Evidence of Purgatory?

[BobRyan]

Purgatory is not a human or denomination creation, it's God's creation

On a thread where more people are reading/posting than just Catholic Christians - how would you make that case?

 

[BobRyan]

Which version of the Bible are you using? I'm using Good news, and it's a bit different from yours. If you read the text I quoted in my first post, it says Jesus Christ was put to death physically but was made alive in spirit and in His spiritual existence He went to preach to imprisoned souls. I think this event occurred before His physical resurrection

The problem with that ( - as noted here Tuesday at 11:09 AM #15 )
is that the text does not say "while dead Jesus went in spirit to preach to spirits in purgatory waiting to be purged of their venial sins and then be transferred into Heaven".

in other words "all the details" in the doctrine on purgatory are missing from your text.

As I show here (NASB version)

I don't think the Bible supports that amount of inference poured into the text.

Heb 9 "it is appointed unto man once to die - and then comes the judgment" - no second chance in death.

Peter declares that the Spirit of Christ was actively working with OT saints - in real life -- not after their death.

1 Peter 1
10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look.

1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,


1 Peter 3 is very specifically talking about the work of the Spirit preaching to those who lived at the time the ark was being built by Noah with the result that 8 were SAVED and the rest perished.

No mention at all of being purged of their sins after death -- via torment and suffering - in a place called purgatory.

no mention of Jesus going some place like Purgatory "while dead to preach to spirits in purgatory waiting to be purged of their venial sins and then be transferred into Heaven".

 

[Joyous Song]

God’s righteousness is not earned, it is given through exchange. Here is how the exchange works: Christ takes on our sin, in fact he became our sin and in exchange for our sin we receive his righteousness. To be declared righteous in God’s sight you must be willing to put all your sin on Christ and take up his righteousness. I know sometimes that is hard to grasp because it sounds too good to be true, but thankfully it is true. If you will allow him, God will take your sin and exchange it for his righteousness. 3 Truths to Know about the Righteousness of God

Yes all that is true but a short study of Christianity as a whole shows also clearly their are far too many self righteous arrogant goats than humble contrite, loving and forgiving lambs out there. Further if just saying you are saved and having strong feeling you were, were enough, the why did He foretell that the the days would be shortened for the elect? Because it will grow so dark even the elect will be at risk?

 

[Joyous Song]

Yes all that is true but a short study of Christianity as a whole shows also clearly their are far too many self righteous arrogant goats than humble contrite, loving and forgiving lambs out there. Further if just saying you are saved and having strong feeling you were, were enough, the why did He foretell that the the days would be shortened for the elect? Because it will grow so dark even the elect will be at risk?

JS: Purgatory came both from Matt.6??? were we are told if ywe sin against our brother and do not repent then we will be thrown into prison and will not get back out until we pay back every last penny. Also there is parables where He said we could be sent to prison. Lastly their was a Jewish belief in Purgatory its called in Hebrew Sheol.

 

[CleanSoul]

Peter continues with the "antitype" of the Holy Spirit that dwells in us today.

Which means what?

 

[CleanSoul]

By LAW, they should go to hell

No. It is not a way of getting out of going to hell. People in purgatory died with venial sins on their soul. They were not quite able to go straight to heaven, so they need cleansed.

 

[CleanSoul]

According to the church that invented Purgatory,

You mean the church created by Jesus? The only church created by Jesus?

 

[CleanSoul]

according to the denomination that created Purgatory.

It is not a denomination. The one you belong to is.

 

[CleanSoul]

1 Peter 3:18 - 20

It isn't referring to purgatory.

What about, Matthew 12:32? "And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven; either in this age, or in the age to come." (italics mine)

We know that blasphemy of the holy Spirit is the only sin which cannot be forgiven. We know people will go to hell for committing this sin because it is of their choosing. We know people in hell are damned and cannot be saved. So where else would this refer to?

 

[CleanSoul]

And just where is there a Greek word for Purgatory in the bible

Why do you require there to be one?

I will say it is a MADE up word

Sure, what ever you think, not what the church Jesus created, which is also lead by the holy Spirit, teaches, right?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Which means what?

Welcome ! The Holy Spirit is our guild to all truth.
Be blessed.

 

[disciple Clint]

Yes all that is true but a short study of Christianity as a whole shows also clearly their are far too many self righteous arrogant goats than humble contrite, loving and forgiving lambs out there. Further if just saying you are saved and having strong feeling you were, were enough, the why did He foretell that the the days would be shortened for the elect? Because it will grow so dark even the elect will be at risk?

Being saved has nothing to do with feelings, it is all about where you place your trust and faith. The days of the tribulation will be shortened because even Christians are human and have limits on what they can overcome.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Why do you require there to be one?

Sure, what ever you think, not what the church Jesus created, which is also lead by the holy Spirit, teaches, right?

I believe the point is that Purgatory, both as a word and as a concept, is extrabiblical. It is as helpful as those who insist that reincarnation is valid, even though "reincarnation" is not mentioned as a word in the Bible.

 

[CleanSoul]

extrabiblical

And yet, the trinity is not in the Bible, but almost all Christians accept the Father, Son, and holy Spirit.

Is the Holy Trinity extra biblical? Where do you think it came from?

 

[lismore]

Don't forget to mention the visions of mystic priests and nuns.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Don't forget to mention the visions of mystic priests and nuns.

Mmmm hmmmm.

 

[disciple Clint]

And yet, the trinity is not in the Bible, but almost all Christians accept the Father, Son, and holy Spirit.

Is the Holy Trinity extra biblical? Where do you think it came from?

Matthew 28:19-20. Matthew 28:19-20 NIV. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." ...

 

[thecolorsblend]

.

 

[CleanSoul]

Matthew 28:19-20. Matthew 28:19-20 NIV. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." ...

Where is the word, Trinity? Isn't it extra Biblical? If it is not in the Bible, why do you accept it?

 

[lismore]

Where is the word, Trinity? Isn't it extra Biblical? If it is not in the Bible, why do you accept it?

You've cracked it! Because 'Trinity' is not in the bible that gives you the green light to make up any weird doctrine or practice that tickles your fancy