For those who argue for the omnibenevolence of God…

[FireDragon76]

Why not?

It's not in accordance with the dignity of a being worthy of supreme worship, to not be maximally magnanimous.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Mind reading is a new talent for you? Clearly you're not good at it. This non-benevolent god is imaginary, it's a jerk in fact. No one in their right mind would voluntarily worship the jerk-god conceived in your posts.

God, on the other hand, is Love. He told Moses - "And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, the LORD, a God full of compassion and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy and truth; keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin: and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation."
Exodus 34:5-7

Perhaps such is not the God that you've been writing about?

Hundreds of millions of Hindus devoutly worship Kali, as well as other gods and goddesses in their pantheon, none of whom are in the least omnibenevolent and some are quite malicious. Hundreds of millions of Muslims worship Allah, who is not even remotely omnibenevolent. Omnibenevolence is not even on the radar of qualities that these folks look for in determining whether or not their god(s) are worthy for them to consider worshiping.

 

[Divide]

So the Lord said to me, “Do not pray for the welfare of this people. When they fast, I am not going to listen to their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and grain offering, I am not going to accept them. Rather I am going to make an end of them by the sword, famine and pestilence.”
— Jeremiah 14:11-12

God commanded Jeremiah to not pray for the people. That violates what I’ve seen some argue as God being all-loving.

I think I disagree. I think that God is all loving (because He created all!), but that the creation fell so there are many who are God's enemy. Them being God's enemy has nothing to do with the fact that God loves them. It is the enemies of God that make themselves the enemy of God through their choices. This being so will not stop God from loving them, but who joins the enemy that is against them? So God shut the door to them because they rebelled.

 

[FireDragon76]

Hundreds of millions of Hindus devoutly worship Kali, as well as other gods and goddesses in their pantheon, none of whom are in the least omnibenevolent and some are quite malicious. Hundreds of millions of Muslims worship Allah, who is not even remotely omnibenevolent.

First off, Kali is not an "evil" god, but the goddess of time and change. Hinduism doesn't have the same categories of good and evil that Christians often have. Kali s not frequently worshipped by Hindus. The main gods that Hindus worship are seen as being benevolent. The festival of Dewali during the winter celebrates the victory of the gods of light over demons, told in their ancient stories, and represents light overcoming darkness, and truth overcoming ignorance. It has some similar motifs, in this manner, with Christmas or Hanukkah, two holidays that are also about light.

Most Hindus are monotheists and do not believe in many gods. They believe the many gods or devas, are either angels or messengers of God (like Ganesh, the elephant-headed figure you see in some Hindu statues), or that they are appearances or manifestations of one God. This is called "inclusive monotheism" among scholars of religion, and in found in other religions as well (several Shinto or Asian religions would fall into this category).

Muslims believe God is omnibenevolent, as Muslims agree with Christians about many aspects of western classical theism. The Al-Fatiha prayer is the opening to the Quran. It is similar in structure to the Lord's Prayer, and it proclaims Allah, God, is compassionate and merciful. This is without qualification in fact, and can even be said to be names for God.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I think I disagree. I think that God is all loving (because He created all!)

But thou hast mercy upon all, because thou canst do all things, and overlookest the sins of men for the sake of repentance. For thou lovest all things that are, and hatest none of the things which thou hast made: for thou didst not appoint, or make any thing hating it. And how could any thing endure, if thou wouldst not? or be preserved, if not called by thee? But thou sparest all: because they are thine, O Lord, who lovest souls.
Wisdom 11:24-27

 

[FireDragon76]

But thou hast mercy upon all, because thou canst do all things, and overlookest the sins of men for the sake of repentance. For thou lovest all things that are, and hatest none of the things which thou hast made: for thou didst not appoint, or make any thing hating it. And how could any thing endure, if thou wouldst not? or be preserved, if not called by thee? But thou sparest all: because they are thine, O Lord, who lovest souls.
Wisdom 11:24-27

There are echoes of this in some of the Psalms, I believe, too. Alot of the deuterocanonical wisdom literature is just repeating themes found elsewhere in the Bible.

