Freemasonry. Separating myth from fiction.

[gamewell45]

Not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. It's simply a matter of you making a statement you can't back up.

Duane, whether you want to admit it or not, it is a matter of agreeing or disagreeing.

 

[circuitrider]

Duane, whether you want to admit it or not, it is a matter of agreeing or disagreeing.

As a fundamentalist Christian Duane only sees one possible way to look at things gamewell. So that makes it tough to do anything but disagree with him unless you are a fundamentalist and probably of the same branch of fundamentalism he is.

So I've just given up on reasoning with them and should have never bothered I suppose.

 

[gamewell45]

As a fundamentalist Christian Duane only sees one possible way to look at things gamewell. So that makes it tough to do anything but disagree with him unless you are a fundamentalist and probably of the same branch of fundamentalism he is.

So I've just given up on reasoning with them and should have never bothered I suppose.

Excellent advice on your part.

 

[duane washum]

Uh-huh

 

[Albion]

Bolding mine.

Perhaps. But if the Christian God exists I think an unbeliever who comes to judgment and says they have no right to enter and asks for forgiveness and grace has a far better chance of entry than a Christian who claims they are entitle to entry because of their deeds.

Each man is entitled to his own opinion about such things, but there isn't anything in Scripture that suggests any of us has the option to first START on reforming AFTER we've died.

 

[morningstar2651]

Morningstar, my apologies if my comments about Crowley offended you. I didn't intend to disparage your own personal faith.

I have heard a lot of wild stories about Crowley's personal life and behavior. Maybe you can debunk such stories. I'm sensitive to the fact that Freemasons have false stories told all the time I should have been a little bit more circumspect since I do not know a lot about the OTO other than what I've read online.

I'm not offended at all. Crowley was far from perfect and he certainly didn't help matters by reveling in the sensational stories printed about him during his life.

So tell me, star, how that they have savaged your hero, how do you like the "gentle Craft"? Still think it's a good idea?

Sorry to disappoint you Duane, but Crowley isn't my Hero.

From The Magick of Aleister Crowley, I recommend Chapter 0: Frequently Asked Questions about Aleister Crowley. It's a concise look at the misconceptions (e.g. human and animal sacrifice, satanism) as well as some of the truths (e.g. homosexuality, addiction to heroin and cocaine).

Below is an excerpt - the final question of the FAQ.

Is it dangerous to study Aleister Crowley?
Aleister Crowley was by no means perfect. He was not good with people and often alienated those who loved him dearest. His bold explorations of human sexuality and drugs (always meticulously recorded and analyzed) are fascinating to study, but were never intended to be casually emulated. I never encountered anyone who knew him that did not disapprove of some aspect of his character or behavior.

But he is dead. For us, only his works remain as a measure of the man, and they are currently more accessible to the general public than at any time during his life. His influence on the modern world of art, literature, religion, and philosophy is now widely acknowledged even by his most vehement critics. It is my hope that this book may help bring the wonder of his genius to a new generation of seekers and to an even broader audience of students.

But is it dangerous for some people to study Aleister Crowley? I guess I have to say yes. For those whose belief in a God of goodness hinges upon the reality of a devil who is equally evil; for the superstitious, the ignorant, the lazy, the immature, the unbalanced, the mentally ill, the paranoid, the fainthearted; for anyone who for any reason cannot or will not take responsibility for their own actions, their own lives, their own souls; for these people Aleister Crowley is still a very dangerous man.​

 

[morningstar2651]

They are interesting to read about. I find it astounding that the orders that he started are still around. Do you practice Thelema? I am not sure what the differences are in these orders.

However,as a Christian I do (regardless of what anti-Masons think) believe that without Christ a person will not be in heaven.

I'm not a member of any of the organizations, but I do practice Thelema solo. My flavor of Paganism is strongly Thelemic with heavy Hellenistic influences - I've felt called to serve Hermes and Aphrodite.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Crowley and Joseph Smith have brought a lot of negative attention to masonry. Stealing symbols signs and words straight from us. Their stories of how they became masons is also unbelievable. For those of us that fight to spread the truth about freemasonry, we run against the same names all the time. Even though they've all been debunked. It doesn't stop the antimasonic crowd from continually using them to attempt to portray us in a negative light.

What exactly about Joseph Smith has been debunked? Was he not regularly made a Mason? Was he not regularly made a master of his lodge? Did he not take the ritual and turn it into the Endowment ceremony? Did he not attempt to use the MM distress signals when he was murdered? Just what 'debunking' has happened? Cordially, Skip.

 

[Albion]

What exactly about Joseph Smith has been debunked? Was he not regularly made a Mason?

Apparently he was not, after all. It is equally likely that he picked up what he did from relatives who were Masons.

Did he not attempt to use the MM distress signals when he was murdered?

That's a theory, but no one can be sure either way.

 

[circuitrider]

Apparently he was not, after all. It is equally likely that he picked up what he did from relatives who were Masons.


