Eternal Security - Is the Gospel

[GodsGrace101]

As love hopes for the best, I keep looking for at least SOMETHING true in what they post. But they keep going on and on contradicting Scripture.

Continue to post.
It's for new Christian's reading along....they need to hear the truth.

 

[FreeGrace2]

From all of your posts contents, you obviously ignore what you want to ignore from Jesus' Own Word.

It seems you've ignored the clear teaching about eternal security in John 10:28.

You might not ever have read it or even looked at it,
in order so you can trick yourself into believing you believe everything He Says;
but
clearly you refuse to hear His Voice, according to His Word,
and
worse, the people (you chose sometime in the past and present to believe what they said) propagate a false gospel that results in much harm to people's souls, and unbelief,
the
exact opposite of what the Truth accomplishes.

All you've given so far is an opinion. Where is any evidence that supports your apparent claim that salvation can be lost?

That's how these debates are supposed to go. Just giving one's opinion means nothing, when there's nothing from the Bible to back it up.

If Jesus wasn't teaching eternal security in John 10:28, by noting the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal security, what was He teaching?

This is the second time I've asked this.

If you don't provide an answer this, I'll know you only have opinions, but no evidence from Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace2]

GodsGrace101 said: ↑
Stop talking about everything in the bible.

As love hopes for the best, I keep looking for at least SOMETHING true in what they post. But they keep going on and on contradicting Scripture.

This was said to me. So, since you are now accusing me of contradicting Scripture, please prove it with clear evidence and cite the post #s, or you're just another empty opinion, a fake.

 

[FreeGrace2]

False claim.
False assumption.
False tradtion.
It doesn't agree with All of Yahweh's Word, Plan and Salvation in Jesus.

THAT is the problem with pulling out one verse, or 2 or a dozen, to prove a tradition that started outside of Christ and which does not agree with all of God's Word.

Just more opinions, and no evidence to support your opinions.

Please provide evidence from Scripture.

 

[DaveM]

I do not think it is clear in scripture weather or not you can loose salvation, to state either case as fact is no way possible IMO I can quote many versus in the bible that support each point of view. I know one thing for certain it is best to live like we can loose salvation. meaning to keep Jesus word

 

[Call me Nic]

I do not think it is clear in scripture weather or not you can loose salvation, to state either case as fact is no way possible IMO I can quote many versus in the bible that support each point of view. I know one thing for certain it is best to live like we can loose salvation. meaning to keep Jesus word

No, it's best to live life with the assurance of God's promise that he cannot lie when he promised eternal life to all those who believe on Jesus Christ (Titus 1:2). Otherwise, what is the point of having faith, if you don't have faith in God and his promises?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I do not think it is clear in scripture weather or not you can loose salvation, to state either case as fact is no way possible IMO I can quote many versus in the bible that support each point of view.

This is just an opinion that the Bible cannot be understood. Or that it is internally contradicted.

I reject your opinion in favor of Scripture being God breathed and clear enough to be understood.

I know one thing for certain it is best to live like we can loose salvation. meaning to keep Jesus word

Then you really don't believe Jesus' word, because He very clearly said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28.

Hopefully, you've not come across that verse yet. Well, now you have, and it cannot be ignored.

Jesus gave us the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life.

He is the CAUSE of possessing eternal life, by "I give them eternal life".

Never perishing is the EFFECT of possessing eternal life, by "and they shall never perish."

When Jesus gives someone eternal life, they are a recipient of eternal life.

So, from the moment one is sgiven eternal life, Jesus said they shall never perish.

If this isn't eternal security, then I don't know what is.

But the language of the verse doesn't allow anyone to squirm out of the FACT that those given eternal life will never perish.

 

[Call me Nic]

If salvation can be lost, why is it called EVERLASTING life? That is self defining - it lasts forever. And the Lord attaches no conditions to it except faith in Jesus Christ. Any who believe salvation can be lost after it is received by God blatantly ignore the promises of God in scripture, and have a problem believing what the Lord says.

They act like we should work for our salvation so that we don't lose it, instead of simply trusting God that we're saved by his grace. That is as a-biblical as it gets.

 

[Doug Melven]

Is this enough verses to show that we possess eternal life and we can't lose it?

