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Extreme gun control positions

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by Strathos, Nov 12, 2018.

  1. OK Jeff

    OK Jeff Active Member

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    My original post on the topic was referring to a quote that the constitution “should” eventually be used to suspend rights. Indeed it can. But it should never.
     
  2. OK Jeff

    OK Jeff Active Member

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    I should’ve said “should not” as it’s foolish
     
  3. dgiharris

    dgiharris Newbie

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    The ridiculous truth regarding 2nd amendment arguments / proponents is the following:

    They maintain that the Constitution is so important, so sacred that you simply cannot infringe on it in any way... and they argue this very vehemently yet there is a huge problem with this...

    ALL OF OUR RIGHTS ARE INFRINGED UPON IN SOME WAY!!!!

    This position that the 2nd amendment is so sacred it cannot be infringed upon never ever applies to any of the other amendments...

    My freedom of free speech is routinely limited and even infringed upon by the Government. Don't believe me? Go to a police station and yell, "F you pigs I hope you all die" and see what happens to you.

    I could go on listing examples amendment by amendment but I will stop there. Point is simple, this notion that you simply can't touch an amendment in any way, shape, or form is pure fallacy... but for some reason 2nd amendment proponents get away with using this logical fallacy as a shield.

    And I say this as a gun owner.

    Amendments are not untouchable, no amendment is absolute, so stop treating the 2nd amendment as if any infringement is tantamount to ripping the entire Constitution to shreds...

    /[end rant]
     
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  4. OK Jeff

    OK Jeff Active Member

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    And there are those who yell at the top of their lungs for the first amendment as well. I’m often one. It has to be protected wholeheartedly to slow the rate of deterioration. We will eventually lose them all.
     
  5. No Swansong

    No Swansong Formerly Jtbdad Christian on every board!

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    I never claimed it wasn't. Is it safe then to assume that you oppose all laws regulating pharmaceuticals or illicit drugs such as Cocaine or Methamphetamine? Those are also human problems.
     
  6. Belk

    Belk Senior Member Supporter

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    Very well ,let me spell it out for you.

    Only one of those things is something you use a militia to protect you from. The second amendment in no way protects your right to self defense. That is simply a side effect of it's stated purpose.
     
  7. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    The Second Amendment literally has "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" in it, so an argument for infringement in spite of it is not a good one. Your example of yelling in the police station is not a good one, since police have the right to defend themselves and other officers, and can reasonably suspect that such a stunt would be a prelude to an assault. Hence, they would subdue you in short order.
     
  8. OK Jeff

    OK Jeff Active Member

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    As a principle, yes I oppose such restrictions. But I can’t quite bring myself to say “legalize them”. Not yet anyway.
     
  9. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    For there to be a right for militias to exist, there is an implicit right to self-defense.
     
  10. Strathos

    Strathos No one important

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    But like cars, do you think it is a good idea for people who own firearms to be properly trained in how to use them?
     
  11. OK Jeff

    OK Jeff Active Member

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    Protecting yourself from foreign or domestic threats is precisely the purpose. A criminal isn’t such a far reach.
     
  12. Belk

    Belk Senior Member Supporter

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    Ah, I see what you were trying to convey. Apologies for my lack of understanding.
     
  13. Belk

    Belk Senior Member Supporter

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    I agree. However it is not something that is protected by the amendment.
     
  14. OK Jeff

    OK Jeff Active Member

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    Of course. And where I’m from, it’s still standard practice.
     
  15. OK Jeff

    OK Jeff Active Member

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    The amendment protects the ability.
     
  16. dgiharris

    dgiharris Newbie

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    Not in the same way that 2nd amendment proponents yell about the 2nd amendment.

    1st amendment proponents don't take to the streets to protect your right to yell fire in a crowded theater?
    1st amendment proponents don't threaten to oust politicians for making pedophilia porn illegal do they?
    1st amendment proponents don't campaign on a platform that if you make snuff films illegal then it is a slippery slope to making all films illegal do they?

    So it is not in the same league, not even close. 2nd amendment proponents are pathological in their "don't touch my amendment" stance as compared to 1st amendment proponents.

    When you propose a "reasonable" infringement on any other amendment it is met with rational discourse...
    When you propose a "reasonable" infringement on the 2nd amendment, 2nd amendment proponents foam at the mouth in their defense using every single logical fallacy in the book, especially the slippery slope fallacy...

    if we applied the same logic to all of our other laws and amendments... then we'd have no laws, rules, or regulations... yet for some reason, we let 2nd amendment proponents use these ridiculous arguments and tactics...

    It is disingenuous to the point of being absolutely disgusting...
     
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  17. No Swansong

    No Swansong Formerly Jtbdad Christian on every board!

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    All citizens have a vested interest in how their government is run they are vested due to being not only taxpayers but also because they are subject to the government to which they are subject. All adult citizens should, as they do now, have the constitutionally guaranteed right to vote. Please provide a cogent argument as to why this is not true.
     
  18. Belk

    Belk Senior Member Supporter

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    The amendment protects the right to keep and bear arms for the protection of the state. For most of our history that was a very important distinction.
     
  19. No Swansong

    No Swansong Formerly Jtbdad Christian on every board!

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    Of course one must also consider what they can do that we can't. Simply having one freedom that they do not enjoy doesn't necessarily make us freer.
     
  20. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    Smoking weed (which I do not personally advocate) comes to mind, but the states are already working on that.
     
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