"Fleshly" What Are You Talking About??

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Some people say "sex" is a worldly passion or a fleshly desire... yet that's certainly not in contradion to a Biblical principal. Do you see the problem I'm having? It's seems so subjective.

pursuing sexual gratification outside of marriage is a worldly passion.

 

[Tetra]

pursuing sexual gratification outside of marriage is a worldly passion.

You're qualifying it. Sex, in and of itself is not therefore "fleshly" correct?

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

My apologies maybe I misunderstood. To the OP if I did, forgive me.

As it is written, "The spirit and the flesh are at war, so you cannot do as you please."

Before a person is Born of God, they are completely "In the flesh". That is to say, their spirit is truly "godless" and it includes everyone since the first trangression of mankind. They are either alone, or possessed by devils, living within the darkness of their own soul, and they are COMPLETELY bound to their own carnal "man" (that is the "flesh") to obey it's every desire, aka the desires of the flesh. They are literally "in the flesh". Their spirit and their sinful flesh are united, their soul is enchained to the desires of the body, which is in turn, led and dominated by the whole "world", which is completely under the power of Satan. So before you receive the Holy Spirit, the order of Authority for the condemned goes like this... Satan>World>Flesh>You.

When a person is "Born Again", the Spirit of God, aka the Spirit of Christ, is deposited thru Christ into the soul of the person and thereby God joins Himself with "YOU" within your soul, joining His Spirit with yours, and gently becoming the Lord of your heart/soul, and you become unified or "one" with God in Spirit. The Spirit of God, having been placed in believers, making them "Born Again", grows within them the desire and ability to Obey the Will of God. So AFTER you receive the Spirit of God, the order of authority for the Redeemed/saved/delivered goes like this Father>Son>Spirit>You>Your Body This is the ORIGINAL CONDITION God created Man to be in. And it results in PEACE WITH GOD AND EVERYTHING ELSE (except those under Satan's power. See above)

This is the 'reconciliation' Jesus Christ made possible when He BECAME sin for us on the Cross, bearing our iniquity in His OWN body, and having His own Righteous Blood poured out for our sins. Jesus IS the only True and Spotless Lamb of God who takes away our sins! (Thank you Jesus!). His Death was for our Sanctification (being picked out and cleaned) and His resurrection was for our "justification" (making right the wrong we had done against God). Now anyone born of God cannot continue to sin because (as it is written) "the seed of God dwells in him, and he cannot continue to sin". The Spirit of God fills the believer in Jesus Christ with the very Spirit of the Power of God that resurrected Jesus from the grave, and thereby allows the believer to follow in the Way of God and have dominion (power and authority) OVER their flesh, instead of being DOMINATED by their flesh. As Paul said (and this is true of all, even those "Born Again").... "There is NOTHING GOOD in me, that is in my flesh (specifically)". The Holy Spirit is the only Good in ANYONE except God. EVERYTHING about God is truly Good.

Whoever is "unborn" (not yet born of God) is COMPLETELY dominated by their flesh, bound to do it's desires, which (since sin entered the world) will always tempt, leading them to sin, which will lead to death, Hell, and the Lake of Fire, because it (the "flesh") is by nature, our sinful nature (ever since the entry of sin into the world that occurred when man sinned). This is why Jesus earnestly said "You MUST be Born Again." and again He said "Unless a man is Born Again, he CANNOT see the Kingdom of Heaven".

Therefore, the "second birth" is NECESSARY to overcome sin in your flesh, sin in the world, and the power of the tempter, our Enemy Satan, who desires all men to be destroyed. Only being "Born Again" aka "Born from Above", or receiving the "Second Birth", aka "Receiving the Spirit", etc..... will allow you to overcome the Devil, this corrupted world, and the very sin in your own flesh. This is because God's own Holy Spirit is given to all who believe in Jesus and ask the Father for the Spirit of Holiness. Jesus did the work. The Holy Spirit finishes it in us. And God receives all the Glory and all my praise. Forever. AMEN!

You MUST be Born Again!

