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Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by DennisTate, Oct 17, 2017.

  1. Yes

    13 vote(s)
  2. No

    17 vote(s)
  3. I am not sure but I am looking into this.

    2 vote(s)
  1. Butch5

    Butch5 Newbie Supporter

    Revelation is a book full of symbolism and John is seeing both Heaven and Earth. It also speaks of the future. It would be helpful if you could show where these dead people are supposedly alive. Are you sure they're not resurrected?
  2. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

    United Kingdom
  3. Butch5

    Butch5 Newbie Supporter

    That doesn't show where dead people are supposedly alive.
  4. Dkh587

    Dkh587 David דויד Supporter

    United States
    That was a vision. Moses is dead.
  5. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

    United States
    Nope Jesus told the thief on the cross that today you will be with Me in Paradise. Which translated means after they died physically they would be alive in Paradise.

    nuff said ........

    next ........

    hope this helps !!!
  6. Butch5

    Butch5 Newbie Supporter

    Actually, if we look at the passage in context, what did the thief want? He wanted Jesus to remember him when Jesus came into His Kingdom. Did Jesus answer the guy's question or did He tell him something completely different and ignore his question? If He answered the guy's question then Paradise has to do with the Kingdom, not some place down in the earth. In Revelation Jesus told one of the churches that to the overcomer He would give to eat of the Tree of Life which is in the Paradise of God. We know where the Tree of Life is. It's in the Garden of Eden, or the Paradise of Eden. The Greek word that is transliterated in the passage of the thief means a garden.

    However, the passage about the thief doesn't prove, let alone teach, that the dead are alive. You see, in the original texts there is no punctuation. Punctuation has been added by the translators. They place it where they "think" it should be. So if we move the comma over from where the translators "think" it shoild be to where it actually should be the sentence reads completely different.

    And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

    If we move the comma from before the word today to after it, the meaning of the sentence changes completely.

    And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee Today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

    As we see here, Jesus isn't saying they would be in Paradise that day. Rather, He's telling him that day that he'd be in paradise.
  7. Dkh587

    Dkh587 David דויד Supporter

    United States
    It doesn’t help because the Messiah didn’t even go to paradise that day. He(the Messiah) was dead for the next 3 days. He didn’t go anywhere that day except to the grave.

    Moses was indeed dead:

    Deuteronomy 34:5-7
  8. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter


    I totally agree and I think that these two accounts go hand in hand although they are close to being opposites.

    Bill Wiese twenty three minutes in hell?