For those who argue for the omnibenevolence of God…

[Hammster]

The verses here are from Isaiah and from the psalms.
Can a woman forget her infant, so as not to have pity on the son of her womb? and if she should forget, yet will not I forget thee.
Isaiah 49:15

Praise the LORD! O give thanks to the LORD, for he is good; for his steadfast love endures for ever!
Psalms 106:1

O give thanks to the LORD, for he is good; for his steadfast love endures for ever!
Psalms 107:1

Your post doesn't document the alleged context that the verses allegedly are not using.

The context is that those were spoken to Israel. They aren’t universal.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Curiously, your verses support the belief in particular benevolence as all three are only applicable to Israel and not all humanity.

You do not believe that God's love for gentiles endures forever?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

The context is that those were spoken to Israel. They aren’t universal.

Since those in Christ are the Israel of God I reckon that the verses are applicable to Christians despite your denial.

 

[bbbbbbb]

You do not believe that God's love for gentiles endures forever?

As I stated previously there is a distinct difference between what is known as common grace (which is universal in nature) and particular grace. God, most assuredly, had a peculiar way of showing His love for Gentiles in the Old Testament by commanding Israel to slaughter all the Gentiles occupying their land. I think that if someone issued a fatwa against me I probably would not take that to be a sign of love, would you?

 

[Hammster]

Since those in Christ are the Israel of God I reckon that the verses are applicable to Christians despite your denial.

How about the Canaanites?

 

[fhansen]

So the Lord said to me, “Do not pray for the welfare of this people. When they fast, I am not going to listen to their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and grain offering, I am not going to accept them. Rather I am going to make an end of them by the sword, famine and pestilence.”
— Jeremiah 14:11-12

God commanded Jeremiah to not pray for the people. That violates what I’ve seen some argue as God being all-loving.

We don't know the eternal fate of anyone, including ourselves, with 100% certainty. God loves all of His creation-that's His nature. Humans and angels are capable of responding to-and returning-that love. But not all will do so; free will endowed to men and angels makes them capable of worshipping the created, including themselves, rather than the Creator.

To believe in, hope in and, most importantly, to love God is the object of the knowledge of God (John 17:3). To know and therefore to love God is the essence of our salvation. But we may not even want to know Him, preferring ourselves over Him instead, preferring selfishness and pride over love to put it another way. We can debate forever as to why one prefers this over that but at the end of the day we only know that it's a matter of the will. God's will is always motivated by love. He just wants us to get on board with that.

 

[bbbbbbb]

We don't know the eternal fate of anyone, including ourselves, with 100% certainty. God loves all of His creation-that's His nature. Humans and angels are capable of responding to-and returning-that love. But not all will do so; free will endowed to men and angels makes them capable of worshipping the created, including themselves, rather than the Creator.

To believe in, hope in and, most importantly, to love God is the object of the knowledge of God (John 17:3). To know and therefore to love God is the essence of our salvation. But we may not even want to know Him, preferring ourselves over Him instead, preferring selfishness and pride over love to put it another way. We can debate forever as to why one prefers this over that but at the end of the day we only know that it's a matter of the will. God's will is always motivated by love. He just wants us to get on board with that.

Do you believe it is possible to love an entity of which you know absolutely nothing about? Do you love kowhbbuy?

 

[fhansen]

Do you believe it is possible to love an entity of which you know absolutely nothing about? Do you love kowhbbuy?

Jesus came to reveal Him-so that we can know Him. And, BTW, to the extent that you believe in, hope in, and love Jesus, you're already doing the the same for God.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Jesus came to reveal Him-so that we can know Him. And, BTW, to the extent that you believe in, hope in, and love Jesus, you're already doing the the same for God.

Are you implying that the vast majority of humanity who will never even hear the name of Jesus Christ can know Him? If I told you that kowhbbuy is the absolute revealer of all truth, what would you tell me?

 

[fhansen]

Are you implying that the vast majority of humanity who will never even hear the name of Jesus Christ can know Him? If I told you that kowhbbuy is the absolute revealer of all truth, what would you tell me?

