Eternal Security - Is the Gospel

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EternallyKeptByJesus

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I am amazed at how anyone can think salvation is insecure. God made it so clear its all about what Jesus did for us and not our works. The gospels make this so clear as well as Romans where God contrast the difference between those who are trying to earn their way into heaven by doing works or good deeds or some form of obedience as apposed to faith in the God who justifies the ungodly.

Furthermore there are so many examples that make it clear that salvation is secure. We are predestined not to be saved but to become like Jesus. Salvation is eternal, which if you lost it, then God lied. Then there is the fact that we are already buried and raised with Christ. We are already a new creation now, not later if we continue doing good. The fact that God speaks of circumcision of the heart. Circumcision can not be undone, so neither can salvation.

One a person is saved they are a child of God. The concept when that was written had no concept of the idea of a someone who is a child becoming not a child. Even now the concept is not possible. Even if you don't like your parents you can never change the fact that you will always be the child of your parents.

So, there for the secure salvationist their god is more than willing to take their child that they claim to love to no end and throw them into a horrible burning fire that will never end. I don't know any normal or healthy parent that would ever throw their child into a fire for punishment. So if that is god, then his creation is better the god himself, and that god needs to learn what basic love is.

If Jesus died on the cross and suffered so he can guilt us and make us feel bad, then you can keep it. I have enough without that level of guilt.

But praise God, the true God freely forgives, justifies the ungodly, saves murders, rapist, incest people, adulters, drunkards, those who lived their whole life living for self and more. These categories are people in the Bible. The true God, loves us freely and at a level we could never fully imagine this side of eternity.

No matter what we do, we are always forgiven, loved and accepted. The insecure condemning god makes me want to live in sin and be as far away from him as possible. The unconditional loving God, makes me want to run to Him and when I sin, to run to Him all the more.

Love is a far better motivation to live right than threats of beatings and the worst torment ever, that being hell. People that love to preach insecure salvation do so because they are full of so much extreme pride because they think themselves perfect or close to it. Those who know salvation is secure realize that their is nothing in them that could ever save them or keep their salvation so they run to love and the God who freely justifies them.

Be Blessed.
 

Call me Nic

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I agree with you about eternal security of salvation.

But I'm going to warn you: you just opened up a can of worms that you know not of. I wish you luck in the field of battle, sir. *salutes*
 
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GodsGrace101

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I am amazed at how anyone can think salvation is insecure. God made it so clear its all about what Jesus did for us and not our works. The gospels make this so clear as well as Romans where God contrast the difference between those who are trying to earn their way into heaven by doing works or good deeds or some form of obedience as apposed to faith in the God who justifies the ungodly.

Furthermore there are so many examples that make it clear that salvation is secure. We are predestined not to be saved but to become like Jesus. Salvation is eternal, which if you lost it, then God lied. Then there is the fact that we are already buried and raised with Christ. We are already a new creation now, not later if we continue doing good. The fact that God speaks of circumcision of the heart. Circumcision can not be undone, so neither can salvation.

One a person is saved they are a child of God. The concept when that was written had no concept of the idea of a someone who is a child becoming not a child. Even now the concept is not possible. Even if you don't like your parents you can never change the fact that you will always be the child of your parents.

So, there for the secure salvationist their god is more than willing to take their child that they claim to love to no end and throw them into a horrible burning fire that will never end. I don't know any normal or healthy parent that would ever throw their child into a fire for punishment. So if that is god, then his creation is better the god himself, and that god needs to learn what basic love is.

If Jesus died on the cross and suffered so he can guilt us and make us feel bad, then you can keep it. I have enough without that level of guilt.

But praise God, the true God freely forgives, justifies the ungodly, saves murders, rapist, incest people, adulters, drunkards, those who lived their whole life living for self and more. These categories are people in the Bible. The true God, loves us freely and at a level we could never fully imagine this side of eternity.

No matter what we do, we are always forgiven, loved and accepted. The insecure condemning god makes me want to live in sin and be as far away from him as possible. The unconditional loving God, makes me want to run to Him and when I sin, to run to Him all the more.

Love is a far better motivation to live right than threats of beatings and the worst torment ever, that being hell. People that love to preach insecure salvation do so because they are full of so much extreme pride because they think themselves perfect or close to it. Those who know salvation is secure realize that their is nothing in them that could ever save them or keep their salvation so they run to love and the God who freely justifies them.

Be Blessed.
Not everyone can agree with you.
You've stated a great deal but with no scripture.

