"Fleshly" What Are You Talking About??

[NeedyFollower]

I'm just out at the moment so can't respond in full... but to answer you regarding your last comments.

The reason I respond to it the way I do, is I find a pet peeve of mine, generally speaking, is when people randomly throw out terms in the middle of arguments. This terminology is often chucked out there like some sort of argument ending haymaker with no context.

I've heard it countless times... the problem is that it's used so randomly, no one can decipher it's meaning in its usage. I want to know the exact Biblical meaning so I can shut down future arguments where it's used incorrectly.

Hi Brother ..I believe Paul used an example elsewhere in 1 st Corinthians 3 :3 . And unfortunately I still see that tendency in me ..spiritual pride is the hardest for me to detect ...I have to check my "spirit" and my motives . Did I say that in love and meekness with the hope of restoration ? or did I just want to prove my point or demonstrate how wise and spiritual I was ( and in so doing , I actually demonstrate how spiritual I am NOT . ) For me I find it a battle to be in the spirit verses in the flesh . I hope that helps .

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

it means acting after the ways of the flesh in pursuing worldly passions.

whether you think that applies to you is something else, but that's what it means.

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

The flesh is my sinful nature. I used the word all the time to describe myself when my behaviors and thoughts do not line up with the Word. Honestly I have never heard anyone else use it except pastors on the radio occasionally when preaching on sin.

A few from Galatians come to mind:
The one who sows to please his sinful nature .... from that nature will reap destruction
live by the spirit, and you will .... not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the spirit .... and the spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature - they are in conflict with each other.

 

[rockytopva]

I have heard that the flesh and the devil are so akin that it is hard to discern between the two of them. If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

Comparing the light and the darkness, the opposite of E/c2 would be z (absolute zero)/ c (darkness)...

Natural z/d - Nothing, empty space.
Mental z/d - Again nothing but empty space.
Spiritual z/d - z (laziness, coldness, hatred / d (fear, despair, greed, sorrow)

The flesh is the natural and mental make up of man apart from the true spiritual light and energies of God.

Fleshly light and energy ---- Ego!

And I must say, that the unction of God is not fleshly ego! It is important to have the ability to discern between the two of them!

 

[Tetra]

it means acting after the ways of the flesh in pursuing worldly passions.

whether you think that applies to you is something else, but that's what it means.

It may or may not apply to me, I have no idea.

Can you further define "worldly passions"... are these passions explicitly expressed in the Bible? Or is it whatever any Christian feels is "worldly"? Do you know what I mean? I'm being serious, Christians seem to just chuck that's phrase out wherever... I'd just like to know when it actually applies, or not, based on what the Bible says.

 

[John Hyperspace]

generally speaking, is when people randomly throw out terms in the middle of arguments. This terminology is often chucked out there like some sort of argument ending haymaker with no context.

I've heard it countless times... the problem is that it's used so randomly, no one can decipher it's meaning in its usage.

Agreed. I believe scripture calls it "Babylon" aka "Babel" even though men call it "Christianity": no one understands one another's speech because the words have all become self-defined, and "Christianity" a mass of great linguistic confusion, great Babylon/Babel. <-same word in original language, English has just "confused" that fact by rendering "Babel" as "Babylon" in most translations.

Thank God for hope.

 

[JackRT]

This discussion has its roots in the ancient philosophy of dualism. Within a century of the crucifixion, Christianity had largely lost its Jewish roots and had become a Gentile and largely Greek speaking movement. Greek Philosophy was adopted pretty much wholesale in the early church, certainly much more so than in Judaism, although it was present there as well. In the philosophy of dualism almost everything was regarded as one of a pair of opposites. A few examples will suffice. In each pair that follows the first is regarded as a positive quality while the second is negative --- spiritual/carnal, light/dark, white/black, right/left, male/female, up/down, angelic/demonic --- you get the idea. This idea can and has been extended even in the modern day --- capitalism/socialism, creationism/evolution, Christianity/Islam, etc. The problem as I see it is that these pairs are highly idealized and are very seldom applicable in a real world situation. These qualities blend into each other. Seldom, if ever, do we encounter pure light or pure dark, mostly something in between. It is the same with moral and/or ethical decisions. Seldom is there a clear while/black decision because our moral lives are lived in shades of grey.

 

[Grandpa2390]

When people say "fleshly", what the heck are they talking about? I keep seeing people write, that's "fleshly" things!!

I'm being serious here... if anyone with some solid hermeneutic skills could fill me in, that would be awesome... because it seems as though people just chuck that term out when they don't like what people say, but don't have an argument.

Does anyone know what this actually means and it's actual Biblical use?

fleshly = Carnal

Carnal : relating to physical, especially sexual, needs and activities.

it comes from the categorizing of things as being of the Spirit, or of the Flesh. Spirit concerning the things of God with the Flesh concerning the things of this world.

essentially, we want to be in the spirit, concerned more with the things of God than the things of this world. We don't want to be carnal, obsessed with sex, food, money, etc.
Make sense?