I'd say I've already found the way, the truth, and the life. Find Him and you'll find God.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I'd say I've already found the way, the truth, and the life. Find Him and you'll find God.

I am very glad you have and that you are satisfied and disaffected by the plight of those who have not and will never be able to.

 

[fhansen]

I am very glad you have and that you are satisfied and disaffected by the plight of those who have not and will never be able to.

I've been trying to figure out where you were going with this. As Christians we believe that there is no greater, fuller, more complete revelation of God than that which came with and through Christ. So to know Him is to be given a great gift. And yet God, infinitely fair and just, will judge all on what they've done with whatever they've been given. Age, maturity, backgrounds, experience all play a part. Knowledge, especially, is key to culpability. And there are some things that we should know just by reason alone, or just based on the grandeur of creation alone as Rom 1:20 points out. At the end of the day we'll be judged by our hearts, on our love-and I'll let God sort that all out.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I've been trying to figure out where you were going with this. As Christians we believe that there is no greater, fuller, more complete revelation of God than that which came with and through Christ. So to know Him is to be given a great gift. And yet God, infinitely fair and just, will judge all on what they've done with whatever they've been given. Age, maturity, backgrounds, experience all play a part. Knowledge, especially, is key to culpability. And there are some things that we should know just by reason alone, or just based on the grandeur of creation alone as Rom 1:20 points out. At the end of the day we'll be judged by our hearts, on our love-and I'll let God sort that all out.

I know the trope quite well. All humanity is guilty before a holy and just God who will righteously cast them into the lake of fire which burns forever and ever - unless they intelligently hear and understand the gospel of Jesus Christ and place their faith in Him

The implications are quite clear. All, without exception - stillborn babies, infants, idiots, lunatics, and people who will never ever hear the name of Jesus Christ, much less believe in Him - have been predestined from eternity to an eternal punishment which can never be ameliorated in any way, shape or form.

Ultimately, God is holy and just and nothing will ever change or can change those attributes.

 

[fhansen]

I know the trope quite well. All humanity is guilty before a holy and just God who will righteously cast them into the lake of fire which burns forever and ever - unless they intelligently hear and understand the gospel of Jesus Christ and place their faith in Him

The implications are quite clear. All, without exception - stillborn babies, infants, idiots, lunatics, and people who will never ever hear the name of Jesus Christ, much less believe in Him - have been predestined from eternity to an eternal punishment which can never be ameliorated in any way, shape or form.

Ultimately, God is holy and just and nothing will ever change or can change those attributes.

Well, that’s not my particular trope. God is love, and to know that love and ultimately be perfected in that love ourselves is to attain our very purpose, our telos. It’s a journey, and a very, very good one, that begins here. It’s to finally find the absolute fulfillment of all human desire which, when complete in the next life, is also the source of uncompromising, ineffable happiness. That’s what God has always wanted for man, from the beginning, and we won’t find it until we rest in Him. Adam departed from it when he turned away from God. All of the human misery and sin and victimization that has been witnessed and experienced and participated in down through the centuries is directly related to our distance from Him.

He wants all to come to Him, to continuously know the love that He knows, that He is. I have no idea exactly how He’ll accomplish His ends, or what percentage ends up with Him. It doesn't matter what trope or whose trope we know, we need to know Him, and then all religions and everything we think we know pale into insignificance, into “straw” as Aquinas put it after he was shown…the truth.

Goats don’t have to remain goats btw. They become and remain goats due to their choices, which determine their actions. The sheep loved, and acted accordingly. If you buy into the notion that God predestines some to eternal life and the rest to eternal punishment, eternal death, with no regard for their wills unless He changes those wills first, now that would be to swallow some nonsensical trope.

God is holy and just because of who He is expressed by what He does. Everything God does is right as it’s motivated by love.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

God is holy and just because of who He is expressed by what He does. Everything God does is right as it’s motivated by love.

Agreed, God is love, as the scripture says, and we are perfected when his love in us is made perfect. To suggest, as the OP in this thread does, that God is not Love, or that his love extends only to a few while all others are under his eternal wrath, is problematic at best.

