Flat Earth Theory.

[BNR32FAN]

No, because I lack your motivation - I do not think the genre of Genesis has anything to do with such things. Thats why I have no motivation to attack (or defend) the mainstream scientific theories. I will gladly leave it to scientific debates.

I hope my post didn’t come off as an attack I was merely trying to demonstrate how they could possibly be wrong. I don’t recall saying anything derogatory towards science or scientists. I’m sure you would agree that it’s not hard to tell when my intention is to be derogatory towards someone.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That's why it's symbolism.
Saying Genesis teaches that God created the earth in 144 hours - i.e 6 literal 24 hour periods - is reading into the text.
How did they measure a day before the sun and moon had been created on "day" 4?

God specifically told us how it was measured in Genesis 1:3-5

”Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1‬:‭3‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

According to this there was day and there was night on day one.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Genesis 1 is not a science textbook. It doesn't provide much information at all. HOW did God create something from nothing? How did he make trees - as seeds, saplings or fully grown? All God said was "let the land produce vegetation".
What about the animals; all babies that grew up? Did he make frogspawn and wait for that to develop into frogs? Did he create eggs and wait for them to hatch? Did he create 1 self pollinating plant and then let it get on with it?
See? No information at all.

You’re asking questions that are not answered in the scriptures. I haven’t given any answers to any questions that aren’t given in the scriptures. Does the Bible tell us how long it took for God to create the earth?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Genesis 1 is not a science textbook. It doesn't provide much information at all. HOW did God create something from nothing? How did he make trees - as seeds, saplings or fully grown? All God said was "let the land produce vegetation".
What about the animals; all babies that grew up? Did he make frogspawn and wait for that to develop into frogs? Did he create eggs and wait for them to hatch? Did he create 1 self pollinating plant and then let it get on with it?
See? No information at all.

Is Genesis a history book?

 

[trophy33]

You do realize the date on your first black & white photo
The second one isn't that clever either.

Sure I realize the date, thats why I posted it. I selected one old one (before any CGI) and one modern one, from a French astronaut who was on the ISS.

Do you have anything intelligent to say about them?

 

[trophy33]

Where did Genesis come from? Did it come from the imagination of men, or did it come to man from God?

Neither. Its neither just an imagination nor a dictation from God. Mythology reflects the experience of people, but uses various literary devices to create a meaningful order from them - to create a story.

It came from the Jews in Babylon (most probably), who struggled with finding their identity. They created the origin story of their people, beginning it with Adam (its a Hebrew word), and rooted it in their faith in one God, in the opposition to Babylonian creation myths. They might use some traditions or genealogy names they had records of and incorporated them into the story.

However, I have a question. Why do you accept talking snake, days repetition or man being formed from dust as literal, but not the lights in the firmament, i.e. the flat earth and geocentric cosmology? Its virtually in the same text. Or why dont you accept that our thoughts are literally in our kidneys, as Bible says?

 

[trophy33]

God specifically told us how it was measured in Genesis 1:3-5

”Then God said, “Let there be light”...

God told us "Then God said..."? If it was dictated by God, it would be "Then I said...".

Its obviously a mythological story told by a man, because God is referred to in the third person.

 

[BNR32FAN]

All God said was "let the land produce vegetation".

And what happened after that?

”Then God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them”; and it was so. The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good.“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1‬:‭11‬-‭12‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

When does it say this happened?

”There was evening and there was morning, a third day.“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1‬:‭13‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So God said more than just “let the ground bring forth vegetation”. He also said that the earth brought forth plants yielding seeds and trees bearing fruit. So apparently He gave us more information than what you’re claiming here.

What about the animals; all babies that grew up?

Do you really think God created baby animals? Were Adam & Eve also babies? Because the scriptures say that Adam & Eve were both created on the sixth day.

”Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so. God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1‬:‭26‬-‭31‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The scriptures also say that Adam named all the animals before Eve was created.

”Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him.“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

”So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. The Lord God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2‬:‭21‬-‭22‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

If Adam & Eve were made in the same day and Adam named all of the animals before Eve was created then he probably wasn’t a baby.

Did he make frogspawn and wait for that to develop into frogs?

From what I’m seeing He made everything as adults so they were able to care for themselves. I guess he could’ve made frog eggs because they pretty much care for themselves as long as their environment is adequate but I don’t see the point of this question.

Did he create eggs and wait for them to hatch?

Well we know He didn’t do that for the birds according to Genesis 2:19-20 since Adam named them. Unless you think God brought all the eggs to Adam and he named all the eggs.

Did he create 1 self pollinating plant and then let it get on with it?
See? No information at all.

I already answered this above when I quoted Genesis 1:11-12.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Neither. Its neither just an imagination nor a dictation from God. Mythology reflects the experience of people, but uses various literary devices to create a meaningful order from them - to create a story.

It came from the Jews in Babylon (most probably), who struggled with finding their identity. They created the origin story of their people, beginning it with Adam (its a Hebrew word), and rooted it in their faith in one God, in the opposition to Babylonian creation myths. They might use some traditions or genealogy names they had records of and incorporated them into the story.

However, I have a question. Why do you accept talking snake, days repetition or man being formed from dust as literal, but not the lights in the firmament, i.e. the flat earth and geocentric cosmology? It’s virtually in the same text. Or why dont you accept that our thoughts are literally in our kidneys, as Bible says?

