I heard a sermon in church just yesterday where the pastor said that the holy Spirit convicts a believer of sin. It threw me off a little bit, to be honest.So why are you so completely unable to show one single verse where the Spirit is convicting a believer of sin?
Not a verse where God used someone to point out the sin of another.
And not a verse that shows God's light exposing unbelievers sins.
But a verse that shows the Spirit convicting a believer of sin.
The Spirit convicts believers of righteousness, not sin or unbelief.
LOLI heard a sermon in church just yesterday where the pastor said that the holy Spirit convicts a believer of sin. It threw me off a little bit, to be honest.
John 16:8-14 KJV.LOL
What do you think the Holy Spirit's job is anyway???
There are so many like I said I could go through many books and show where God speaks to believers and warns them rebukes them, convicts them, God does this to believers and God himself works in every believer. When a believer is tempted to walk after the flesh and carnal mind. God also works in him to draw him away and to show what sin is. He has to yield to the Spirit and not the flesh. It is only through the work of the Spirit in believers that we can mortify the deeds of the body and crucify the flesh.So why are you so completely unable to show one single verse where the Spirit is convicting a believer of sin?
Not a verse where God used someone to point out the sin of another.
And not a verse that shows God's light exposing unbelievers sins.
But a verse that shows the Spirit convicting a believer of sin.
The Spirit convicts believers of righteousness, not sin or unbelief.
Because ever = at any time or always; and lasting = means to endure, except this is in the present continuous tense.
So it does in fact define itself. It's not an opinion, words do that - it's how language works, and the fact the Lord uses this particular description for our salvation defines our life as always enduring, or everlasting.
This doesn't even make sense. Show me one scripture where it says that a believer who is saved can lose their salvation and be condemned to hell. You have to prove what you believe based upon scripture just as much as I do.
Here's what proves everlasting life as the true, biblical doctrine:
To enter the kingdom of heaven, we must be born again, or in other words, born of God (John 3:3). To be born again, we must believe that Jesus is the Christ and Son of God (1 John 5:1). When we are presented the Gospel, receive and believe it, we call upon the name of the Lord in faith, believing in the heart and confessing with the mouth the Lord Jesus (Romans 10:9, Romans 10:10, Romans 10:13, Acts of the Apostles 16:31, Acts of the Apostles 2:21), then we are sealed with the holy Spirit unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13), and we are promised everlasting life by the words of Jesus (John 3:16) and pass from condemnation and death, unto justification and eternal life through Christ (John 5:24, John 3:18, John 10:28-29), whereby we know we are secured in the grace of God by faith having been reconciled to him as the sons of the living God (Romans 5:1-2, John 1:12-13, Romans 5:10-11), and are confident that nothing can separate us from the love of God through Christ (Romans 8:38-39, Hebrews 13:5), because know that God cannot lie when he made the promise that all who receive eternal salvation have an eternal inheritance with him through Jesus Christ (Titus 1:2). For if God unsealed us and made us unborn from him after already having been born, and took away our everlasting life, God would be found a liar, because he promised us salvation through Christ by faith; but God is not a liar, as you make him out to be.
Once saved, always saved.
As far as the believer is concerned:What do you think the Holy Spirit's job is anyway???
So you think God shows you what is wrong? Is that so you can figure out the best way to deal with it? Proverbs 3:5-6 and 14:12 I think should sufficiently answer that.And it is God that works in us to make us perfect unto every good work. he also works in us to show what is right and wrong and to reprove, convict and convince us of anything we do that is wrong.
The Holy Spirit is our paraclete. He walks beside us and empowers us for the life given to us by Christ and for service to Christ and man.John 16:8-14 KJV.
"8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you."
The Biblical answer is to reprove of unbelief, righteousness, and judgement. And to guide into all truth.
It doesn't seem to say anything about "convicting believers of their sins."
You can believe what you will DM.As far as the believer is concerned:
Spirit convicts us of righteousness, not sin.
He comforts us in our tribulation. After all He is the Comforter. John 14:26 The Greek word for comforter is the same word used in 1 John 2:1 for Advocate.
He is our Guide. Isaiah 30:20-21
Also, if you look at Psalm 139:23-24 you will see the Psalmist asking God to examine his heart and then to lead him.
Note he does not ask that God would reveal his wickedness to him, he just wants to be led.
So you think God shows you what is wrong? Is that so you can figure out the best way to deal with it? Proverbs 3:5-6 and 14:12 I think should sufficiently answer that.
Doug Melven said: ↑
Like I said before and will say again, there are no verses that say the Holy Spirit will convict us of sin.
Do you not understand the challenge here?
DM didn't ask for a whole litany of verses. He clearly said there are "no verses", and this is how you respond?
Your response reveals your total lack of evidence for ANY verse that says what you claim.
The response is simply a cop-out.
He wasn't asking for "too many to list".
EVEN just one verse would refute his challenge. But you couldn't even do that.
This is Romans 7:24The Holy Spirit also sheds light on what sinners we truly are...
Romans 7:24
It is HIS work that brings us to the awareness of our need to be cleansed by the blood of Jesus and so that we can clearly see our sins.
These are the 2 verses you cited.He makes us aware of our moral choice to follow Jesus and obey Him or not.