You claim your concept above, which I've highlighted, did not even exist,,,I presume when the biblical books were gathered?

In any case, could you show some support for this?
 
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EternallyKeptByJesus

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Not everyone can agree with you.
You've stated a great deal but with no scripture.

You claim your concept above, which I've highlighted, did not even exist,,,I presume when the biblical books were gathered?

In any case, could you show some support for this?


Its not that they can't, its that they choose not too. Just like the Pharisees who refused to accept that God would forgive sinners apart from the law.

I don't as a rule give verses because those who in the insecure salvation camp go to the Bible with a concept that one verse cancels out another.

But to the fact that we are the children of God, is John 1:12. To those who believe, not perform he gave the power to become the children of God. Ga 3:26 - We are the children of God. There are many others, if you do a google search you can find them.

If a person does not like their parents can they go somewhere and somehow have all their genetic make up changed or get a different body so that they will no longer be their parents child - no. You can't undo being the child of your parents. In like manner you can't undo being a child of God once saved.

Be Blessed
 
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EternallyKeptByJesus

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I agree with you about eternal security of salvation.

But I'm going to warn you: you just opened up a can of worms that you know not of. I wish you luck in the field of battle, sir. *salutes*

Actually I knew that. But I wanted to express the truth whether others like it or not. But I won't get into quarreling.

I won't be battling, because the truth is a fact. I may comment to some. But I won't get into fighting to make anyone change their mind. That would be like someone who does not believe that stars or clouds exist. Its a fact, who would try to argue with someone who denies what's right before their eyes.

The Bible is so clear. And to deny eternal security is to do away with verses that they don't like.

Thanks for your comment and encouragement.

Be Blessed
 
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Call me Nic

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God cannot lie (Titus 1:2). Because of his inability to lie, when God promises you ETERNAL/EVERLASTING life upon receiving Jesus Christ by faith, you cannot lose it, otherwise it wouldn't be everlasting. Nothing can separate from the love of God in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:38-39).

I mean, I would seriously like to know what Bible verses people who believe they can lose their salvation turn to in order to prove their beliefs.
 
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Call me Nic

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Actually I knew that. But I wanted to express the truth whether others like it or not. But I won't get into quarreling.

I won't be battling, because the truth is a fact. I may comment to some. But I won't get into fighting to make anyone change their mind. That would be like someone who does not believe that stars or clouds exist. Its a fact, who would try to argue with someone who denies what's right before their eyes.

The Bible is so clear. And to deny eternal security is to do away with verses that they don't like.

Thanks for your comment and encouragement.

Be Blessed
Agreed, people will either believe the Bible or not.
 
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GodsGrace101

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Its not that they can't, its that they choose not too. Just like the Pharisees who refused to accept that God would forgive sinners apart from the law.

I don't as a rule give verses because those who in the insecure salvation camp go to the Bible with a concept that one verse cancels out another.

But to the fact that we are the children of God, is John 1:12. To those who believe, not perform he gave the power to become the children of God. Ga 3:26 - We are the children of God. There are many others, if you do a google search you can find them.

If a person does not like their parents can they go somewhere and somehow have all their genetic make up changed or get a different body so that they will no longer be their parents child - no. You can't undo being the child of your parents. In like manner you can't undo being a child of God once saved.

Be Blessed
Along with the believing, is there Any performance necessary?

Does God require us to obey the commandments?

Also, if you don't use scripture, how am I to know it's not just your opinion?
 
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Doug Melven

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I mean, I would seriously like to know what Bible verses people who believe they can lose their salvation turn to in order to prove their beliefs.
They use Scriptures like these taken out of context.
Psalms 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Matthew 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
 
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BNR32FAN

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No matter what we do we are always forgiven? Not exactly true. If we turn away from God we can lose our salvation. If we don’t repent we can lose our salvation. If we sin against the Holy Spirit we will lose our salvation. Here are some examples of ways to lose salvation. Some of them are even believers.

A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. A tree is identified by its fruit. Figs are never gathered from thornbushes, and grapes are not picked from bramble bushes. A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart. What you say flows from what is in your heart. “So why do you keep calling me ‘Lord, Lord!’ when you don’t do what I say? I will show you what it’s like when someone comes to me, listens to my teaching, and then follows it. It is like a person building a house who digs deep and lays the foundation on solid rock. When the floodwaters rise and break against that house, it stands firm because it is well built. But anyone who hears and doesn’t obey is like a person who builds a house right on the ground, without a foundation. When the floods sweep down against that house, it will collapse into a heap of ruins.