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

It may or may not apply to me, I have no idea.

Can you further define "worldly passions"... are these passions explicitly expressed in the Bible? Or is it whatever any Christian feels is "worldly"? Do you know what I mean? I'm being serious, Christians seem to just chuck that's phrase out wherever... I'd just like to know when it actually applies, or not, based on what the Bible says.

anything that would be in contradiction to biblical principles. obviously one would need to be able to substantiate this with scripture in order for the label to be justified.

 

[Tetra]

fleshly = Carnal

Carnal : relating to physical, especially sexual, needs and activities.

it comes from the categorizing of things as being of the Spirit, or of the Flesh. Spirit concerning the things of God with the Flesh concerning the things of this world.

essentially, we want to be in the spirit, concerned more with the things of God than the things of this world. We don't want to be carnal, obsessed with sex, food, money, etc.
Make sense?

No it doesn't make sense to me. Are you saying the things of the world you defined above are bad, or only obsession with those things is bad? Can you elaborate more for me please?

 

[Tetra]

anything that would be in contradiction to biblical principles. obviously one would need to be able to substantiate this with scripture in order for the label to be justified.

Some people say "sex" is a worldly passion or a fleshly desire... yet that's certainly not in contradion to a Biblical principal. Do you see the problem I'm having? It's seems so subjective.

 

[writewords]

Flesh or freshly comes from the Greek sarkos or sarks. It is used generally In the NT for both flesh on one's body or for the sinful desires. More often than not, now, you are probably hearing "flesh(ly)" in reference to sin nature.

 

[JackRT]

In my understanding, our sexuality is that it is not inherently sinful in nature although there are Christians both past and present who would argue that point. It is when we follow our appetites to selfish extremes that they can become sinful.

 

[Tetra]

Another thought is that people who use the term "fleshly", and this ties into what @JackRT was saying a bit... why is everything pitted against each other?

If fleshly means physical things of the world, sex, food ect.

This confuses me further, isn't sex also spiritual?? Is eating JUST a physical act??

The way people use this term just seems subjective.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Depends on how its being used. For example Jesus died for our sins but as long as we are in these bodies we will always have "fleshy" desires. Fleshy in this case just means "human". Like when we are in heaven we won't have the sinful desires we did while in the flesh as humans.

 

[Tetra]

Depends on how its being used. For example Jesus died for our sins but as long as we are in these bodies we will always have "fleshy" desires. Fleshy in this case just means "human". Like when we are in heaven we won't have the sinful desires we did while in the flesh as humans.

I'm confused here as you just switched the terms definition in the same paragraph.

Just to clarify, are you saying "fleshly" is human desires and ALL human desires are sinful. OR, "fleshly" is just sinful desires?

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Sorry what I mean was we have desires as humans. Some sinful, some not. But usually in a christian definition we don't tend to to call non-sinful desires fleshy. Its why we usually just say fleshy when it comes to desires that are sinful. They are of the flesh. Where as desires that are good are of the Holy Spirit.

For example I had a inappropriate content addiction for a long time. It was my weak fleshy desire to want to see naked women. But the Holy Spirit convicted me of it so I had a new desire, which was to not look at inappropriate content. Its why they say being in these bodies is a battle between the spirit and the body.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

My humble opinion is that this falls into the category of "Christian-speak," otherwise known as language that Christians take for granted after having been exposed to the lingo long enough. My best effort to translate this term into secular terminology would be to say that:

Spiritual is to Fleshly
as
Superego is to Id

"Fleshly" is the Christian equivalent of the Id, which is not necessarily sinful, but it is necessarily base. Animals operate primarily in the Id/fleshly manner. At least, that's what we assume, though that may or may not be the reality of it. It boils down to simple motivation. If it hurts, then I escape it. If it feels good, then I pursue it. It's all simple pleasures, pride and basic self-interested behavior. All sins are motivated by these things, but these things don't always lead to sin.

The spiritual side, on the other hand, is a little less like the Superego concept, being that it is seen by Christians as a product imparted by the Holy Spirit. The secular Superego is only assumed to be a higher sort of idealism (how they determine what "higher" is I'll never know) that comes as a result of being something better and more human than the animals. Because secularism precludes any definition requiring the existence of God, and especially the Holy Spirit, the Superego is as close as secular understanding will ever get to knowing what it means to live according to the Spirit.

 

[Victor E.]

When people say "fleshly", what the heck are they talking about? I keep seeing people write, that's "fleshly" things!!

I'm being serious here... if anyone with some solid hermeneutic skills could fill me in, that would be awesome... because it seems as though people just chuck that term out when they don't like what people say, but don't have an argument.

Does anyone know what this actually means and it's actual Biblical use?

"Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." Galatians 5:19-21

 

[marineimaging]

carnate vs spiritual as I understand it.