Faith: How does a person get it

[Hazelelponi]

Hazelelponi what in the world,how in the world can I reply to this lot. come on now.

There are times the Bible makes a clear delineation, and other times it does not.

I was just trying to make a more clear line between belief (mind, heart) and action, since you brought up non-believers.

You can't really look at someone who doesn't have any belief whatsoever and tell them if they believe they'll be saved....

All you can do is to tell them about the belief you have, and why (reasoning) you have it...

We have a very reasonable faith...you just can't necessarily demand someone without any get it as if it's something they effort their way into.

 

[All Glory To God]

Yes, fundamentally agreed. This actually is parallel to the very longstanding "monergism" (your salvation is all God) versus "synergism" (your salvation is partly you) debate that has gone on for centuries without definitive resolution. I put this -overall- question on the list of Mysteries of God, beyond full human earthly comprehension. However it proceeds (and I am in no way suggesting that a direct supernatural experience is necessary for salvation), you seemed to be looking for a scriptural basis for the fundamental notion of direct experience, and I think that verse is relevant. This is also a topic of longstanding debate, which you could look into if you like under the topic of "hesychasm" (for one), which was a significant historical point of contention between Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy.

Synergistics believe in cooperating with Gods will,a partnership with God or whatever words they would use. If that is true, I would expect God to give us the instructions to carry this task out via one of his scribes but it appears the Synergistic advocates cannot show this. The most obvious reason is because it is not our task to bring creation to salvation.

 

[All Glory To God]

AGG,

So when the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas, 'Sirs, what must I do to be saved?' Their response was not: 'You need to be unconditionally elected, sharers in Christ's limited atonement, and irresistible grace needs to be extended to you'.

Instead, the jailer asked: 'Sirs, what must I do to be saved?' (Acts 16:30 NIV).

The reply from Paul and Silas was: 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved – you and your household. Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house' (Acts 16:31-32 NIV).

'Believe' is a command in the Greek language. This would be a useless command if it could not be implemented by the jailer and his household.

Oz

Saved from what?

 

[fhansen]

I am not convinced on the Knowledge leads to faith argument,I do not think there has been a strong case or evidence to support it here but that is just my view.

And IMO in light of the bible from Genesis through Revelation, the story of God's dealing with man is one of His gradually turning up the light, patiently working with and cultivating humankind to the point where we might just be ready to receive the full light once we're shown it, once we meet it in the person of Jesus Christ, and not turn back to the flesh. God is calling, soliciting, drawing us to make a willful response, just a weak one at first most likely, by giving us the knowledge and grace to say "yes", while also allowing us the possibility to say "no". Adam originally said "no" and was allowed to fall, suffering the consequences. But God had a plan in place already of course, and Adam's fall was just a detour on man's journey back to rising again-as we will-with the help of grace.

The entire story of the fall of man and the centuries of pain, suffering, sin, and death that ensued really makes sense only if there's a reason behind this temporal experience, this exile. And that reason has to do with our living in a state of existence effectively apart from our Creator, apart from the partnership or communion with Him that we were made for, with all that experience might entail including living in a world where man's will reigns, and not always at all reigning lovingly as our Creator would do, and as He does in heaven. Here we can develop a hunger and thirst for justice or righteousness, a hunger and thirst for God. Here we might learn the wisdom of Jesus' words in John 15:5: "Apart from Me you can do nothing." Adam didn't get that concept in Eden.

If not for this educative or formative aspect of living in this kind of world, walled off from knowing where we came from, if anywhere, what we're here for, if for anything, and where we're going, if anywhere (aka "lost"), and a world where evil, and by contrast good, can be experienced-can be literally known-and so identified and separated and chosen between, then there's really no reason for such an ofttimes ugly world at all. God may as well have just stocked heaven with the elect and hell with the reprobate from the get-go and avoided this world's evils and suffering. But here we can gain an appreciation for being found, for embracing goodness, for choosing God when He calls, for saying "yes".