That's a theory, but no one can be sure either way.

There were already ritual exposes printed in Smith's time. He could have gotten his hands on some kind of material like that. There is no way to know that he did. But it is possible.

 

[Simpleman25]

What exactly about Joseph Smith has been debunked? Was he not regularly made a Mason? Was he not regularly made a master of his lodge? Did he not take the ritual and turn it into the Endowment ceremony? Did he not attempt to use the MM distress signals when he was murdered? Just what 'debunking' has happened? Cordially, Skip.

There's evidence to show that he did petition and was accepted. I've read where he went through his EA work but never went further.

According to most mormon records he supposedly went from first degree to 32nd degree all at once. Ironically you couldn't do that at the time he claimed he did. We all know smith wasn't known for being honest anyway.

There are many things taken from masonry that are used by mormons. Doesn't make them a 'connection' to mormonism. Just that smith was intellectually and spiritually a thief.

There's also a trumped up story about smith being jailed in Missouri and almost killed by masons. No evidence to support that claim. Just myth.

 

[Albion]

I've read where he went through his EA work but never went further.

That's what I understood, too.

There are many things taken from masonry that are used by mormons. Doesn't make them a 'connection' to mormonism.

As has already been said, there are LOTS of organizations that have "borrowed" symbols, actions, etc. from Masonry and incorporated such into associations that are otherwise totally unlike Masonry.

 

[circuitrider]

s that have "borrowed" symbols, actions, etc. from Masonry and incorporated such into associations that are otherwise totally unlike Masonry.

And ritual exposures make it easy to do that.

 

[Simpleman25]

And ritual exposures make it easy to do that.

That's a reason I don't understand how some folks can ask to be trusted. If you placed your hands on the bible and made promises, then broke them. How can you ever be trusted again?

Simple answer is you most likely will not be trusted again.

 

[circuitrider]

That's a reason I don't understand how some folks can ask to be trusted. If you placed your hands on the bible and made promises, then broke them. How can you ever be trusted again?

Simple answer is you most likely will not be trusted again.

Agreed. Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.

 

[circuitrider]

For those who are interested in discussing or learning about Freemasonry without the anti-masonic activists attacks come to the social group I've just created.

http://www.christianforums.com/groups/521/

This group is moderated so anti-masonic postings will not be accepted.

 

[duane washum]

That's a reason I don't understand how some folks can ask to be trusted. If you placed your hands on the bible and made promises, then broke them. How can you ever be trusted again?

Simple answer is you most likely will not be trusted again.

Which of course, explains the big difference between you and God. He is forgiving, you are not. I don't know if a person should be particularly energetic in boasting of the differences between him and God, but then that's just another difference between you and me.

He forgave me; He called me. Live with it.

 

[Skip Sampson]

I've felt called to serve Hermes and Aphrodite.

You believe then that they are real gods? Who was it that called you?

Some Masonic jurisdictions claim a belief in a monotheistic god is required for membership, so I guess your statement would keep you from membership in such jurisdictions. But it may be that others would accept such a statement of faith as being consistent with their requirements. That would be an interesting questions for the Masons around here. After all, you have, to some degree, expressed a belief in a supreme being, which would be the one who called you to serve.

Though beyond the scope of this thread, I'd be curious how you have answered the call, and what it means to serve those gods. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Simpleman25]

Morningstar,

If you choose to answer, please do so in a pm. I would like to keep this on topic as much as possible.

Don't let his detail fool you. He's just doing what he's been taught or ordered to do. Not by God mind you. By his cult leaders at emfj.

Thank you

 

[Skip Sampson]

Skip, have you ever read Åke Eldberg's website which "debunks" Duane Washum's claims about Freemasonry point by point?

It might be informative, but I don't see where it 'debunks' anything. I've looked through it and organized some comments by the general category he used.


The Basis Assumption

To begin with, the EMFJ homepage assumes that freemasonry is a single, unified entity.

I don’t see where that statement is made in the EMFJ website. It is more of an assumption made by the critic than a statement by the ex-Masons. Moreover, the critic goes on to note that:

The three basic "Craft" degrees are similar in all masonic systems; indeed, those degrees are required for a lodge to be recognized by others as masonic. But "similar" is not "identical". Drawing conclusions about Freemasonry (as a whole) with quotes from one specific ritual is deceptive and misleading.

This pretty much defeats their initial argument. Too, it is neither deceptive nor misleading to quote from one jurisdiction’s ritual when that quote is also found in other GL’s rituals. Had the charge been true, the critic should have pointed out where the Nevada material was inconsistent with other GL’s.

Who Can I Believe?
Requires no comment as it addresses its view of Masonry’s critics without dwelling on the men involved in EMFJ. If these men are so evil, why is direct proof of it not in existence?

How can you quickly know that the foundational teachings of Freemasonry are false?"

In this document, EMFJ claims that Freemasonry is deistic.

Untrue; it makes no such claim. It does make this claim though:

It teaches that all men, of all the various religions, worship the one God, simply using a variety of different names.