Luke 6:43-49


What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone?


James 2:14


So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless.


James 2:17


Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see, his faith and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith complete. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” He was even called the friend of God. So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone.


James 2:21-24


Rahab the prostitute is another example. She was shown to be right with God by her actions when she hid those messengers and sent them safely away by a different road. Just as the body is dead without breath, so also faith is dead without good works.


James 2:25-26


Anyone who isn’t with me opposes me, and anyone who isn’t working with me is actually working against me. “So I tell you, every sin and blasphemy can be forgiven—except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which will never be forgiven. Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, either in this world or in the world to come. “A tree is identified by its fruit. If a tree is good, its fruit will be good. If a tree is bad, its fruit will be bad. You brood of snakes! How could evil men like you speak what is good and right? For whatever is in your heart determines what you say. A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart. And I tell you this, you must give an account on judgment day for every idle word you speak. The words you say will either acquit you or condemn you.


Matthew 12:30-37


Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.


Matthew 7:15-20


Anyone who listens to my teaching and follows it is wise, like a person who builds a house on solid rock. Though the rain comes in torrents and the floodwaters rise and the winds beat against that house, it won’t collapse because it is built on bedrock. But anyone who hears my teaching and doesn’t obey it is foolish, like a person who builds a house on sand. When the rains and floods come and the winds beat against that house, it will collapse with a mighty crash.


Matthew 7:24-27


I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me. “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.


John 15:1-6


When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.


Galatians 5:19-21


Even now the ax of God’s judgment is poised, ready to sever the roots of the trees. Yes, every tree that does not produce good fruit will be chopped down and thrown into the fire.


Matthew 3:10


Let them be blotted out of the book of life, And not be written with the righteous.


Psalms 69:28


I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.


Revelation 20:12-15


Nothing evil will be allowed to enter, nor anyone who practices shameful idolatry and dishonesty—but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.


Revelation 21:27


For the Kingdom of God is not just a lot of talk; it is living by God’s power.


1 Corinthians 4:20


I tell you, the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation that will produce the proper fruit.


Matthew 21:43


But Jesus told him, “Anyone who puts a hand to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the Kingdom of God.


Luke 9:62


Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such sins have no place among God’s people. Obscene stories, foolish talk, and coarse jokes—these are not for you. Instead, let there be thankfulness to God. You can be sure that no immoral, impure, or greedy person will inherit the Kingdom of Christ and of God. For a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him.


Ephesians 5:3-6


But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit upon his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered in his presence, and he will separate the people as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep at his right hand and the goats at his left. “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’ “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!’ “Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons. For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’ “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’ “And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’ “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.


Matthew 25:31-46


Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a fishing net that was thrown into the water and caught fish of every kind. When the net was full, they dragged it up onto the shore, sat down, and sorted the good fish into crates, but threw the bad ones away. That is the way it will be at the end of the world. The angels will come and separate the wicked people from the righteous, throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Matthew 13:47-50


Jesus replied, “The Son of Man is the farmer who plants the good seed. The field is the world, and the good seed represents the people of the Kingdom. The weeds are the people who belong to the evil one. The enemy who planted the weeds among the wheat is the devil. The harvest is the end of the world, and the harvesters are the angels. “Just as the weeds are sorted out and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the world. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will remove from his Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father’s Kingdom. Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand!


Matthew 13:37-43


Here is another story Jesus told: “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer who planted good seed in his field. But that night as the workers slept, his enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat, then slipped away. When the crop began to grow and produce grain, the weeds also grew. “The farmer’s workers went to him and said, ‘Sir, the field where you planted that good seed is full of weeds! Where did they come from?’ “An enemy has done this!’ the farmer exclaimed. “‘Should we pull out the weeds?’ they asked. “No,’ he replied, ‘you’ll uproot the wheat if you do. Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds, tie them into bundles, and burn them, and to put the wheat in the barn.


Matthew 13:24-30


A faithful, sensible servant is one to whom the master can give the responsibility of managing his other household servants and feeding them. If the master returns and finds that the servant has done a good job, there will be a reward. I tell you the truth, the master will put that servant in charge of all he owns. But what if the servant is evil and thinks, ‘My master won’t be back for a while,’ and he begins beating the other servants, partying, and getting drunk? The master will return unannounced and unexpected, and he will cut the servant to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Matthew 24:45-51


All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children. “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.