 

[OzSpen]

Saved from what?

It couldn't be saved from the hailstorm, accidentally going over Niagara Falls, or attacks from magpies.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

The Bible says unless a person believes in Jesus Christ as their Lord and saviour they are separated from God.

How exactly does this faith in Christ come about, from scripture. "Soul winners" will knock on people's door or go out street preaching the message "believe in Jesus" and I agree faith is needed. The question is: How do we do that? Specifically how can a lost person get faith in Jesus?

All are called by God...
Romans 8:30:
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
So the call is a moving within one to seek God which then the individual acts upon and grows up as far as the Lord is willing for him to grow.

 

[Jason0009]

How I got faith was when I repented to God. I am still so ashamed of my sins and actions. I am eternally indebted to God. And he granted me grace and thus my faith was strengthened in him. I still struggle with it everyday. But I pray daily to him.

 

[Psalm 27]

Well you claim Cornelius was performing Godly acts and a Godly person but my question is to which God were these deeds dedicated to?

Acts 10:1-2
There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment, 2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always


This doesn't actually say what God,does it? And in a time when the Jewish Christians were living under Roman occupation the common religion would be Paganism. We know proof-positive it existed from acts also

Acts 14:11-13
Now when the people saw what Paul had done, they raised their voices, saying in the Lycaonian language, “The gods have come down to us in the likeness of men!” 12 And Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul, Hermes, because he was the chief speaker. 13 Then the priest of Zeus, whose temple was in front of their city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates, intending to sacrifice with the multitudes.


They Worshiped Idols

Acts 19:27
So not only is this trade of ours in danger of falling into disrepute, but also the temple of the great goddess Diana may be despised and her magnificence destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worship

Cornelius needed very specific directions and details to find Peter implying he didn't know him.

Acts 10:5
5 Now send men to Joppa, and send for Simon whose surname is Peter. 6 He is lodging with Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea.

Peter was one of the most influential Christians at that time,don't you think it's odd an aspiring Christian did not know of Peter?

And it is much more likely the God Cornelius followed was one of the Roman Pagan Gods,as he was a Roman gentile. The main focus of Cornelius in the Bible is the removal of the age old apartheid between Jew and gentile when he met Peter after the Apostles vision.

The point being in all of this,it appears he did not work up faith within himself.

Agree. Faith is a gift-from The Lord
Matt. 16:17

 

[Scottish Highlander]

For me, I started getting belief in God by seeing the miracles that he has done in my life and the divine things that he has done for me. I can read the Bible too but I need the relationship type of concrete evidence to know that God is real. If he wasn't then things would just be normal and average like they usually are for me and I would have no desire for God. If you understand what gifts he has given you and you thank him for it, he will walk with you. Then he will invite you to the Bible. That's what happened to me. The things God has done for me are far from coincidental, they are miracles and wonders of joy.

 

[EddieStormX]

The Bible says unless a person believes in Jesus Christ as their Lord and saviour they are separated from God.

How exactly does this faith in Christ come about, from scripture. "Soul winners" will knock on people's door or go out street preaching the message "believe in Jesus" and I agree faith is needed. The question is: How do we do that? Specifically how can a lost person get faith in Jesus?

When you see the truth you'll have fate.

 

[Halbhh]

With you Halbhh this is a whole different conversation because you follow pelagian,which only the cults and people on the fringes follow. I was talking on the assumption (my bad) that all people acknowledge at least some type of human sin but you deny any type of human sin if think accountable starts in the teens and not at birth,so a much more pressing argument would be human nature not faith.

Eh? No, you've entirely misunderstood. All are sinners. Every last person.

We are to follow Not some doctrine, But Christ and His Word. So, scripture itself is how we can read that sin is only counted when there is understanding. We hear it (if we listen!) from both Christ our Lord, and through the epistle Romans. Scripture. I don't rely on such various doctrines as you refer to (not one nor another) in general exactly because they try to replace scripture. You should not put your faith/hope in a doctrine either, not one doctrine nor another! Better, by far, is to truly listen to Christ, and truly hear Him.

