Freedom from Sin: Overcoming the Wet Paint Principle (the complete version)

[justbyfaith]

Thus you contradict yourself when it comes to what you are actually teaching, simply because you have a mindset wherein you want to destroy Freedom.

 

[justbyfaith]

Romans 5:19 and Romans 5:15-16 are talking about a completely different subject than the verses you quoted in Romans 8. The verses in Romans 5 definitely tell us that we are justified as a free gift. We are declared righteous, God says that person is not guilty, perfect in His sight. And yet also, it is impossible for God to lie so when He declares us righteous He makes us righteous. Also, see Hebrews 10:14 NKJV. He has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified. This substantiates Freedom 2:1.

 

[justbyfaith]

(continued from #181): not Freedom TO sin, but Freedom fom sin, dealing with the wet paint principle identified in Romans 7:7-13. The things you are fighting hardest are the principles that set us free from the wet paint principle. You are also seeing contradictions between principles of scripture instead of trying to reconcile them. You will never get it the way you are going if Freedom 2:21 is true. And it is.

 

[justbyfaith]

There are many contradictions in the Bible, all of them can be reconciled by other scripture (or simple reasoning).

 

[justbyfaith]

For example, Romans 4:5 and James 2:17-24.

 

[justbyfaith]

Romans 9:16 and Revelation 22:17. And others.

 

[justbyfaith]

You have to think of what these scriptures might be saying together. For example, we come to Jesus because the heavenly Father draws us (John 6:37). Or, we are ungodly when He justifies us but He doesn't leave us that way. This kind of reasoning is the basis for nearly all of my statements.

 

[justbyfaith]

Judge not according to the outward appearance, but judge righteous judgment. 2 Corinthians 10:7. John 7:24.

 

[justbyfaith]

@Halbhh, I would ask you to read the whole of the thread, if you have the time, and let me know, What points does @Jason0047 have that convince you of his opinion, if any? I would really like the opinion of an outside observer, so that I can better answer this attack on my literary work.

 

[justbyfaith]

This document is like a steak sandwich: first bread, not very substantial in protein but nutricious, then steak, and then some lettuce (teaching on the law) then maybe some more meat, and then bread again.

 

[Halbhh]

In effect, to receive the teaching of Christ, we must listen. To Him.

It's humble.

Instead of looking to confirm a doctrine, instead of reading to support a doctrine, instead of these.

Instead we must listen as humbly as children, expecting to learn. That means I lay aside even correct doctrines.

Because they are a distraction.

I lay aside what I think I know, when I'm listening to Him.

Even when reading a gospel for the 4th or 6th time.

I want to hear Him, not some other things in my mind.

I want to hear Him. Not myself nor Billy Graham, nor Alastair Begg, nor Augustine, etc.

So I do the listening. I lay aside all doctrines, and listen.

If I listen, then I will learn new things. It's Christ we need to follow, for salvation. He is who we all must be listening to, lest we allow a doctrine to replace too many of His words, and lose something crucial.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Jason0047, Freedom 2:1 is again interpreted by Freedom 2:23-24, and this answers the first part of your post, concerning the parable you related. You seem to think that every verse is to be picked apart by itself, but they all stand together. Freedom 2:23-24 comes to the defense of your attack on Freedom 2:1.

I don’t recognize “Freedom” as a book or writing in Scripture. I only believe the Bible.

In fact, please stop referring to your work as if it is like a book from the Bible with it having it’s own name followed by a verse number.

Concerning Romans 6:1, Paul wrote it because he said previously that where sin abounds, grace abounds much more (Romans 5:20). And we do not nullify scripture with other scripture if we are sane, we do not try to.

But that is what you are doing. You are nullifying what the Scriptures are saying because you are not believing Romans 6:1 because you think it is nullified by Romans 5:20. You are also not explaining Romans 6:1 in light of your belief that states that we can break God’s laws on some level and still be saved. Romans 5:20 is saying that grace so much more abounds because it spills over into everlasting life and the descendants of Abraham will be as the stars of the sky (the universe). It does not mean we can sin and still be saved on some level whereby that kind of thinking leads to Sinless Perfection. Sinless Perfection is true, but your method of how to get there is not. For how is such a method working out for you?

Therefore Hebrews 4:13 says what it says no matter how hard you try to fight against it. Also, the careful observer will see that in one moment you purport entire sanctification and in the next you try to destroy

Nope. This interpretation of yours has to ignore Hebrews 3 that warns us not to be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. Yet, you said we can sin and still be saved. I believe the Bible and not what you say or what you think the Bible says.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

15 If I sin willfully after receiving the full knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of the judgment and fiery indignation that will consume the enemies of God.

This is the card that will take down your house of cards. You said before,

"If I fail to obey the law, I am not condemned" ~ Victor Jedidiah​

Yet, you are now admitting to the truth of Hebrews 10:26 that says if we willfully sin after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins. Now, I know. You think that this may be talking to the unbeliever. But it is not. First of all, the word "we" includes the writer and the writer is a believer. Second, if yoiu were to keep reading in Hebrews 10, it says this....

"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him." (Hebrews 10:38).