Revelation 21:7-8


Then he said, “I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven. So anyone who becomes as humble as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven. “And anyone who welcomes a little child like this on my behalf is welcoming me. But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea. “What sorrow awaits the world, because it tempts people to sin. Temptations are inevitable, but what sorrow awaits the person who does the tempting. So if your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one hand or one foot than to be thrown into eternal fire with both of your hands and feet. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.


Matthew 18:3-10
 
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Call me Nic

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No matter what we do we are always forgiven? Not exactly true. If we turn away from God we can lose our salvation. If we don’t repent we can lose our salvation. If we sin against the Holy Spirit we will lose our salvation. Here are some examples of ways to lose salvation. Some of them are even believers.

A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. A tree is identified by its fruit. Figs are never gathered from thornbushes, and grapes are not picked from bramble bushes. A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart. What you say flows from what is in your heart. “So why do you keep calling me ‘Lord, Lord!’ when you don’t do what I say? I will show you what it’s like when someone comes to me, listens to my teaching, and then follows it. It is like a person building a house who digs deep and lays the foundation on solid rock. When the floodwaters rise and break against that house, it stands firm because it is well built. But anyone who hears and doesn’t obey is like a person who builds a house right on the ground, without a foundation. When the floods sweep down against that house, it will collapse into a heap of ruins.


Luke 6:43-49


What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone?


James 2:14


So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless.


James 2:17


Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see, his faith and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith complete. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” He was even called the friend of God. So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone.


James 2:21-24


Rahab the prostitute is another example. She was shown to be right with God by her actions when she hid those messengers and sent them safely away by a different road. Just as the body is dead without breath, so also faith is dead without good works.


James 2:25-26


Anyone who isn’t with me opposes me, and anyone who isn’t working with me is actually working against me. “So I tell you, every sin and blasphemy can be forgiven—except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which will never be forgiven. Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, either in this world or in the world to come. “A tree is identified by its fruit. If a tree is good, its fruit will be good. If a tree is bad, its fruit will be bad. You brood of snakes! How could evil men like you speak what is good and right? For whatever is in your heart determines what you say. A good person produces good things from the treasury of a good heart, and an evil person produces evil things from the treasury of an evil heart. And I tell you this, you must give an account on judgment day for every idle word you speak. The words you say will either acquit you or condemn you.


Matthew 12:30-37


Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.


Matthew 7:15-20


Anyone who listens to my teaching and follows it is wise, like a person who builds a house on solid rock. Though the rain comes in torrents and the floodwaters rise and the winds beat against that house, it won’t collapse because it is built on bedrock. But anyone who hears my teaching and doesn’t obey it is foolish, like a person who builds a house on sand. When the rains and floods come and the winds beat against that house, it will collapse with a mighty crash.


Matthew 7:24-27


I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me. “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.


John 15:1-6


When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.


Galatians 5:19-21


Even now the ax of God’s judgment is poised, ready to sever the roots of the trees. Yes, every tree that does not produce good fruit will be chopped down and thrown into the fire.


Matthew 3:10


Let them be blotted out of the book of life, And not be written with the righteous.


Psalms 69:28


I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.


Revelation 20:12-15


Nothing evil will be allowed to enter, nor anyone who practices shameful idolatry and dishonesty—but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.


Revelation 21:27


For the Kingdom of God is not just a lot of talk; it is living by God’s power.


1 Corinthians 4:20


I tell you, the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation that will produce the proper fruit.


Matthew 21:43


But Jesus told him, “Anyone who puts a hand to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the Kingdom of God.


Luke 9:62


Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such sins have no place among God’s people. Obscene stories, foolish talk, and coarse jokes—these are not for you. Instead, let there be thankfulness to God. You can be sure that no immoral, impure, or greedy person will inherit the Kingdom of Christ and of God. For a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him.


Ephesians 5:3-6


But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit upon his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered in his presence, and he will separate the people as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep at his right hand and the goats at his left. “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’ “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!’ “Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons. For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’ “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’ “And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’ “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.


Matthew 25:31-46


Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a fishing net that was thrown into the water and caught fish of every kind. When the net was full, they dragged it up onto the shore, sat down, and sorted the good fish into crates, but threw the bad ones away. That is the way it will be at the end of the world. The angels will come and separate the wicked people from the righteous, throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Matthew 13:47-50


Jesus replied, “The Son of Man is the farmer who plants the good seed. The field is the world, and the good seed represents the people of the Kingdom. The weeds are the people who belong to the evil one. The enemy who planted the weeds among the wheat is the devil. The harvest is the end of the world, and the harvesters are the angels. “Just as the weeds are sorted out and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the world. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will remove from his Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father’s Kingdom. Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand!


