided no evidence of guilt other than your constant ranting.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

Nope. If anyone is accused of lying, its up to the accuser to prove it.
Under both biblical and US and UK law, we are "innocent till proved guilty", and you have provided no evidence of guilt other than your constant ranting.

It isn't an accusation of lying to say that an extraordinary claim must be proven before it is accepted.