1 Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

2 Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

3 Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

4 Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

5 Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them
6 Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

7 1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Notice the 2 different believe's in this verse. The first one gives us eternal life. We possess it. We also need to believe for blessings. Not continue to believe to get something we already possess.

8 1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

9 John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Yet some people think Jesus will cast us out or cut us off from eternal life.

10 Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

11 1 Corinthians 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
You don't belong to you anymore. Once you were joined to the LORD, you belong to Him now.

12 2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

13 Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

14 Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Because He is always with us we should do these 2 things.

15 1 Corinthians 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Just more opinions, and no evidence to support your opinions.

Please provide evidence from Scripture.

You have continually ignored Scripture. Otherwise, you would know I did not present any opinion at all.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If salvation can be lost, why is it called EVERLASTING life?

It is not self-defining. Why did you claim that ?
If God, the Eternal One Who Created all Life, does not take free will away from those who follow Him until after they sleep/die in this life,
then why do you and others insist that He does ?
You all have to ignore so much of His Word to believe the false osas teachings (and probably (as in the past many did) the worse teachings that go along with it) ,
what is the point in claiming His Word is Truth about anything !??!

 

[Bible2+]

FreeGrace2 said in post #824:

The indwelling Holy Spirit seals us IN HIM. This indwelling is a deposit, which is a guarantee of our inheritance.

It's a guarantee of our inheritance only so long as we continue to believe (Hebrews 3:14) and do not commit unrepentant sin (Hebrews 12:17).

*******

FreeGrace2 said in post #825:

Everyone who comes to Christ with saving faith HAS repented.

That's right (1 John 3:9). But they can still wrongly employ their free will to subsequently return back to unrepentant sin (2 Peter 2:20-22), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29).

FreeGrace2 said in post #825:

Salvation is received IMMEDIATELY when one believes in Christ.

That's right, with regard to initial salvation (1 Corinthians 15:2), but not ultimate salvation (1 Thessalonians 5:8b; Romans 8:23-25).

*******

FreeGrace2 said in post #826:

It certainly is when you try to force verses to teach loss of salvation when there are clear verses about eternal security.

There are no verses about eternal security, when they are properly taken in the context of other verses (Isaiah 28:9-10) which show that there are conditions for us not perishing (e.g. Luke 13:3).

FreeGrace2 said in post #826:

What you continue to resist is the FACT that if there were "other conditions" for never perishing, Jesus was AMISS in not listing them in that verse.

No, He wasn't. For He expects us to know every word of the Bible (Matthew 4:4), and not just John 10:28.

Otherwise, it would be like Satan saying that Jesus was wrong to condition the verse in Matthew 4:6 with the verse in Matthew 4:7.

FreeGrace2 said in post #826:

And there are NO CONDITIONS for recipients of eternal life to meet in order to never perish.

There are (e.g. Matthew 7:21).

FreeGrace2 said in post #826:

There are NO verses in the Bible that teach loss of salvation.

There are (e.g. Hebrews 6:4-8).

*******

FreeGrace2 said in post #844:

Jesus was speaking about fruit bearing, not how to stay saved . . .

They come together in John 15:2a, John 15:6, as in Matthew 25:26, Matthew 25:30.

FreeGrace2 said in post #844:

There are no verses that undoes John 10:28 . . .

There are verses which add conditions to it (e.g. 1 Corinthians 9:27).

*******

FreeGrace2 said in post #848:

He did die for every sin.

Even though Jesus' sacrificial blood is sufficient to forgive all sins (1 John 2:2), it actually forgives only the sins of Christians which are past (Romans 3:25-26), as in sins which have been repented from and confessed to God (1 John 1:9,7). Jesus' sacrificial blood does not remit unrepentant sins (Hebrews 10:26-29). So a Christian can ultimately lose his salvation if he wrongly employs his free will to commit unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46).

 

[Bible2+]

Doug Melven said in post #842:

You like to say that you are depending on Him, but you are depending on yourself to remain dependent.

Only in the sense of knowing that we can mess things up by our own free will, by wrongly becoming "highminded" (Romans 11:20-22).

Doug Melven said in post #842:

Philippians 2 says we need to work out our own salvation, how can we work out something we don't possess?