Matthew 13:37-43


Here is another story Jesus told: “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer who planted good seed in his field. But that night as the workers slept, his enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat, then slipped away. When the crop began to grow and produce grain, the weeds also grew. “The farmer’s workers went to him and said, ‘Sir, the field where you planted that good seed is full of weeds! Where did they come from?’ “An enemy has done this!’ the farmer exclaimed. “‘Should we pull out the weeds?’ they asked. “No,’ he replied, ‘you’ll uproot the wheat if you do. Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds, tie them into bundles, and burn them, and to put the wheat in the barn.


Matthew 13:24-30


A faithful, sensible servant is one to whom the master can give the responsibility of managing his other household servants and feeding them. If the master returns and finds that the servant has done a good job, there will be a reward. I tell you the truth, the master will put that servant in charge of all he owns. But what if the servant is evil and thinks, ‘My master won’t be back for a while,’ and he begins beating the other servants, partying, and getting drunk? The master will return unannounced and unexpected, and he will cut the servant to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Matthew 24:45-51


All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children. “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.


Revelation 21:7-8


Then he said, “I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven. So anyone who becomes as humble as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven. “And anyone who welcomes a little child like this on my behalf is welcoming me. But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea. “What sorrow awaits the world, because it tempts people to sin. Temptations are inevitable, but what sorrow awaits the person who does the tempting. So if your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one hand or one foot than to be thrown into eternal fire with both of your hands and feet. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.


Matthew 18:3-10
What Bible version do you use?
 
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Doug Melven

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If our salvation is up to us to keep, then none of us will ever keep our salvation.
Because nobody can love God with all there heart, soul, mind and strength 24/7/365 for however long they will live.
Nobody does every single act by faith. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Thank God He doesn't remember our sins and He doesn't hold them against us or deal with us according to our sins.
Psalms 103:10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
103:11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
 
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If our salvation is up to us to keep, then none of us will ever keep our salvation.
Because nobody can love God with all there heart, soul, mind and strength 24/7/365 for however long they will live.
Nobody does every single act by faith. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Thank God He doesn't remember our sins and He doesn't hold them against us or deal with us according to our sins.
Psalms 103:10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
103:11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

So why do you keep calling me ‘Lord, Lord!’ when you don’t do what I say? I will show you what it’s like when someone comes to me, listens to my teaching, and then follows it. It is like a person building a house who digs deep and lays the foundation on solid rock. When the floodwaters rise and break against that house, it stands firm because it is well built. But anyone who hears and doesn’t obey is like a person who builds a house right on the ground, without a foundation. When the floods sweep down against that house, it will collapse into a heap of ruins.

Luke 6:43-49

“What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone?”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:14‬

“You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless?”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:19-20‬

Sure no one will be perfect but that doesn’t mean that they don’t need to make any attempt to follow God’s Word.
 
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EternallyKeptByJesus

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Along with the believing, is there Any performance necessary?

Does God require us to obey the commandments?

Also, if you don't use scripture, how am I to know it's not just your opinion?

If you are actually seeking, then wow. You are gold. Because most people just in the insecure camp that I have experience totally disregard anything said or verses quoted.

Your posting seems very genuine. You are very refreshing.

Does God require us to obey the commandments - No. Not for salvation. The commandments that we are to obey is to believe in Jesus and love one another.

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Why don't we have to obey the commandments, for two reasons. One because Jesus full filled the law. If you have a loan and you have paid it all off, thus full filling your obligation I suggest don't make any more payments.

Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.

Also, the law was not really given as a set of requirements to be obeyed to earn salvation or standing with God. The purpose of the law was given until the Messiah Jesus would come.

Gal 3:19 So what was the law for? The law was given to show the wrong things people do. The law would continue until the special Descendant of Abraham came. This is the Descendant mentioned in the promise, which came directly from God. But the law was given through angels, and the angels used Moses as a mediator to give the law to the people.

The law was also given so that we could see that sin was indeed sinful and wrong.

Rom 5:20 The Law came, so that the full power of sin could be seen. Yet where sin was powerful, God's kindness was even more powerful.

Finally Jesus did away with the law by full filling it. Therefore I don't mean did away in the sense that He abolished it but by fulfilling the requirements of it, God had the right to do away with it and implement what he always intend on implementing - Grace.

