"Fleshly" What Are You Talking About??

[Tetra]

When people say "fleshly", what the heck are they talking about? I keep seeing people write, that's "fleshly" things!!

I'm being serious here... if anyone with some solid hermeneutic skills could fill me in, that would be awesome... because it seems as though people just chuck that term out when they don't like what people say, but don't have an argument.

Does anyone know what this actually means and it's actual Biblical use?

 

[RaymondG]

It's a term that the high minded and prideful use to describe the actions of those who they deem are lower than themselves.
It was said that Humpty Dumpty used this term a lot....right before the great fall.

 

[Tetra]

It's a term that the high minded and prideful use to describe the actions of those who they deem are lower than themselves.
It was said that Humpty Dumpty used this term a lot....right before the great fall.

You're right that it seems to be used in an I'm-better-than-you sense.

I'm actually serious on what the original origin is though... it seems to be used in the context of having anything to do with sex, AND used as a negative (like sex is bad or something. lol).

 

[Solomons Porch]

And to add to that people use the same term when saying someone was acting in a sinful manner, which is what the flesh is, its sinful in nature, so when someone acts sinful people will say they are acting fleshy, I have also heard people say they were "acting in their flesh".

For instance if I was on the praise and dance team at a local church and at some point I begin to dance in a very lustful way or (bouncing my ounce around ) lol............... they would say I was dancing in my flesh (sinful way) thus also acting fleshy.

 

[Pilgrim]

When people say "fleshly", what the heck are they talking about? I keep seeing people write, that's "fleshly" things!!

I'm being serious here... if anyone with some solid hermeneutic skills could fill me in, that would be awesome... because it seems as though people just chuck that term out when they don't like what people say, but don't have an argument.

Does anyone know what this actually means and it's actual Biblical use?

I find the term used by the Apostle Paul second letter written to the Corinthians:

2 Corinthians 1:12 King James Version (KJV)

12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

--
From Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown: Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (1871)

godly sincerity—literally, “sincerity of God”; that is, sincerity as in the presence of God (1 Co 5:8). We glory in this in spite of all our adversities. Sincerity in Greek implies the non-admixture of any foreign element. He had no sinister or selfish aims (as some insinuated) in failing to visit them as he had promised: such aims belonged to his adversaries, not to him (2 Co 2:17). “Fleshly wisdom” suggests tortuous and insincere courses; but the “grace of God,” which influenced him by God’s gifts (Ro 12:3; 15:15), suggests holy straightforwardness and sincere faithfulness to promises (2 Co 1:17–20), even as God is faithful to His promises. The prudence which subserves selfish interests, or employs unchristian means, or relies on human means more than on the Divine Spirit, is “fleshly wisdom.”

 

[Tetra]

And to add to that people use the same term when saying someone was acting in a sinful manner, which is what the flesh is, its sinful in nature, so when someone acts sinful people will say they are acting fleshy, I have also heard people say they were "acting in their flesh".

For instance if I was on the praise and dance team at a local church and at some point I begin to dance in a very lustful way or (bouncing my ounce around ) lol............... they would say I was dancing in my flesh (sinful way) thus also acting fleshy.

Something isn't adding up, what you're suggesting here isn't how it's being used in the Bible as @Mr. O describes here:

I find the term used by the Apostle Paul second letter written to the Corinthians:

2 Corinthians 1:12 King James Version (KJV)

12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

--
From Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown: Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (1871)

godly sincerity—literally, “sincerity of God”; that is, sincerity as in the presence of God (1 Co 5:8). We glory in this in spite of all our adversities. Sincerity in Greek implies the non-admixture of any foreign element. He had no sinister or selfish aims (as some insinuated) in failing to visit them as he had promised: such aims belonged to his adversaries, not to him (2 Co 2:17). “Fleshly wisdom” suggests tortuous and insincere courses; but the “grace of God,” which influenced him by God’s gifts (Ro 12:3; 15:15), suggests holy straightforwardness and sincere faithfulness to promises (2 Co 1:17–20), even as God is faithful to His promises. The prudence which subserves selfish interests, or employs unchristian means, or relies on human means more than on the Divine Spirit, is “fleshly wisdom.”

I don't see what "fleshly wisdom" has to do with dancing provocatively. Unless I'm missing something?

 

[Solomons Porch]

Something isn't adding up, what you're suggesting here isn't how it's being used in the Bible as @Mr. O describes here:




I don't see what "fleshly wisdom" has to do with dancing provocatively. Unless I'm missing something?

My apologies maybe I misunderstood. To the OP if I did, forgive me.

 

[Pilgrim]

Perhaps more context regarding the term "fleshy" is required.

There are several uses and instances of the phrase "in the flesh" or "of the flesh" in the Bible.