 

[Halbhh]

Yep, that’s what happened to me too. Started reading the Bible for the first time at age 35 (was born into a traditional Catholic environment and we only read the catechism or what was fed out by the parish priest or nuns, no Bible). I was searching for what life is all about and how it should be lived, and thought I should see what the Bible says on the matter. So I bought a Christian Bible and at home I started reading from John’s Gospel, and all of a sudden I understood the meaning and need for salvation, and how that salvation was offered to me by God as a gift. That was my born again experience. It was as if the shutters of ignorance were lifted of my eyes and heart.

What a wonderful testimony!

 

[All Glory To God]

It couldn't be saved from the hailstorm, accidentally going over Niagara Falls, or attacks from magpies.

I'm sorry, your messages in this thread sounded like you wanted to school me so I was just asking questions.

 

[All Glory To God]

All are called by God...
Romans 8:30:
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
So the call is a moving within one to seek God which then the individual acts upon and grows up as far as the Lord is willing for him to grow.

Right,they are called,they respond to the calling of God:

Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

So according to his purpose they will be glorified. God selecting,predestining then calling is the complete opposite to ''seeking'' which would imply proactively exploring for the creator.

 

[All Glory To God]

How I got faith was when I repented to God. I am still so ashamed of my sins and actions. I am eternally indebted to God. And he granted me grace and thus my faith was strengthened in him. I still struggle with it everyday. But I pray daily to him.

Did your repentance come from God or from you? The follow up question will be to ask you,where in the Bible does it show us how to repent.

 

[All Glory To God]

Agree. Faith is a gift-from The Lord
Matt. 16:17

Amen!

 

[Halbhh]

Did your repentance come from God or from you? The follow up question will be to ask you,where in the Bible does it show us how to repent.

This is such a crucial question, and we all need to know how, and it's so helpful how Christ answers this, emphasizing to us the quality of real repentance.

9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt:
10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’
13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Luke 18 ESV

As you can see, a true repentance is sincere, and humble (it's really humble to confess one's wrongs, how one falls short).

So helpful for us all is to read 1rst John chapters 1 and 2 on this.

 

[All Glory To God]

For me, I started getting belief in God by seeing the miracles that he has done in my life and the divine things that he has done for me. I can read the Bible too but I need the relationship type of concrete evidence to know that God is real. If he wasn't then things would just be normal and average like they usually are for me and I would have no desire for God. If you understand what gifts he has given you and you thank him for it, he will walk with you. Then he will invite you to the Bible. That's what happened to me. The things God has done for me are far from coincidental, they are miracles and wonders of joy.

I believe when a person is born again that is a miracle but for different reasons. I don't think human creation can just snap out of their sinful ways and choose the most Holy God,it takes a miracle from God to give a new heart to the person being saved,no they do not choose God and the love for him only follows after they are saved as he loved us first and the flesh only loves sin,it is in bondage to it.

 

[All Glory To God]

When you see the truth you'll have fate.

Ok Eddie what is ''the truth'' that when you see it you get faith?

 

[All Glory To God]

. . . . .

It is all relative to the person.

Likewise an unborn baby can not comprehend many things, and a one year old can not comprehend many things etc...I think God understands that more than we do, and i believe His grace covers those scenarios. He is Just and Merciful.

Yeah but that doesn't fit with the idea that the gospel is an instrument essential for salvation,if it can be excluded from whole age groups of people. Mercy and justice cannot be administered at the same time toward sinful creatures. If you opt for mercy then you concede that God is judge over salvation,if you opt for justice than these people,whoever they are must be punished for not accepting Christ and we know they wouldn't because they didn't hear the gospel,if you want to be consistent.

My belief system is that God saves who he chooses without conditions or partnership from the inferior creation,so I do not have this dilemma of ''need to hear the Gospel'' but then back down from this position in tricky situations like infant fatalities.