 

[Tetra]

As it is written, "The spirit and the flesh are at war, so you cannot do as you please."

Before a person is Born of God, they are completely "In the flesh". That is to say, their spirit is truly "godless" and it includes everyone since the first trangression of mankind. They are either alone, or possessed by devils, living within the darkness of their own soul, and they are COMPLETELY bound to their own carnal "man" (that is the "flesh") to obey it's every desire, aka the desires of the flesh. They are literally "in the flesh". Their spirit and their sinful flesh are united, their soul is enchained to the desires of the body, which is in turn, led and dominated by the whole "world", which is completely under the power of Satan. So before you receive the Holy Spirit, the order of Authority for the condemned goes like this... Satan>World>Flesh>You.

When a person is "Born Again", the Spirit of God, aka the Spirit of Christ, is deposited thru Christ into the soul of the person and thereby God joins Himself with "YOU" within your soul, joining His Spirit with yours, and gently becoming the Lord of your heart/soul, and you become unified or "one" with God in Spirit. The Spirit of God, having been placed in believers, making them "Born Again", grows within them the desire and ability to Obey the Will of God. So AFTER you receive the Spirit of God, the order of authority for the Redeemed/saved/delivered goes like this Father>Son>Spirit>You>Your Body This is the ORIGINAL CONDITION God created Man to be in. And it results in PEACE WITH GOD AND EVERYTHING ELSE (except those under Satan's power. See above)

This is the 'reconciliation' Jesus Christ made possible when He BECAME sin for us on the Cross, bearing our iniquity in His OWN body, and having His own Righteous Blood poured out for our sins. Jesus IS the only True and Spotless Lamb of God who takes away our sins! (Thank you Jesus!). His Death was for our Sanctification (being picked out and cleaned) and His resurrection was for our "justification" (making right the wrong we had done against God). Now anyone born of God cannot continue to sin because (as it is written) "the seed of God dwells in him, and he cannot continue to sin". The Spirit of God fills the believer in Jesus Christ with the very Spirit of the Power of God that resurrected Jesus from the grave, and thereby allows the believer to follow in the Way of God and have dominion (power and authority) OVER their flesh, instead of being DOMINATED by their flesh. As Paul said (and this is true of all, even those "Born Again").... "There is NOTHING GOOD in me, that is in my flesh (specifically)". The Holy Spirit is the only Good in ANYONE except God. EVERYTHING about God is truly Good.

Whoever is "unborn" (not yet born of God) is COMPLETELY dominated by their flesh, bound to do it's desires, which (since sin entered the world) will always tempt, leading them to sin, which will lead to death, Hell, and the Lake of Fire, because it (the "flesh") is by nature, our sinful nature (ever since the entry of sin into the world that occurred when man sinned). This is why Jesus earnestly said "You MUST be Born Again." and again He said "Unless a man is Born Again, he CANNOT see the Kingdom of Heaven".

Therefore, the "second birth" is NECESSARY to overcome sin in your flesh, sin in the world, and the power of the tempter, our Enemy Satan, who desires all men to be destroyed. Only being "Born Again" aka "Born from Above", or receiving the "Second Birth", aka "Receiving the Spirit", etc..... will allow you to overcome the Devil, this corrupted world, and the very sin in your own flesh. This is because God's own Holy Spirit is given to all who believe in Jesus and ask the Father for the Spirit of Holiness. Jesus did the work. The Holy Spirit finishes it in us. And God receives all the Glory and all my praise. Forever. AMEN!

You MUST be Born Again!

Respectfully, I'd most likely disagree with your first paragraph, as it wouldn't be in align with the Doctrine of Common Grace.

 

[Colter]

When people say "fleshly", what the heck are they talking about? I keep seeing people write, that's "fleshly" things!!

I'm being serious here... if anyone with some solid hermeneutic skills could fill me in, that would be awesome... because it seems as though people just chuck that term out when they don't like what people say, but don't have an argument.

Does anyone know what this actually means and it's actual Biblical use?