No one has ever seen God. Yet if we love one another, God abides in us, and his love is perfected in us.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Well, that’s not my particular trope. God is love, and to know that love and ultimately be perfected in that love ourselves is to attain our very purpose, our telos. It’s a journey, and a very, very good one, that begins here. It’s to finally find the absolute fulfillment of all human desire which, when complete in the next life, is also the source of uncompromising, ineffable happiness. That’s what God has always wanted for man, from the beginning, and we won’t find it until we rest in Him. Adam departed from it when he turned away from God. All of the human misery and sin and victimization that has been witnessed and experienced and participated in down through the centuries is directly related to our distance from Him.

He wants all to come to Him, to continuously know the love that He knows, that He is. I have no idea exactly how He’ll accomplish His ends, or what percentage ends up with Him. It doesn't matter what trope or whose trope we know, we need to know Him, and then all religions and everything we think we know pale into insignificance, into “straw” as Aquinas put it after he was shown…the truth.

Goats don’t have to remain goats btw. They become and remain goats due to their choices, which determine their actions. The sheep loved, and acted accordingly. If you buy into the notion that God predestines some to eternal life and the rest to eternal punishment, eternal death, with no regard for their wills unless He changes those wills first, now that would be to swallow some nonsensical trope.

God is holy and just because of who He is expressed by what He does. Everything God does is right as it’s motivated by love.

That is an very fine and lofty sentiment, indeed. I suppose you subscribe to the belief that the untold billions of humans who will be cast into the lake of fire which burns forever and ever will be cast because of the ineffable love of God for them.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Agreed, God is love, as the scripture says, and we are perfected when his love in us is made perfect. To suggest, as the OP in this thread does, that God is not Love, or that his love extends only to a few while all others are under his eternal wrath, is problematic at best.

No one has ever seen God. Yet if we love one another, God abides in us, and his love is perfected in love.

It may be problematic for you, but, unfortunately, it is clearly stated in scripture that, as Jesus said, broad is the road that leads to destruction and many are on it, but narrow is the path that leads to everlasting life and few there be that find it.

There is no equivocation in scripture that there is absolutely no salvation outside of Jesus Christ.

 

[fhansen]

That is an very fine and lofty sentiment, indeed. I suppose you subscribe to the belief that the untold billions of humans who will be cast into the lake of fire which burns forever and ever will be cast because of the ineffable love of God for them.

Yes, God's ways are lofty. And you suppose-or presume, anyway-much. Whoever ends up in the lake of fire suffers the pain of rejecting love over cold selfish pride. We already experience it here, alienated from God and oriented towards self at birth as it were, meaning that this life is a sort of half-way house between heaven and hell, where both good and evil are literally known, directly, viscerally, and we can choose between the two. God's love means that He desires all to come to Him, certainly not that He should desire that any of us poor fools should suffer eternal torment- the torment of a loveless existence.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yes, God's ways are lofty. And you suppose-or presume, anyway-much. Whoever ends up in the lake of fire suffers the pain of rejecting love over cold selfish pride. We already experience it here, alienated from God and oriented towards self at birth as it were, meaning that this life is a sort of half-way house between heaven and hell, where both good and evil are literally known, directly, viscerally, and we can choose between the two. God's love means that He desires all to come to Him, certainly not that He should desire that any of us poor fools should suffer eternal torment- the torment of a loveless existence.

Curiously, you seem to pass judgement on entire cultures of people who, all things considered, only differ from yourself in one aspect - they will never hear the name of Jesus Christ nor have the slightest opportunity to come to Him, despite God's stated desire. You apparently believe that no heathen is capable of any love and all live pathetic, loveless, brutish existences which can only be blessed by an early death and, in the end, the eternal fire of the lake.

 

[fhansen]

Curiously, you seem to pass judgement on entire cultures of people who, all things considered, only differ from yourself in one aspect - they will never hear the name of Jesus Christ nor have the slightest opportunity to come to Him, despite God's stated desire. You apparently believe that no heathen is capable of any love and all live pathetic, loveless, brutish existences which can only be blessed by an early death and, in the end, the eternal fire of the lake.

Oh, did you mistake me for another poster? Or do you just like to make up stuff as you go along?