We possess initial salvation (1 Corinthians 15:2), but not yet ultimate salvation (2 Peter 1:10-11).

Doug Melven said in post #842:

Christ being in us will not change as He promised He would never leave us or forsake us.

Only so long as we don't forsake Him (2 Timothy 2:12b).

Doug Melven said in post #842:

If it was conditional, no one could be saved because no one can meet God's perfect conditions.

See Matthew 5:48, for it is possible for Christians to be perfect (2 Timothy 3:17; 2 Corinthians 7:1; 2 Corinthians 13:11, Luke 6:40, John 17:23; 1 Corinthians 2:6, Philippians 3:15, Colossians 4:12, James 1:4).

That is, if we love God, we will obey Him (1 John 5:3, John 14:21-24). And if we obey Him, He will continue to love us (John 15:10).

And it is not difficult for Christians to obey everything that God requires of them (1 John 5:3b, Matthew 11:28-30, John 14:15,21, Matthew 5:48, Revelation 3:2; 2 Timothy 3:16-17, Colossians 1:28, Philippians 3:15; 1 Corinthians 2:6; 2 Corinthians 13:11).

Doug Melven said in post #842:

You no longer have a choice to go back to the old Kingdom.

Of course you do. Salvation does not take away free will (Matthew 24:48-51).

Doug Melven said in post #842:

When you were in the Kingdom of darkness and you made the choice to be His child, He took you from that kingdom.

We don't make the initial choice (John 1:13).

Also, it does not follow logically (as is sometimes claimed) that since people cannot do anything by their own power to be initially saved (Romans 9:16), then they cannot do anything by their own power to ultimately lose their salvation. For, as an analogy, imagine that a blind man cannot ever hope to see except by Jesus Christ miraculously giving him sight. Once Jesus does give him sight, it does not follow logically that the man cannot then do anything by his own power to end up losing his sight, such as by wrongly employing his free will to stare at the sun for too long.

*******

Doug Melven said in post #843:

Nowhere in that passage does it say the Spirit will convict a believer of sin.

God rebukes and chastens believers for unrepentant sin (Revelation 3:19).

Doug Melven said in post #843:

We are forgiven.

Only so long as we do 1 John 1:9 and don't do Hebrews 10:26-29.

*******

Doug Melven said in post #853:

You are saying we need to ask to be forgiven.

That's right (Luke 11:4).

Doug Melven said in post #853:

Implication is if we don't ask, we are not forgiven.

That's right (cf. James 4:2b).

Doug Melven said in post #853:

Love is bigger than anything in its way.

Except free will (Psalms 109:5).

*******

Doug Melven said in post #879:

What Jesus is saying is once you are a believer, you are a believer, there is no going back.

There is (Luke 8:13).

Doug Melven said in post #879:

There is no end to eternal life.

But there can be an end to possessing it (Matthew 25:30).

 

[LoveofTruth]

I said

"LoveofTruth said: ↑
1 Corinthians 14:24
But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:"

.This is talking about an unbeliever, check the context.

Umm, I think you just ignored one part of the verse it speaks of "one who beleiveth not, or one unlearned" Some simply were ignorant of certain things and yet were still believers. But we read also that "prophecy " edifies the CHURCH.

as scripture teaches

"...but he that prophesieth edifieth the church."(1 Corinthans 14:4 KJV)

Prophecy is to be led by the Spirit for the church. it may also be towards unbelievers. But as we saw in Luke 8 a person may become a believer for a whole then fall away. So when prophecy comes to a gathering some of the believers may have fallen or be in sin and God will shine his word in their heart by His light and it will come with power and unction by other parts of the bpdy. This word that is preached or spoken and in exhortation may come with reproof, conviction rebuke and warning and exposing of sin. But all this is led by the Spirit. All Paul's letters were written in the power of the Spirit to the churches and many sins in the camp were exposed by the Spirit through Paul and others to the church. We see for example a man who was among them having sex with his fathers wife and Paul said he had judged already even though he wasn't there in person. This was a spiritual judgement and rebuke and convincing of sin by the Spirit. And Paul warned the churches of their sin as well in being puffed up and false glorying etc. Paul said if a man be called a brother who does certain sins in 1 Cor 5, with such a one not to eat. Paul also warned the christians of many sins. He did so by the power and leading of the Spirit. So yes the Spirit reproves and convicts of all sin.