It's a term that is synonymous with the abuse of human "instincts". The dominance of instincts over the priority of the spirit, of Gods will.

 

[W2L]

Galatians 5 breaks down these two quite well

I agree

 

[AlexDTX]

When people say "fleshly", what the heck are they talking about? I keep seeing people write, that's "fleshly" things!!

I'm being serious here... if anyone with some solid hermeneutic skills could fill me in, that would be awesome... because it seems as though people just chuck that term out when they don't like what people say, but don't have an argument.

Does anyone know what this actually means and it's actual Biblical use?

The flesh in the Bible refers to natural thinking at the exclusion of spiritual thinking. The creation is integrated. The spirit world and the physical world is one creation. However, when we ignore spiritual laws and the promises of God, we are thinking merely in the natural which is carnal or fleshly. It does not mean sex, although sensuality and sexuality are included. Nor does being spiritual exclude understanding of the natural. The psalmist said the horse was prepared by man but the battle belonged to the Lord. God gave man dominion over the Earth. We are to live with common sense, while living in the spirit. When Jesus was tempted by Satan to throw him self off the temple because angels would catch him, he still refused to disregard the common sense because we are not to tempt God. Nor can we eat junk food and expect divine health. So fleshly or carnality excludes the spiritual truth and spirituality includes natural truth.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

You're qualifying it. Sex, in and of itself is not therefore "fleshly" correct?

of course not(proverbs 5:18-19, 1 corinthians 7:3-5, hebrews 13:4)

sex is a gift from God to be enjoyed between a man and a woman in marriage.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

When people say "fleshly", what the heck are they talking about? I keep seeing people write, that's "fleshly" things!!

I'm being serious here... if anyone with some solid hermeneutic skills could fill me in, that would be awesome... because it seems as though people just chuck that term out when they don't like what people say, but don't have an argument.

Does anyone know what this actually means and it's actual Biblical use?

It is just a referrence to the carnal nature. I do think it is often misused generally or used to provide ad-hominem attacks.

 

[Tetra]

It is just a referrence to the carnal nature. I do think it is often misused generally or used to provide ad-hominem attacks.

That's what I was suspecting too.

 

[tturt]

"For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life -is not of the Father but is of the world." I John 2:16

"Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." Gal 5:19-21 There are additional Scriptures.

 

[W2L]

"For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life -is not of the Father but is of the world." I John 2:16

"Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." Gal 5:19-21 There are additional Scriptures.

John sure tells it plainly.

 

[Johnnz]

When people say "fleshly", what the heck are they talking about? I keep seeing people write, that's "fleshly" things!!

I'm being serious here... if anyone with some solid hermeneutic skills could fill me in, that would be awesome... because it seems as though people just chuck that term out when they don't like what people say, but don't have an argument.

Does anyone know what this actually means and it's actual Biblical use?

In the NT we see history divided into two ears at Pentecost - Pre-Spirit =('flesh) and Post-Spirit (=Spirit). 'Flesh is often used to designate anything outside of the Life of Christ lived out through us in the power of the Holly Spirit.

It is not our physical being, our bodily capacities or normal God-given human desires. That is a pagan belief.
It is not our sex drive.
It is not a denial of our God-created humaness

John
NZ

 

[GingerBeer]

When people say "fleshly", what the heck are they talking about? I keep seeing people write, that's "fleshly" things!!

I'm being serious here... if anyone with some solid hermeneutic skills could fill me in, that would be awesome... because it seems as though people just chuck that term out when they don't like what people say, but don't have an argument.

Does anyone know what this actually means and it's actual Biblical use?

"Fleshly" in the scriptures is about people placing something that is created ahead of God. The created thing can be self or it can be something desired more than God.

 

[Alithis]

When people say "fleshly", what the heck are they talking about? I keep seeing people write, that's "fleshly" things!!

I'm being serious here... if anyone with some solid hermeneutic skills could fill me in, that would be awesome... because it seems as though people just chuck that term out when they don't like what people say, but don't have an argument.