Isaiah 35:8
1 Peter 1:15-16
Here is Acts 15:8-9So, yes, the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and helps us to overcome.
Acts 15:8-9
I gave verses that showed exactly what I was saying, no qualifying needed at all, and you disregard it and then when you want to prove your point you bring up verses totally unrelated.You can believe what you will DM.
I can't take time to argue out everything with you.
I studied theology and taught this stuff to kids.
Not EVERYTHING about our faith is found in the bible.
It took theologians to figure some things out.
That's all I'll say.
Romans 7:24This is Romans 7:24
Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?
How does this verse say what you say it does?
These are the 2 verses you cited.
And a highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but is shall be for [the redeemed]: the wayfaring men, yea fools, shall not err [therein].
15 but like as he who called you is holy, be ye yourselves also holy in all manner of living; 16 because it is written, Ye shall be holy; for I am holy.
How do these 2 verses prove your point?
Here is Acts 15:8-9
15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
At this point I am just confused. How do these verses prove what you are saying?
I gave verses that showed exactly what I was saying, no qualifying needed at all, and you disregard it and then when you want to prove your point you bring up verses totally unrelated.
That was almost a good scripture to post for your argument, but when a person actually reads the Psalm in context, we realize that it doesn't support the loss of salvation one bit, even though you try and quote it in support of your argument.Psalms 69:28
I agree with much of what you said, but there is some I do not.The Holy Spirit is our paraclete. He walks beside us and empowers us for the life given to us by Christ and for service to Christ and man.
The Holy Spirit also sheds light on what sinners we truly are...
Romans 7:24
It is HIS work that brings us to the awareness of our need to be cleansed by the blood of Jesus and so that we can clearly see our sins.
He makes us aware of our moral choice to follow Jesus and obey Him or not.
Isaiah 35:8
1 Peter 1:15-16
So, yes, the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and helps us to overcome.
Acts 15:8-9
The Holy Spirit is also our comforter, He helps us to understand God's word, He helps us to know God better and better, He makes us feel God's love.
No, the verse can relate to those who once had eternal life as sheep of Jesus and were blotted out. We see that from this section as quoted below and from Acts 1 in connection to this to Judas who was one of Jesus sheep he sent to the lost sheep and gave them all power over unclean spirits and who had their names written in heaven. The 70 and the 12 as scripture strongly implies. here are a few verses. The verse you quoted in Psalms 69 does not say that they were never in His righteousness. In vs 28 it shows that the ones who are in the book of the living are the righteous, These ones are blotted out of that book (implying that they were once with the righteous in that book only the righteous in faith are in that book.) then they are blotted out. This whole section from vs 25-28 is speaking about Judas as well as other s who did not believe. They shall not come into (future tense) come into His righteousness. For only in the righteousness of Christ is their salvation through faith.That was almost a good scripture to post for your argument, but when a person actually reads the Psalm in context, we realize that it doesn't support the loss of salvation one bit, even though you try and quote it in support of your argument.
This Psalm is David speaking about his enemies, and is also a future prophecy of Jesus Christ being persecuted and hated by the Pharisees and unbelieving Jews of his day.
Psalm 69:25-28 "Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents. For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded. Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness. Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous."
So the context of the Psalm clearly proves that the people he wants blotted out of the book of life are not even saved to begin with, because they haven't come into the righteousness of the Lord based upon verse 27.
This is more of a verse about David wanting those who are his enemies to become reprobates (meaning they're not save-able because their hearts are hardened), which means the Lord blots their name out of the book of life before they ever even die.
Because we know that judgement happens to a person when we die (Hebrews 9:27) where we stand before the throne of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10). It is at that point in which a person who is unbelieving gets blotted out of the book of life and cast into hell. However, reprobates are even worse because they get blotted out before they're ever even judged, according to Romans 1.
What if the word of God is not read?I agree with much of what you said, but there is some I do not.
Acts 15:8-9 is not proof of the Holy Spirit convicting us of our sins (as in, making us aware of every sin we commit as believers), but instead is proof of the Holy Spirit reproving those talked about in the passage of their unbelief, which caused them to be purified by the faith they came to accept.
I agree that the Holy Spirit reproves the world of unbelief; that's what the passage in John 16 says, which was my whole point. It doesn't, however, reprove of every little sin - the Word of God does, because the law was manifested that we should know sin (Romans 7:7).
They aren't.Why are persons who believe in OSAS so harsh, inconsiderate and impolite?
That's right. Asleep at the switch.
No, never said that or implied that and that straw man fallacy argument won't work here.So you think God shows you what is wrong? Is that so you can figure out the best way to deal with it? Proverbs 3:5-6 and 14:12 I think should sufficiently answer that.
I believe that every person who believes that salvation can be lost does NOT believe what Jesus said in John 10:28, which is about eternal security.Wow you actually believe that Jesus’ church failed to deliver His message correctly.
Please don't kid yourself. There's been many churches that always believed in eternal security.Not one Christian Church was faithful to accomplish what Jesus had sent the apostles to do.
Yeah, I'd say not believing what Jesus said so clearly in John 10:28 is insane. Exactly.Is this insane or what?
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