All the prophets of Israel were speaking mostly to God's people . We see the word of the prophets as led by the Spirit and the word of God was what they heard and preached. Even men after God's own heart like David who sinned had to hear the Spirit led rebuke and conviction from a prophet who spoke by the Spirit. we see many examples of Prophets warning Gods people of sin as they were led by the Spirit.

Isaiah 58:1
Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins."

This would have been done by the Spirit and the leading and preaching by the Spirit.

I said

"LoveofTruth said: ↑
Titus 1:9
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers""

and you said

So by our lives we can show the gainsayers that they are wrong.

No it is by the faithful word and sound doctrine we do so. And all overseers/elders must be made so by the Holy Ghost (Acts 20) and they are commended to God and the word of Hos grace that is able to build them up. As they preach the word to others in the gatherings. They are to reprove rebuke and exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. This convincing the gainsayes in by the power of the Spirit. This is done to believers also that they may be sound in the faith and warned as well.

1 Timothy 5:20
"Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear."

This was spoken to be done in gatherings of the This kind of Spirit led rebuke in the name and power of Christ is for all the body to fear as well. All things that are reproved are made manifest by the light . That really means all things. And sin that is shown to a believer comes from the Spirit (the Light) shining in their heart.

Ephesians 5:13
"But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light."

the purpose of the law, to expose sin. Nothing here about the Spirit convicting believers of sin.

The work of the law is written in the hearts Roman 2;14 and in Deuteronomy 30 we read that the commandment was not hidden from them but was nigh unto them that was the word in the heart. The word of God is like a fire and a hammer and a sharper two edged sword. God looks to those who tremble at his word and as believers we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. The words Jesus spoke he said were spirit and they are life. He also said we are his disciples if we continue in His word.

Here are some verses about the word. Consider that the word of God convicts by the power of God's Spirit and the word is in believers, we are born again by the word of God and must walk in the word and abide in the word. The word is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart and sharp.

Psalm 119:11
"Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee."

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

"11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it."(Deut. 30:10-14 KJV)

Jeremiah 23:29
Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?"

2 Timothy 4:2
"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine."

Isaiah 66:5
"Hear the word of the Lord, ye that tremble at his word;..."

Philippians 2:12
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

Psalm 119:11
"Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee."

1 Thessalonians 2:13
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe."

The word will also convict and convince. This is in the Spirit and the word is also spiritual in the heart. The word is as a light that shineth in a dark place. The word is a light unto my path.

This is why unbelievers don't like the light.

Believer are to walk in the light and come to the light. The light will reprove all things. And ministers reprove and rebuke the church. It is by the light that their sins are manifest in them. As scripture teaches

i am wondering if you are saying that a believer can never sin again and they do not have to ever repent of sin. ? And that God will not shone in their hearts to convict them of sin?

Where does this verse say anything about the Spirit convicting the believers of sin? I just see Paul being sad.

What?

Paul said he would bewail many which have sinned already and not repented of their fornication etc...Paul was led by the Spirit in what he said and did. It was not in his own power he reproved and convinced and convicted them of sin. You cannot escape verses like these. You must admit this.

2 Corinthians 12:21
And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed."

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Spoken to believers who had fallen and were in sin and needed to repent. Jesus said to some "

Luke 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.'

If a believer sins and God tells them to repent it is a serious issue. Godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation

2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death."

Jesus talking to a church and if they didn't repent they wouldn't be a church anymore.
Not losing there salvation.

If men don't repent they can be lost. Also we see in laodicea Jesus speaking to a church as well and he said he would spew them out of his mouth if they remained lukewarm. In another church we read

"2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."(Revelation 3:2-6 KJV)

Sounds like salvation issue to me. This also is spoken by the Spirit the churches reproving them of sin, and convicting them. We see this with many of the churches.

Like I said before and will say again, there are no verses that say the Holy Spirit will convict us of sin.

There are many. To many to list there.