Does anyone know what this actually means and it's actual Biblical use?

happy to reply to the question of "what is freshly '.
can't give you hermeneutics though.
because i
interpreter," from hermeneuein "to interpret," of unknown origin (formerly considered ultimately a derivative of Hermes, as the tutelary divinity(god) of speech, writing, and eloquence and is an utterly PAGAN term.

things that are Fleshly refers to the sinful nature of the outer body and inner soul emotion thought realm .
Paul says in Ephesians 2. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. "- Ephesians 2:1-3

so we see the past tense in the words highlighted And the manner in which we ,as unsaved people lived,
ruled by our own thoughts (which are all gone astray) and by whatever our body wanted.
but once a person is born again of God's Spirit. they are made alive again in Christ and Christ in us.and we take back dominion by obeying the Holy Spirit and killing the thoughts and desires of the flesh (our body)and the mind .
when we do whatever self thinks is ok and don't consult God nor agree with his word we walk in error. whenever we allow our bodily desires to rule us..we fall short of God's righteousness .
only by living in and obeying the Holy Spirit will We Not serve the flesh but rule over it .

 

[Johnnz]

Hi Alithis,

Here are my comment son your post.

"things that are Fleshly refers to the sinful nature of the outer body and inner soul emotion thought realm .
Paul says in Ephesians 2. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. "- Ephesians 2:1-3

so we see the past tense in the words highlighted And the manner in which we ,as unsaved people lived,
ruled by our own thoughts (which are all gone astray) and by whatever our body wanted.
but once a person is born again of God's Spirit. they are made alive again in Christ and Christ in us.and we take back dominion by obeying the Holy Spirit and killing the thoughts and desires of the flesh (our body)and the mind .
when we do whatever self thinks is ok and don't consult God nor agree with his word we walk in error. whenever we allow our bodily desires to rule us..we fall short of God's righteousness .
only by living in and obeying the Holy Spirit will We Not serve the flesh but rule over it .[/QUOTE]"

Paul used the past tense to refer to a person's pre-Christ life

To equate 'flesh' with all our thoughts and bodily desires is far too narrow. "Flesh can include any forms of church life that don't allow for the expression of the Spirit, unconcern for the poor and disadvantaged, how a person uses any power they have to dominate or control. Your equation of 'desires of the flesh(body)' above is pure pagan, Greek based thinking.

I agree that self centeredness is the real issue, but that must never be defined in ways that deny our essential humanness. That would be an anti-Christian concept.

Nor do we rule over the flesh as if it were some internal enemy. We just allow the LIfe Of Christ to become more real and that is what displaces old habits and desires. This is what Paul is teaching in Romans 6 & 7 where he concludes his discourse on this matter with these words.
Rom 7:24-8:4 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. NIV

John
NZ

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

Respectfully, I'd most likely disagree with your first paragraph, as it wouldn't be in align with the Doctrine of Common Grace.

Which Scripture would that be?

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

Respectfully, I'd most likely disagree with your first paragraph, as it wouldn't be in align with the Doctrine of Common Grace.

Respectfully, if you don't understand earthly and fundamental concepts such as "the flesh", how could you understand heavenly and complex concepts such as "the Doctrine of Common Grace"?

If you don't understand flesh, how can you understand spirit?

 

[Tetra]

Respectfully, if you don't understand earthly and fundamental concepts such as "the flesh", how could you understand heavenly and complex concepts such as "the Doctrine of Common Grace"?

If you don't understand flesh, how can you understand spirit?

Ummm, the knowledge of one topic isn't dependant on a completely unrelated topic. This isn't sound reasoning.

I learned about the Doctrine of Common Grace in my early 20's while studying theology...

I take issue with the term "fleshly" because of its very subjective use.

How is this related?

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

Ummm, the knowledge of one topic isn't dependant on a completely unrelated topic. This isn't sound reasoning.

I learned about the Doctrine of Common Grace in my early 20's while studying theology...

I take issue with the term "fleshly" because of its very subjective use.

How is this related?

Not according to Jesus Christ.... "If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?" John 3:12