Eternal Security - Is the Gospel

[FreeGrace2]

Oh, gee. I hope I didn't wake you when I tiptoed out.

 

[FreeGrace2]

How do YOU understand John 3:36?
WHO said it's grace or nothing at all?
Post some scripture.

How about Eph 2:8,9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

I don't think it could have been said any more clear than this.

 

[FreeGrace2]

But there is evidence that people can be blotted out of the book of life.

No. The literary technique of "litotes" does not mean reality.

“Erase their names from the Book of Life; don’t let them be counted among the righteous.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭69:28

Maybe you didn't notice, but this a human being telling God what to do.

Where is the verse that actually SAYS that God will do it.

“All who are victorious will be clothed in white. I will never erase their names from the Book of Life, but I will announce before my Father and his angels that they are mine.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:5

This is the litotes I was referencing.

 

[LoveofTruth]

So you think God shows you what is wrong? Is that so you can figure out the best way to deal with it? Proverbs 3:5-6 and 14:12 I think should sufficiently answer that.

God does show all of us what is right and wrong. the light reproves all things. And the Spirit will reprove the word of sin , righteousness and judgement to come. Notice the world all are reproved of these things. When we believe their is a war between the flesh and Spirit and as we abide in Christ we are dead to the power of the flesh and we do not walk in the flesh. But if we sin willfully and are led away by the error of the wicked and fall by our hardened heart, the Spirit of God will still reprove us of sin and righteousness and judgement to come.

and if a believer falls away from grace and loves the world and doe not have the love of the father in him anymore or if he hates his brother and no longer remains in eternal life. The person is now of the world and will be reproved again of sin, righteousness and judgement to come

This is similar as Paul said in timothy. The law is good if a man use it lawfully. It is not made for a righteous man but for sinners. So if a man goes back into sin and flesh and the workls of the law etc. The law can again expose their sin and this is similar how the Spirit of God can reprove any of sin.

But when we abide in Christ the anointing teaches us all things and shows us many things even others errors and false doctrines etc. The Spirit of God will also shine light on things that we need convincing on and that we may be weak in and misunderstand etc.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Psalms 69:28

Just another verse where a human tells God what to do.

Doesn't work that way in real life.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You can believe what you will DM.

As do you.

I can't take time to argue out everything with you.

Maybe if you had answers you could.

I studied theology and taught this stuff to kids.

Poor kids.

Not EVERYTHING about our faith is found in the bible.
It took theologians to figure some things out.
That's all I'll say.

Well, you've said WAY more than enough. If not everything about faith is found in the Bible, where would it be found?

In the opinions of people?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Romans 7:24
Did you know you were a wretched man before you were saved?
I don't think so.
The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin.
In fact, the closer you get to God, the more you're aware of sin.

No verse. Sorry.

Must be just one of those opinion things, huh.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No, the verse can relate to those who once had eternal life as sheep of Jesus and were blotted out.

Yet, John 10:28 is Jesus telling us that His sheep shall never perish.

In direct contrast to your opinion.

And that doesn't bother you even a little bit?

 

[GodsGrace101]

How about Eph 2:8,9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

I don't think it could have been said any more clear than this.

Best you can do?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Must be just one of those opinion things, huh.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I believe that every person who believes that salvation can be lost does NOT believe what Jesus said in John 10:28, which is about eternal security.


Please don't kid yourself. There's been many churches that always believed in eternal security.

Through the centuries there's been many different groups of believers, not just one "Christian Church" as you seem to think.

Many don't believe what Jesus taught, but many did.

No you have had John 10:28 explained many times to you in many different ways and with many other verses. The aspect you missed was the conditions for eternal life which were believing , faith and then abiding and continuing in that faith. Also the aspect of following Jesus. To follow Jesus a person in faith must pick up their cross daily and follow him to be his disciple and continue in the word abiding in him. Read John 15 about 100 times and pray each time as you read it. Notice that if you are in the vine the life of the vine can flow through you. But if you are cut off the vine there is no life flowing through you. This is about salvation in Christ and abiding (remaining, continuing) or not abiding ( remaining or continuing) in him. We must also eat his flesh and drink his blood to have life in us and to have eternal life. This eating and drinking is a daily abiding by faith

also consider other verses that we read about "eternal life", these all go along with John 10:28

"16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.")Matthew 19:16-21 KJV) The rich young ruler broke every commandment and he needed to come to Jesus the right way in faith and follow him. The law is a schoolmaster to bring him unto Jesus to be justified by faith. Then he can fulfill the law in faith and love.

Mark 10:28-30 KJV
"28 Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.
29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life."

John 3:15
"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

Galatians 6:8
"For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting."

1 Timothy 6:12
"Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses."

John 4:36
"And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together."

John 6:54
"Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Romans 6:22
"But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

John 6:40
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 5:24
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 4:14
"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 12:25
"He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal."