 

[GodsGrace101]

This from your earlier post about 1 John 1:9
You say you believe this, why did you ever bring it up in this thread?
Every time I sin I thank God He has forgiven me for that sin.
Most people do not realize when they say they are required to ask for forgiveness that they are telling there heart that they are not forgiven. They say they know they are already forgiven, but when they have this question they begin to doubt they are already forgiven.
This leads to all kinds of problems.
Doctrinal errors such as the one in this thread where people say we are not eternally saved unless we perform something or don't sin or something else they say we have to do.
Best thing to do is have gratitude that you are forgiven.

Those who don't know that they are secure in Christ will always have doubts about God's love for them.
Those who know they are forgiven much, love much. Luke 7:40-50

You guys like to say that you know you are secure in Christ because of your obedience.
I know I am secure in Christ because of Jesus' obedience.

I only want to answer to your last paragraph and statement.

I NEVER said I feel secure because of my obedience.
We DO NOT come to Jesus already in obedience and then become saved.

We become saved and then we obey our Lord and Master.
To BELIEVE means to OBEY.
If we believe in Jesus, we trust Him enough to obey Him.

Where, in the entire bible, does it say we are not required to obey? I'm not speaking about being under the Law, I'm speaking about obeying...
John 14:21

 

[GodsGrace101]

No, we need to be cleansed from our sins, in order to restore "relational" forgiveness, as the article you posted says, by confession. Not by asking.


That and 10 cents won't get you a cup of coffee either.


If you really want cleansing and maintenance of fellowship, you need to confess your sins to God.


Yet, all you do is talk about asking for forgiveness.

Do you not understand the difference between confessing (naming) your sins vs asking forgiveness for your sins?

Why would I need to confess my sins at all IF, according to you,
I'm saved no matter what?

Are you contradicting yourself?

So, I could sin as Jesus and Paul tell us not to and I'd still fall under your false concept of OSAS,
but I need to confess my sins?

This is contradiction, pure and simple.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Haven't started. What in the world would possess one to make such a comment?

Let's see FG.
YOU said I shouldn't talk about things I know nothing about...
SO...
I said YOU should stop talking about the entire bible.

See?
Maybe THIS is why you have a problem with scripture??
That was a VERY EASY concept to understand...

 

[FreeGrace2]

You have continually ignored Scripture. Otherwise, you would know I did not present any opinion at all.

my statement stands. You've not provided any Scripture that teaches that one can lose salvation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said in post #824:

The indwelling Holy Spirit seals us IN HIM. This indwelling is a deposit, which is a guarantee of our inheritance.

It's a guarantee of our inheritance only so long as we continue to believe (Hebrews 3:14) and do not commit unrepentant sin (Hebrews 12:17).

Why would Jesus leave that out of His statement on the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life in John 10:28?

You can't answer this because there is no answer for it.

The reality is that IF there were any conditions for never perishing, then Jesus would have included them in John 10:28.

The FACT that He didn't proves that there aren't any. Period.

That's right, with regard to initial salvation (1 Corinthians 15:2), but not ultimate salvation (1 Thessalonians 5:8b; Romans 8:23-25).

No such thing as "initial vs ultimate" salvation.

Once saved, will never perish.

There are no verses about eternal security

This opinion does NOT stand up to Jesus' words in John 10:28.

when they are properly taken in the context of other verses (Isaiah 28:9-10) which show that there are conditions for us not perishing (e.g. Luke 13:3).

There are NO verses that "redefine" Jesus' words in John 10:28 to mean anything other than eternal security.

And neither you nor anyone else has shown otherwise.

No, He wasn't. For He expects us to know every word of the Bible (Matthew 4:4), and not just John 10:28.

I agree. And there are NO OTHER verses that remove the teaching of eternal security from John 10:28.

It is the clearest statement of eternal security in the Bible. But the only statement on eternal security.

So, what verse actually states that salvation can be lost? You ain't got any.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Doug Melven said: ↑
Like I said before and will say again, there are no verses that say the Holy Spirit will convict us of sin.

There are many. To many to list there.

Do you not understand the challenge here?

DM didn't ask for a whole litany of verses. He clearly said there are "no verses", and this is how you respond?

Your response reveals your total lack of evidence for ANY verse that says what you claim.

The response is simply a cop-out.

He wasn't asking for "too many to list".

EVEN just one verse would refute his challenge. But you couldn't even do that.