Ok so you say it’s not from man’s imagination and it’s not from God’s instruction so where did the information for Genesis 1 come from if it all happened before the first man was created? If it didn’t come from God where did the creation account come from because it is impossible for it to have come from an eyewitness testimony. So that means if it didn’t come from God the only place it could come from is from man’s imagination.

 

[BNR32FAN]

However, I have a question. Why do you accept talking snake, days repetition or man being formed from dust as literal, but not the lights in the firmament, i.e. the flat earth and geocentric cosmology? Its virtually in the same text. Or why dont you accept that our thoughts are literally in our kidneys, as Bible says?

The “firmament” can have numerous meanings. I don’t know if you’ve noticed but I use the NASB version not the KJV because it’s a lot more accurate to the original texts. The NASB uses the word “expanse” which seems to make more sense.

Genesis 1:14 Lexicon: Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years;

biblehub.com

Personally I believe the raquia or “expanse” is referring to the atmosphere since it’s made up of hydrogen, oxygen, and argon, all three of which are present in water. So this causes no problems with the lights being placed in the expanse.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Or why dont you accept that our thoughts are literally in our kidneys, as Bible says?

I’m not aware of any passage that says this. What passage are you referring to?

 

[BNR32FAN]

God told us "Then God said..."? If it was dictated by God, it would be "Then I said...".

Its obviously a mythological story told by a man, because God is referred to in the third person.

Unless God told Moses what to write so Moses wrote it in the third person.

 

[BNR32FAN]

God told us "Then God said..."? If it was dictated by God, it would be "Then I said...".

It’s obviously a mythological story told by a man, because God is referred to in the third person.

What you’ve basically said here is exactly what separates our interpretations. I believe what is written in Genesis 1 and you don’t. That’s what it all comes down to.

 

[d taylor]

Fake photos not as accurate as a drawing or story about a story or drawing...

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You have your observation and i have mine. So if we were out in a field, park on the beach, prove to me the moon is a sphere.

 

[Apple Sky]

@BNR32FAN I agree with every one of your posts & I reckon God would too. Thanks.

 

[weekEd]

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​

You have your observation and i have mine. So if we were out in a field, park on the beach, prove to me the moon is a sphere.

Prove to me the moon exists

 

[trophy33]

Ok so you say it’s not from man’s imagination and it’s not from God’s instruction so where did the information for Genesis 1 come from if it all happened before the first man was created? If it didn’t come from God where did the creation account come from because it is impossible for it to have come from an eyewitness testimony. So that means if it didn’t come from God the only place it could come from is from man’s imagination.

The story is a mythos, a creation drama. Its not just an imagination, because experiences (like "there are lights in the sky" or "humans turn to dust after death", "males and females are more similar to each other than to any other creature") are reflected in this mythos.

So it came from mixed sources - Jewish views, the truths of life, sensoric experiences, maybe some other already known stories (like the flood).

If you mean whether the 6-days cycle structure of the creation is imaginative, then yes, its not literal.

 

[trophy33]

The “firmament” can have numerous meanings. I don’t know if you’ve noticed but I use the NASB version not the KJV because it’s a lot more accurate to the original texts. The NASB uses the word “expanse” which seems to make more sense.

Genesis 1:14 Lexicon: Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years;

biblehub.com

Personally I believe the raquia or “expanse” is referring to the atmosphere since it’s made up of hydrogen, oxygen, and argon, all three of which are present in water. So this causes no problems with the lights being placed in the expanse.

Everything can have numerous meanings, days, trees, dust, so why do you accept literal reading of one, but not of another?

Your belief that its atmosphere will not help you much, because the sun, the moon or the stars are not in our atmosphere any more than in a firmament.

 

[trophy33]

I’m not aware of any passage that says this. What passage are you referring to?

Psalm 73:21 When my heart was grieved and I was pierced within,
... and I was pricked in my reins. And I am troubled; my heart and my kidneys rage against me.

Proverbs 23:16 My inmost being will rejoice when your lips speak what is right.
... right. Yea, my heart shall rejoice when your lips speak right things. And my kidneys will be glad whenever your lips speak uprightness.

Psalm 16:7 I will bless the LORD who counsels me; even at night my conscience instructs ...
... also instructs me in the nights. I shall bless Lord Jehovah who counsels me and my kidneys teach me in the nights.

Psalm 26:2 Test me, O LORD, and try me; examine my heart and mind.
... and my heart, Prove me, Lord Jehovah, and test me, and examine my kidneys and my heart. Examine me, O LORD, and test me. Look closely into ...

Psalm 7:9 Put an end to the evil of the wicked, but establish the righteous, O righteous God ...
... the wicked and establish the righteous; God, the Righteous One proves the heart and the kidneys.

Revelation 2:23 Then I will strike her children dead, and all the churches will know that I am the ...
... shall kill her children by Death, and all the assemblies will know that I search the kidneys and the hearts, and I shall give to everyone of you according to your works.

---

In most translations its hidden from your sight and interpreted in a modern way, so you must check the original language what it literally means.

 

[trophy33]

Unless God told Moses what to write so Moses wrote it in the third person.

Or Moses got it in a vision, so its not a record of creation, but of the vision. Or Moses wrote a theater play for children. Or Moses just compiled other existing sources. Or he used some Egyptian/Babylonian mythology and rewrote it to be monotheistic. Or it was not written by Moses at all and he is just a traditional author. We can create various speculations how it was written, using our fantasy.

But if we are to build our view on things as they appear to be (i.e. to be scientific and also to accept the era in which the text originated), the story is simply not literal and its a creation mythos which were common and wide spread in the times.