Romans 8 for example.

It could generally mean: in the flesh—that is, in human nature...

 

[Pilgrim]

And to add to that people use the same term when saying someone was acting in a sinful manner, which is what the flesh is, its sinful in nature, so when someone acts sinful people will say they are acting fleshy, I have also heard people say they were "acting in their flesh".

For instance if I was on the praise and dance team at a local church and at some point I begin to dance in a very lustful way or (bouncing my ounce around ) lol............... they would say I was dancing in my flesh (sinful way) thus also acting fleshy.

I think this is also correct... In a sinful manner... that is, in human nature.

 

[Tetra]

Perhaps more context regarding the term "fleshy" is required.

There are several uses and instances of the phrase "in the flesh" or "of the flesh" in the Bible.

Romans 8 for example.

It could generally mean: in the flesh—that is, in human nature...

That's a fair comment, what I mean is though, people seem to just chuck out that term wherever giving zero context. Not saying you or Solomons Porch does that, just what I notice is all.

 

[Pilgrim]

That's a fair comment, what I mean is though, people seem to just chuck out that term wherever giving zero context. Not saying you or Solomons Porch does that, just what I notice is all.

In a straight forward manner, using laymen's terms, people would be better understood being direct and use the term "sinful nature" or "human nature" because that's what is be meant by the term "fleshy" or "in the flesh" or "of the flesh" ...

It always refers back to the sinful nature of man versus the Devine Nature of God; and as Christ who walked on earth, who "knew no sin"

 

[Tetra]

In a straight forward manner, using laymen's terms, people would be better understood being direct and use the term "sinful nature" or "human nature" because that's what is be meant by the term "fleshy" or "in the flesh" or "of the flesh" ...

It always refers back to the sinful nature of man versus the Devine Nature of God; and as Christ who walked on earth, who "knew no sin"

This would make WAY more sense. People "seem" to use it in reference to things they believe are of the world though, vs simply being sinful, you know what I mean?

People should just say, I think that's sinful. Would really help me out. Haha.

 

[Pilgrim]

This would make WAY more sense. People "seem" to use it in reference to things they believe are of the world though, vs simply being sinful, you know what I mean?

People should just say, I think that's sinful. Would really help me out. Haha.

Not to beat a dead horse, but one final point of clarification:

Isn't "of the world" and "sinful" synonymous? I think they are....

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. (1 John 2:16)

 

[Tetra]

Not to beat a dead horse, but one final point of clarification:

Isn't "of the world" and "sinful" synonymous? I think they are....

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. (1 John 2:16)

No, most definitely not synonymous.

There seems to be differing opinions on this, but I'd maintain this position (bolded below), based on the Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges explanation:

"The material contents of the universe cannot be meant. To say that these did not originate from God would be to contradict the Apostle himself (John 1:3; John 1:10) and to affirm those Gnostic doctrines against which he is contending. ... By ‘all that is in the world’ is meant the spirit which animates it, its tendencies and tone. These, which are utterly opposed to God, did not originate in Him, but in the free and rebellious wills of His creatures, seduced by ‘the ruler of this world’."

 

[Milo]

Pride is of its own origin. Pride should come from religionism which is not so great. Fleshly is something Biblical especially when the Bible mentions being spiritually minded rather than fleshly minded. I would say being fleshly minded is mostly not viewing the world from Heaven-down. Instead giving way to things of the world. Giving way to things of the flesh and fulfilling the lusts of the flesh are Biblical things. No pride involved with Biblical things.

 

[SPF]

Scripture uses the term "flesh" in more than one way.

Matthew 26:41 - "Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

John 1:14 - "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."

John 3:6 - That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Acts 2:26 - "Therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced; my flesh also will dwell in hope."

Substituting the term "sinful nature" for flesh in the above passages would not work. However, there are also passages that link our flesh to our sinful nature. But it's more than that. Here's what Martin Luther said about it:

“Thou must not understand ‘flesh,’ therefore, as though that only were ‘flesh’ which is connected with unchastity, but St. Paul uses ‘flesh’ of the whole man, body, and soul, reason, and all his faculties included, because all that is in him longs and strives after the flesh.”

Luther’s comments point out that “flesh” equates to affections and desires that run contrary to God, not only in the area of sexual activity, but in every area of life.

Susanna Wesley, mother of John and Charles Wesley described sin and the flesh like this: "Whatever weakens your reasoning, impairs the tenderness of your conscience, obscures your sense of God, or takes away your relish for spiritual things, in short – if anything increases the authority and the power of the flesh over the Spirit, that to you becomes sin however good it is in itself.”