There's a good collect I remember from my days in the Episcopal church, during Lent, about the omnibenevolence of God. It was probably translated from a medieval collect, which in turn has its origins in the above verses.

 

[Hammster]

Mind reading is a new talent for you? Clearly you're not good at it. This non-benevolent god is imaginary, it's a jerk in fact. No one in their right mind would voluntarily worship the jerk-god conceived in your posts.

God, on the other hand, is Love. He told Moses - "And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, the LORD, a God full of compassion and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy and truth; keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin: and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation."
Exodus 34:5-7

Perhaps such is not the God that you've been writing about?

I never said God was non-benevolent. He’s just not Omni-benevolent which is proven by the verse you quoted.

 

[Hammster]

It's not in accordance with the dignity of a being worthy of supreme worship, to not be maximally magnanimous.

Why not?

 

[Hammster]

First off, Kali is not an "evil" god,

Seriously? Demons aren’t evil?

 

[FireDragon76]

Seriously? Demons aren’t evil?

Kali isn't a demon in the Hindu religion. Hinduism has demons and demon-like creatures, they are called asuras or yakshas, but Kali isn't one of them.

 

[FireDragon76]

Why not?

It's self-evidently true that goodness is good, isn't it, , and a supreme perfection would have all goodness, and a supreme goodness would have all perfection?

 

[Hammster]

Kali isn't a demon in the Hindu religion. Hinduism has demons and demon-like creatures, they are called asuras or yakshas, but Kali isn't one of them.

Kali is a demon, though.

 

[Hammster]

It's self-evidently true that goodness is good, isn't it, , and a supreme perfection would have all goodness, and a supreme goodness would have all perfection?

Is it good to punish evil?

 

[FireDragon76]

Is it good to punish evil?

It could be, I suppose, in a limited way. I interpret Jesus preaching about the Last Things as mostly being about the messianic vision of a world rid of evil. I don't see it primarily being about "heaven/hell" in some medieval sense.

 

[FireDragon76]

Kali is a demon, though.

We really don't have that kind of knowledge as Christians, so I think it's better to not make assumptions about other peoples religions.

 

[Hammster]

It could be, I suppose, in a limited way. I interpret Jesus preaching about the Last Things as mostly being about the messianic vision of a world rid of evil. I don't see it primarily being about "heaven/hell" in some medieval sense.

If it’s not good to punish evil, then it was evil for Christ to bear the punishment for sin.

 

[Hammster]

We really don't have that kind of knowledge as Christians, so I think it's better to not make assumptions about other peoples religions.

Actually, we do. All other “gods” aren’t gods. Stop pretending as if they are.

 

[FireDragon76]

If it’s not good to punish evil, then it was evil for Christ to bear the punishment for sin.

That's only one interpretation of the meaning of Christ's death, one that is more dependent on ones culture to make sense of it, as Eastern Christians don't typically think about Jesus death in that manner. I personally relate to Jesus as somebody that overcame sin and death, not that his death was necessary to please an angry god.

 

[FireDragon76]

Actually, we do. All other “gods” aren’t gods. Stop pretending as if they are.

You seem to be the one assuming the gods of other religions must be real, actual beings. Do you believe the Eastern Bunny or Tooth Fairy are also real?

The assumption that non-Christian gods are demons is a theological opinion by some church fathers, but I think it's an open question how Christianity relates to other religions, and we needn't assume every Hindu is a demonolater just because they have different ideas about a Supreme Being. That's not rational or charitable.

 

[Hammster]

That's only one interpretation of the meaning of Christ's death, one that is more dependent on ones culture to make sense of it, as Eastern Christians don't typically think about Jesus death in that manner. I personally relate to Jesus as somebody that overcame sin and death, not that his death was necessary to please an angry god.

Yeah. I suppose you can ignore all the verses that say otherwise.