Comically, the critic notes this immediately after his charge:

(Historically, there is no question that Jews and Moslems do believe in the same God as Christians, even though their understanding of Him is -- from a Christian viewpoint -- flawed.)

Thus, the critic agrees with the EMFJ view. Anyone who thinks that the God of the Jews is the same god of the Muslim simply doesn’t understand either religion’s views.

Death, Burial and Resurrection in the Masonic Lodge

In this document, EMFJ claims that Freemasonry in its third degree "baptizes" members to believe in, and imitate, the mythological character Hiram Abiff, and that Freemasonry regards this imitation as a way to achieve salvation. It further alleges that the 3rd degree of Masonry is a sort of pagan baptism into a non-Christian religion.

That is true; here is the main conclusion:

They are the keys to understanding the baptism of the candidate that is exemplified by his symbolic death, burial, and resurrection as he is supposedly portraying a person by the name of Hiram Abif during an acted out drama that is admittedly a trumped up chain of events that never happened in the first place.

One only need read the Master Mason ritual in any GL jurisdiction to see that this is exactly what is taking place. The candidate, blindfolded, is bonked on the head with a mallet, dropped to the ground in a shroud and plays a corpse while the play goes on. He is then resurrected to his new Masonic life. Afterwards, he is told in many jurisdictions that he is to emulate Hiram Abif.

More interesting, the Master Mason lodge is referred to as the Holy of Holies, the earthly home of God in Solomon’s Temple. The claim is to put a divine stamp on all that happens in the MM degree, which is quite an arrogant claim.

Finally, several GL's and other masonic writers proudly note that Masonry derives from 'mystery religions' which are, of course, pagan.

The critic may dispute the conclusion all he wishes, but he cannot deny the facts of the matter. It may be that he's never read the U.S. rituals and that might be the source of his errors. Bear in mind that the EMFJ paper is fully referenced and the writer directly experienced the event.


Why Would a Pastor Condone, or Defend Freemasonry?

The brochure argues that Freemasons are infiltrating Christian congregations.

He does not provide the context for his charge. Here is what the pamphlet actually says:

In these days, the words of Paul, Jude and other apostles who warned believers to stand firm, reverberate loudly. The church is under attach (sic) from without, from within, and sometimes even from the pulpit. Many congregations have been infiltrated and compromised. The most cohesive group of infiltrators the church has ever seen are the Freemasons.

Notice that Masons are described as ‘the most cohesive group of infiltrators.’ The main point is that churches are always under attack of one sort or another by false teachings, and that Masons are part of this. As before, the writer backs up his charges and speaks from a first-person point of view. The critic may not like the conclusions, but they cannot be rejected out of hand in view of the testimonies to just that effect. Churches have been torn apart due to examinations of Freemasonry and the Masonic response to that examination.
I once gave a presentation to my church on false gods, which included the GAOTU. The pastor told me later that the Masons in the church said if I ever spoke again on the subject, they’d all leave. Notice their intent was to stop all discussion of the matter, not to present their side of things. It’s that kind of behavior that has occurred in churches and to which the article refers.

Testimony of a Former Worshipful Master
This needs no comment as the critic pretty much agrees with most of what the writer has to say.

Why does Freemasonry call its god the Great Architect of the Universe?

This paper at the EMFJ site sets forth the theory that the "Great Architect of the Universe" (G.A.O.T.U.) is a cover name, used in order to make it possible for people of different religions to pray together. This is partially correct.

Not sure what criticism of EMFJ actually exists in this part of the website, but they conclude with this:

You face immediate death. You kneel down in prayer, putting your soul in the hands of God. Does it bother you that a Hindu and a Moslem are doing the same thing a few feet away? If you are that bigoted, you should not become a Freemason. If you are a true Christian, you should pray for the Jews and the Moslems, and win them over by showing them the love of Christ.

As a Christian, it would bother me greatly that the Moslem was praying to Allah for his salvation, or that the Jew had rejected Jesus. And the reason for this is Biblical:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. (John 3:16-18)

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)

If you accept the Bible as the authority for your religious beliefs, you cannot ignore the one great truth about Christian salvation: it is only through Jesus Christ. That the critic rejects that view is totally Masonic, and is something the EMFJ website is trying to get across everywhere it can. To let nonChristians continue in worship without presenting the gospel once, is to do them no service. We either speak the truth or turn our backs on it. We believe that Freemasonry teaches its members to do the latter.

Ake's website is not alone in its paucity of facts and generosity of charges. In another such website noted on this forum where I am mentioned, the single charge levied is that I think Masons give too little. Unfortunately for that website, I never made that statement. What I did do is point out that the description of charitable giving by Masons included large amounts of giving by nonMasons and the result of investments; thus, to lump it all under Masonic charity was misleading at best. It's been my experience that such websites are not interested in the facts, only the conclusions and do not bother to do any logical analysis. They are just homes for talking points and little more. Cordially, Skip.