Okay. You cannot draw back from something you never had. To live by faith means that they were living by faith for a while before they had drawn back. The just shall LIVE by faith (and not just have a mental acknowledgement that He is their Savior). Hebrews 3:12, the author of Hebrews warns the BRETHREN to not to depart from the living God by having an evil heart of unbelief. The author of Hebrews in Hebrews 3:13 says that do not be deceived by the deceitfulness of sin (Whereby it hardens your heart). This means that there is no such thing as a belief that says if a believer fails to obey the law they are saved. In fact, as I said before, Jesus said if you look upon a woman in lust, your whole body can be cast into hellfire (Matthew 5:28-30). If you say to your brother he is a fool you are again in danger of hell fire (Matthew 5:22). If you do not forgive you will not be forgiven (Matthew 6:15). These warnings have to be ignored or twisted in some way so as to make your belief here work. Matthew 6:15 is only in reference to believers because an unbeliever has to first accept Christ to be forgiven. It would not matter if an unbeliever has forgiven everyone on the planet. They will still be condemned if they don't accept Jesus.

Note: I will address your other points that come before this one later.

 

[justbyfaith]

I don’t recognize “Freedom” as a book or writing in Scripture. I only believe the Bible.

In fact, please stop referring to your work as if it is like a book from the Bible with it having it’s own name followed by a verse number.



But that is what you are doing. You are nullifying what the Scriptures are saying because you are not believing Romans 6:1 because you think it is nullified by Romans 5:20. You are also not explaining Romans 6:1 in light of your belief that states that we can break God’s laws on some level and still be saved. Romans 5:20 is saying that grace so much more abounds because it spills over into everlasting life and the descendants of Abraham will be as the stars of the sky (the universe). It does not mean we can sin and still be saved on some level whereby that kind of thinking leads to Sinless Perfection. Sinless Perfection is true, but your method of how to get there is not. For how is such a method working out for you?



Nope. This interpretation of yours has to ignore Hebrews 3 that warns us not to be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. Yet, you said we can sin and still be saved. I believe the Bible and not what you say or what you think the Bible says.

What I hear you saying is that we have to be perfect TO BE saved. Good luck with that. I will trust in the finished work of the Cross. This method is working out for me very well. I am not perfect, but I don't have to be...and He is daily transforming me into His image, making me more like Christ. You think that Romans 5:20 is nullified by Romans 6:1. In all reality, Romans 6:1 is Paul's response to those who might go overboard with the very real principle in Romans 5:20. Again you respond with your own teaching on what Romans 5:20 means. That is fine; we all do that. We all have our own ideas about scripture. And I understand that you don't recognize that Freedom is sound doctrine, but I am saying that it doesn't contrdict itself so you have to take it as a swhole. Therefore Freedom 2:23-24 has a bearing on other verses. You have to either accept or reject the teaching as a whole

 

[justbyfaith]

and therefore Freedom 2:23-24 ought to have a bearing on how you perceive other verses.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is the card that will take down your house of cards. You said before,

"If I fail to obey the law, I am not condemned" ~ Victor Jedidiah​

Yet, you are now admitting to the truth of Hebrews 10:26 that says if we willfully sin after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins. Now, I know. You think that this may be talking to the unbeliever. But it is not. First of all, the word "we" includes the writer and the writer is a believer. Second, if yoiu were to keep reading in Hebrews 10, it says this....

"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him." (Hebrews 10:38).

Okay. You cannot draw back from something you never had. To live by faith means that they were living by faith for a while before they had drawn back. The just shall LIVE by faith (and not just have a mental acknowledgement that He is their Savior). Hebrews 3:12, the author of Hebrews warns the BRETHREN to not to depart from the living God by having an evil heart of unbelief. The author of Hebrews in Hebrews 3:13 says that do not be deceived by the deceitfulness of sin (Whereby it hardens your heart). This means that there is no such thing as a belief that says if a believer fails to obey the law they are saved. In fact, as I said before, Jesus said if you look upon a woman in lust, your whole body can be cast into hellfire (Matthew 5:28-30). If you say to your brother he is a fool you are again in danger of hell fire (Matthew 5:22). If you do not forgive you will not be forgiven (Matthew 6:15). These warnings have to be ignored or twisted in some way so as to make your belief here work. Matthew 6:15 is only in reference to believers because an unbeliever has to first accept Christ to be forgiven. It would not matter if an unbeliever has forgiven everyone on the planet. They will still be condemned if they don't accept Jesus.

Note: I will address your other points that come before this one later.

 

[justbyfaith]

So you actually believe we have to be perfect to be saved. What about sins you commit before becoming a Christian. What about sins you commit after? (I have seen you commit a few). If you sin and never realize that you sinned and don't ever confess it, do you go to hell? Does Jesus forgive us of being sinners or does He forgive us of each individual sin as we confess them? Do we receive salvation through the Cross or do we save ourselves by turning over a new leaf?

 

[justbyfaith]

I say to you that the document Freedom is a doctrinal statement, and I only put chapter and verse so people might have easier reference to what I am saying. You only need to read the introduction to understand that I am not saying it should be included in people's Bibles as the inspired and inerrant word of God.

 

[justbyfaith]

I'll stop saying Freedom chapter and verse if you will immediately say everything you want to say about Freedom 2:21 and the statements I have made in this thread about the principle found therein.

 

[justbyfaith]

Actually I won't, because I may write other documens in the future and I want to avoid confusion. It will be clear that by referring to Freedom chapter and verse I am not saying that Freedom is to be taken as the Bible is taken unless it is making true and biblical statements.