Titus 1:2
"In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

John 6:68
"Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life."

John 17:3
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

"24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life."(1 John 2:24,25 KJV)

 

[GodsGrace101]

No you have had John 10:28 explained many times to you in many different ways and with many other verses. The aspect you missed was the conditions for eternal life which were believing , faith and then abiding and continuing in that faith. Also the aspect of following Jesus. To follow Jesus a person in faith must pick up their cross daily and follow him to be his disciple and continue in the word abiding in him. Read John 15 about 100 times and pray each time as you read it. Notice that if you are in the vine the life of the vine can flow through you. But if you are cut off the vine there is no life flowing through you. This is about salvation in Christ and abiding (remaining, continuing) or not abiding ( remaining or continuing) in him. We must also eat his flesh and drink his blood to have life in us and to have eternal life. This eating and drinking is a daily abiding by faith

also consider other verses that we read about "eternal life", these all go along with John 10:28

"16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.")Matthew 19:16-21 KJV) The rich young ruler broke every commandment and he needed to come to Jesus the right way in faith and follow him. The law is a schoolmaster to bring him unto Jesus to be justified by faith. Then he can fulfill the law in faith and love.

Mark 10:28-30 KJV
"28 Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.
29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life."

John 3:15
"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

Galatians 6:8
"For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting."

1 Timothy 6:12
"Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses."

John 4:36
"And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together."

John 6:54
"Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Romans 6:22
"But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

John 6:40
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 5:24
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 4:14
"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 12:25
"He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal."

Titus 1:2
"In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

John 6:68
"Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life."

John 17:3
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

I believe some here have a special Bible with only one verse in it....John 10:28

 

[LoveofTruth]

Yet, John 10:28 is Jesus telling us that His sheep shall never perish.

In direct contrast to your opinion.

And that doesn't bother you even a little bit?

Read post 991 and my post 639 again and again

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
How about Eph 2:8,9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

I don't think it could have been said any more clear than this.

Best you can do?

Well, at least we all know how impressed with Scripture you are.

 

[Doug Melven]

Romans 7:24
Did you know you were a wretched man before you were saved?
I don't think so.
The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin.
In fact, the closer you get to God, the more you're aware of sin.

No verse. Sorry.

The Holy Spirit convicted me of unbelief.
When I saw the law, I knew what a wretched man I was.
Getting a glimpse of the holiness of God showed it even more.
And the Accuser of the brethren is always pointing out my sin, and he keeps bringing it up.
No need to convict me of sin, I need a revelation of righteousness. John 16:8-9
And seriously think about the concept of the Holy Spirit convicting you of sin.
Would He convict you of sin based on what you know of Scripture, or what He knows of Scripture?
If you don't know of a Scripture that says what you did was a sin, would He still be grieved?
Could you imagine having a person who is always with you and every time you sinned, He reminded you of it?
He might say I am reminding you because I love you. But every single sin you commit, He reminds you of.
How long before you wish this person would just leave you alone?
Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
To him that knows to do good and does it not, to him it is sin.
Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. And your neighbor as yourself.

O LORD, if You should mark iniquity who could stand? Psalm 130:3

What if the word of God is not read?
Are you saying the written word is more powerful than the Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit will never contradict the Word.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I believe some here have a special Bible with only one verse in it....John 10:28

yes well its a good thing they don't have this verse only or we would be all trying to talk to foxes

Luke 13:32
And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected."

I can hear the arguments already, they could say,

"No, I don't care it says go and tell that fox, we can talk to foxes and preach to them"

 

[GodsGrace101]

I said:
How about Eph 2:8,9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

I don't think it could have been said any more clear than this.

Well, at least we all know how impressed with Scripture you are.

I know more than one verse.....

 

[FreeGrace2]

No you have had John 10:28 explained many times to you in many different ways and with many other verses.[/WUOTE]
Here's the deal. No other verse has any effect on John 10:28. It is a statement of the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life, which NO ONE and NO VERSE has refuted.

As to having the verse "explained in many different ways", that's the problem.

There is only one way to understand the verse. All of the "different ways" are in error, because they refuse to acknowledge the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life.

The aspect you missed was the conditions for eternal life which were believing , faith and then abiding and continuing in that faith.

If these are conditions for never perishing, then Jesus has let us all down, by failing to include them in the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT VERSE in the Bible, because without listing any conditions, He communicated that there are NO CONDITIONS for believers to meet in order to not perish.

How can you not understand this very simple concept?

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Yet, John 10:28 is Jesus telling us that His sheep shall never perish.

In direct contrast to your opinion.

And that doesn't bother you even a little bit?

Read post 991 and my post 639 again and again

No thank you.

John 10:28 is way more clear on eternal security than any verse supposedly teaching OSNAS.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I know more than one verse.....

Then why did you ask for verses? I was responding to a question of yours.