Freemasonry. Separating myth from fiction.

[Simpleman25]

Let's attempt to get this thread back on track.

If anyone has questions concerning freemasonry, feel free to ask it here.

There are a number of current masons ready to answer your questions.

Thank you

 

[Skip Sampson]

If anyone has questions concerning freemasonry, feel free to ask it here.

Why do Masons tend to refer to non-Masons as Profane? Cordially, Skip.

 

[Simpleman25]

Why do Masons tend to refer to non-Masons as Profane? Cordially, Skip.

The term has nothing to do with profanity.

Rather it is a term used to signify those men and women outside of freemasonry.

 

[Simpleman25]

PROFANE

This has a technical meaning in Masonry, nevertheless it adheres closely to the original significance of the word. Fanum was the Latin for temple; pro meant “before,” in the sense of “outside of.” It is the picture of man standing on the outside, not permitted to enter. It has tlfis same sense in Masonry; the “profane” are those men and women who stand outside of Masonry. The word here, of course, has nothing to do with profanity in the sense of sacrilegious language.



This is from the site master mason.com.
It carries no religious or other meanings

 

[Simpleman25]

Guess that answered his question.

Anyone else with a question about freemasonry?

There are numerous masons on this site with lots of knowledge.

 

[americanvet]

Guess that answered his question.

Anyone else with a question about freemasonry?

There are numerous masons on this site with lots of knowledge.

Even us without lots of knowledge are willing to talk with others who have honest questions.

 

[Simpleman25]

Even us without lots of knowledge are willing to talk with others who have honest questions.

Yes sir! We have a number of men here that will give honest answers to those with questions.

 

[Skip Sampson]

I think Masonry has redefined the word for its own reasons. Here's how dictionary dot com has it:

pro·fane (adj.)
1. characterized by irreverence or contempt for God or sacred principles or things; irreligious.
2. not devoted to holy or religious purposes; unconsecrated; secular (opposed to sacred ).
3. unholy; heathen; pagan: profane rites.
4. not initiated into religious rites or mysteries, as persons.
5. common or vulgar.

Latin profānus literally, before (outside of) the temple;

Defining it as "those men and women who stand outside of Masonry" is not consistent with the actual definition. The only way Masons can refer to non-Masons as 'profane' is if they view Freemasonry as of divine origin and in existence for holy, sacred or religious reasons.

You 'work' in lodges erected to God, around sacred altars and indicate that such work occurs in the very presence of God. That is why Masons have historically referred to non-Masons as 'profane,' and your hesitance to keep to the true definition shows it's something that you are not willing to reveal. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Albion]

I think Masonry has redefined the word for its own reasons.

Then that would be the only one that is operable in the case of Masonry.

 

[Simpleman25]

I think Masonry has redefined the word for its own reasons. Here's how dictionary dot com has it:

pro·fane (adj.)
1. characterized by irreverence or contempt for God or sacred principles or things; irreligious.
2. not devoted to holy or religious purposes; unconsecrated; secular (opposed to sacred ).
3. unholy; heathen; pagan: profane rites.
4. not initiated into religious rites or mysteries, as persons.
5. common or vulgar.

Latin profānus literally, before (outside of) the temple;

Defining it as "those men and women who stand outside of Masonry" is not consistent with the actual definition. The only way Masons can refer to non-Masons as 'profane' is if they view Freemasonry as of divine origin and in existence for holy, sacred or religious reasons.

You 'work' in lodges erected to God, around sacred altars and indicate that such work occurs in the very presence of God. That is why Masons have historically referred to non-Masons as 'profane,' and your hesitance to keep to the true definition shows it's something that you are not willing to reveal. Cordially, Skip.

Your question was how do masons use the word profane. I supplied a definition from a Masonic website. No other definition is needed in this case. If you had asked what the most common definition was, I would have supplied a different definition.

Next question.

 

[americanvet]

4 a: not being among the initiated

Source: Profane - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

 

[Skip Sampson]

Your question was how do masons use the word profane.

Partially true. What I specifically asked was:

Why do Masons tend to refer to non-Masons as Profane?

To say it just refers to non-Masons is not totally true in that it misses the impact of the term itself. According to your view, 'profane' simply equals 'non-Mason' and I'd say it goes much deeper than just that.

Americanvet took a different source and highlighted one of the definitions:

1: not concerned with religion or religious purposes : secular
2: not holy because unconsecrated, impure, or defiled : unsanctified
3a: serving to debase or defile what is holy : irreverent
b: obscene, vulgar
4a: not being among the initiated
b: not possessing esoteric or expert knowledge

I don't believe 4a and b can be separated, and they together capture the reason why Masons have chosen the term: non-Masons have not been initiated into the esoteric (hidden) knowledge of Freemasonry. It pictures how Masons view the rest of the world: as a group of blind, ignorant people standing outside the gates of the Temple of Masonry, separated from the truth and that which is holy.

Next question.

Ok: Masonic Lodges are 'erected to God' and in many GL jurisdictions, the candidate takes his obligations in the very presence of God, according to the rituals in those jurisdictions. To what deity does that refer? Is it the Biblical version, the Koranic version, the Hindu, Buddhist, Mormon version? Cordially, Skip.

 

[Simpleman25]

Partially true. What I specifically asked was:To say it just refers to non-Masons is not totally true in that it misses the impact of the term itself. According to your view, 'profane' simply equals 'non-Mason' and I'd say it goes much deeper than just that.