I find your reaction to people who use the term as descriptive of behavior to be what's the interesting part in your post. Could it be that since you didn't actually know what it meant that that was the driving force behind your not liking the term or thinking that people were using it as some empty phrase? I've personally never felt as you do when I hear people refer to behavior from the flesh. That phrase is certainly one of those "church phrases" that non-Christians who aren't familiar with is would be like "huh? What in the world is he talking about?" But to those of us in the church, we should understand what it means.

Honestly, if you spend time in the Word, you will come across the term flesh quite often, so I'm surprised it's so new to you. It's used well over 100 times in the NT alone.

​

 

[OpenYourBibles]

When people say "fleshly", what the heck are they talking about? I keep seeing people write, that's "fleshly" things!!

I'm being serious here... if anyone with some solid hermeneutic skills could fill me in, that would be awesome... because it seems as though people just chuck that term out when they don't like what people say, but don't have an argument.

Does anyone know what this actually means and it's actual Biblical use?

In America, I haven't met to many people that actually like to eat "chili" in fact most American's prefer "Chili con carne" that is chili with meat, as opposed to just chili - sauce and beans.

Carne in spanish - meat - is the same word in the Bible Carnal (i.e. Romans 8:7 the carnal mind is enmity against God) it is also used interchangeably with the word you are asking about, flesh or fleshly. Fleshly things are things whose purpose is to glorify, sedate, or otherwise make our flesh, our meat, our earthly bodies comfortable, and it is usually at the negative expense of our spiritual welfare. Galatians 5 breaks down these two quite well, as does Romans 8. In Galatians 5:19 it lists all of the behaviors that can be associated with a "fleshly" mindset (i.e. the works of the flesh) while verse 22 goes on to chronicle the products of a spiritual mind - the fruit of the spirit.

Hopefully that helps!

 

[W2L]

Learn what the scriptures teach us about the Spirit and you will know what fleshy is not.

 

[Tetra]

Scripture uses the term "flesh" in more than one way.

Matthew 26:41 - "Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

John 1:14 - "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."

John 3:6 - That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Acts 2:26 - "Therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced; my flesh also will dwell in hope."

Substituting the term "sinful nature" for flesh in the above passages would not work. However, there are also passages that link our flesh to our sinful nature. But it's more than that. Here's what Martin Luther said about it:

“Thou must not understand ‘flesh,’ therefore, as though that only were ‘flesh’ which is connected with unchastity, but St. Paul uses ‘flesh’ of the whole man, body, and soul, reason, and all his faculties included, because all that is in him longs and strives after the flesh.”

Luther’s comments point out that “flesh” equates to affections and desires that run contrary to God, not only in the area of sexual activity, but in every area of life.

Susanna Wesley, mother of John and Charles Wesley described sin and the flesh like this: "Whatever weakens your reasoning, impairs the tenderness of your conscience, obscures your sense of God, or takes away your relish for spiritual things, in short – if anything increases the authority and the power of the flesh over the Spirit, that to you becomes sin however good it is in itself.”

I find your reaction to people who use the term as descriptive of behavior to be what's the interesting part in your post. Could it be that since you didn't actually know what it meant that that was the driving force behind your not liking the term or thinking that people were using it as some empty phrase? I've personally never felt as you do when I hear people refer to behavior from the flesh. That phrase is certainly one of those "church phrases" that non-Christians who aren't familiar with is would be like "huh? What in the world is he talking about?" But to those of us in the church, we should understand what it means.

Honestly, if you spend time in the Word, you will come across the term flesh quite often, so I'm surprised it's so new to you. It's used well over 100 times in the NT alone.

​

I'm just out at the moment so can't respond in full... but to answer you regarding your last comments.

The reason I respond to it the way I do, is I find a pet peeve of mine, generally speaking, is when people randomly throw out terms in the middle of arguments. This terminology is often chucked out there like some sort of argument ending haymaker with no context.

I've heard it countless times... the problem is that it's used so randomly, no one can decipher it's meaning in its usage. I want to know the exact Biblical meaning so I can shut down future arguments where it's used incorrectly.

 

[Stefo]

When people say "fleshly", what the heck are they talking about? I keep seeing people write, that's "fleshly" things!!

I'm being serious here... if anyone with some solid hermeneutic skills could fill me in, that would be awesome... because it seems as though people just chuck that term out when they don't like what people say, but don't have an argument.

Does anyone know what this actually means and it's actual Biblical use?

We are taught that if we walk in the ways of God, it is not us that lives, but Christ within us - meaning that we are aware that it is because of Christ that we are alive in the first place, and that we can have Him act through us in order to know Him, love him, love our neighbour, and do good. If we forget this, then we're given over to the mentality of believing we are the cause of everything. From here must come thoughts, feelings and actions based on one or more of the 7 deadly sins. To live as such is 'fleshly'