Amerianvet took a different source and highlighted one of the definitions:
I don't believe 4a and b can be separated, and they together capture the reason why Masons have chosen the term: non-Masons have not been initiated into the esoteric (hidden) knowledge of Freemasonry. It pictures how Masons view the rest of the world: as a group of blind, ignorant people standing outside the gates of the Temple of Masonry, separated from the truth and that which is holy.


Ok: Masonic Lodges are 'erected to God' and in many GL jurisdictions, the candidate takes his obligations in the very presence of God, according to the rituals in those jurisdictions. To what deity does that refer? Is it the Biblical version, the Koranic version, the Hindu, Buddhist, Mormon version? Cordially, Skip.

I'll finish the comments concerning profane before answering your newest question.

First of all you asked a question and it was answered by more than one mason. All of us agree on the answers.

The issue with your response to our answers is simple. You used your personal opinion without facts to back it up. You used the terms, 'i think' and 'i believe'. I gave you a specific definition without personal opinion.

An issue I have with your comments concerning non masons being blind and ignorant. That is strictly your assumption. None of us on here consider non masons to be ignorant. That again is your assumption.

Your opinions are duly noted.

 

[americanvet]

I'll finish the comments concerning profane before answering your newest question.

First of all you asked a question and it was answered by more than one mason. All of us agree on the answers.

The issue with your response to our answers is simple. You used your personal opinion without facts to back it up. You used the terms, 'i think' and 'i believe'. I gave you a specific definition without personal opinion.

An issue I have with your comments concerning non masons being blind and ignorant. That is strictly your assumption. None of us on here consider non masons to be ignorant. That again is your assumption.

Your opinions are duly noted.

Yep.

 

[Skip Sampson]

All of us agree on the answers.

Well, there we have it: if you all agree, you must be right. An interesting position to take, but one more reflective of the 'better man' conceit generally exhibited by Masons than a logical proposition.

You used your personal opinion without facts to back it up. You used the terms, 'i think' and 'i believe'.

I usually ensure my opinions are separated from the facts upon which they are based. According to your lights, if I state anything as a fact, you'll believe it. Nah.....

I gave you a specific definition without personal opinion.

You consulted a Masonic website to define the term, which is little removed from a personal opinion. Your quote even noted that the word is not used in the normal way within Freemasonry, but is altered to fit a Masonic viewpoint. I'll say more about that in a separate thread.

None of us on here consider non masons to be ignorant. That again is your assumption.

You may not, but 'Freemasonry' certainly does. I'll deal with that separately.

I'll finish the comments concerning profane before answering your newest question.

Still waiting for your answer. Since you are apparently hesitant about answering that question, I've narrowed the answer down to two: 1) whatever god the individual Mason believes in; 2) the universal god that Masonry actually teaches. H.W. Coil phrased it perfectly:

Men have to decide whether they want a God like the ancient Hebrew Jahweh, a partisan, tribal God, with whom they can talk and argue and from whom they can hide if necessary, or a boundless, eternal, universal, undenominational, and international, Divine Spirit, so vastly removed from the speck called man, that He cannot be known, named, or approached.(Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia, 1st edition, pg. 516)

Cordially, Skip.

 

[morningstar2651]

Cordially, Skip.

 

[Simpleman25]

Your question was why do masons refer to non masons as profane. Why would I use any other definition than from a Masonic site? It would seem silly to ask an Amish man what masons are talking about.

Simple deduction. You asked a specific question. I gave you a specific answer.

 

[ChristianMasonJim]

I don't believe 4a and b can be separated, and they together capture the reason why Masons have chosen the term: non-Masons have not been initiated into the esoteric (hidden) knowledge of Freemasonry. It pictures how Masons view the rest of the world: as a group of blind, ignorant people standing outside the gates of the Temple of Masonry, separated from the truth and that which is holy.

All it means is that those who are not Masons do not have the knowledge that Masons have. Just as I do not have all the knowledge that a PhD has or a Navy Seal has or a Priest has. The only difference is that Freemasons use a word that is unfamiliar to most. Simple answer: Old organization + old word = confused non-members.

Ok: Masonic Lodges are 'erected to God' and in many GL jurisdictions, the candidate takes his obligations in the very presence of God, according to the rituals in those jurisdictions. To what deity does that refer? Is it the Biblical version, the Koranic version, the Hindu, Buddhist, Mormon version? Cordially, Skip.

Freemasonry describes God as the one true God, Creator of the Universe. By design and generally speaking, it really doesn't go into any further definition. Any specific definitions are left up to the individual Mason to determine for himself.

It is obvious that the ritual of Freemasonry is rooted in Judeo-Christian scripture and teachings, and they inspire such elements as the Hiramic legend. It is also obvious that Freemasonry draws inspiration from other religions, philosophies, stories, mythologies, and legends. Of course, all of these simply provide a foundation for knowledge, not a specific definition of God.

 

[circuitrider]

Brother Jim,

You do know that Skip doesn't actually want answers to his questions don't you?

 

[Skip Sampson]

You do know that Skip doesn't actually want answers to his questions don't you?

So your refusal to answer my questions is because you believe I don't want my own questions answered? Pretty lame excuse, I'd say. Cordially, Skip.