Col 2:14 God wiped out the charges that were against us for disobeying the Law of Moses. He took them away and nailed them to the cross.

Joh 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came to be through Jesus Christ.

As to the what gets many upset at eternal security which is the idea then we can just willingly live in sin and they want to argue that eternal security gives them the right to do so without consequences.

As far as salvation goes that is true but that does not mean that there is no consequences. If you know the story of Abraham and Lot, the bible calls Lot a righteous man.

2Pe 2:7 and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked.

How can that be. When you read the story its hard to see that. He willingly choose to live in sin city. He was willing to give his daughters to a mob to be raped, he later lived in incest with them and he was a drunkard. How it can be is because God said it is the shedding of Blood that washes sins away.

Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in its blood; and I have given it to you on the altar to take away your sin: for it is the blood which makes free from sin because of the life in it.

In the new covenant Jesus blood is for the washing away of our sins.

Eph 1:7 In whom we have salvation through his blood, the forgiveness of our sins, through the wealth of his grace,

But getting back to Abraham and Lot. Even though Lot was saved, he did not live a good life. In the end of his life he lived in a cave. By comparing Abraham's life and Lot's, you will see a distinct difference between those who would willing live in sin and those who would not.

Abraham was not without sin. Even to the extreme that he was willing to let another man have sex with his wife to save his life. So Abraham slipped up, but he did not live in that constant sin every day of his life.

If you have more questions feel free to ask.

Be Blessed
 
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If you are actually seeking, then wow. You are gold. Because most people just in the insecure camp that I have experience totally disregard anything said or verses quoted.

Your posting seems very genuine. You are very refreshing.

Does God require us to obey the commandments - No. Not for salvation. The commandments that we are to obey is to believe in Jesus and love one another.

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Why don't we have to obey the commandments, for two reasons. One because Jesus full filled the law. If you have a loan and you have paid it all off, thus full filling your obligation I suggest don't make any more payments.

Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.

Also, the law was not really given as a set of requirements to be obeyed to earn salvation or standing with God. The purpose of the law was given until the Messiah Jesus would come.

Gal 3:19 So what was the law for? The law was given to show the wrong things people do. The law would continue until the special Descendant of Abraham came. This is the Descendant mentioned in the promise, which came directly from God. But the law was given through angels, and the angels used Moses as a mediator to give the law to the people.

The law was also given so that we could see that sin was indeed sinful and wrong.

Rom 5:20 The Law came, so that the full power of sin could be seen. Yet where sin was powerful, God's kindness was even more powerful.

Finally Jesus did away with the law by full filling it. Therefore I don't mean did away in the sense that He abolished it but by fulfilling the requirements of it, God had the right to do away with it and implement what he always intend on implementing - Grace.

Col 2:14 God wiped out the charges that were against us for disobeying the Law of Moses. He took them away and nailed them to the cross.

Joh 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came to be through Jesus Christ.

As to the what gets many upset at eternal security which is the idea then we can just willingly live in sin and they want to argue that eternal security gives them the right to do so without consequences.

As far as salvation goes that is true but that does not mean that there is no consequences. If you know the story of Abraham and Lot, the bible calls Lot a righteous man.

2Pe 2:7 and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked.

How can that be. When you read the story its hard to see that. He willingly choose to live in sin city. He was willing to give his daughters to a mob to be raped, he later lived in incest with them and he was a drunkard. How it can be is because God said it is the shedding of Blood that washes sins away.

Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in its blood; and I have given it to you on the altar to take away your sin: for it is the blood which makes free from sin because of the life in it.

In the new covenant Jesus blood is for the washing away of our sins.

Eph 1:7 In whom we have salvation through his blood, the forgiveness of our sins, through the wealth of his grace,

But getting back to Abraham and Lot. Even though Lot was saved, he did not live a good life. In the end of his life he lived in a cave. By comparing Abraham's life and Lot's, you will see a distinct difference between those who would willing live in sin and those who would not.

Abraham was not without sin. Even to the extreme that he was willing to let another man have sex with his wife to save his life. So Abraham slipped up, but he did not live in that constant sin every day of his life.

If you have more questions feel free to ask.

Be Blessed

Actually the most important commandment is to love God with all your heart, soul, and mind and a second commandment which is equally important is to love each other as Jesus loves us.
 
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EternallyKeptByJesus

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Then he said, “I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven. So anyone who becomes as humble as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven. “And anyone who welcomes a little child like this on my behalf is welcoming me. But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea. “What sorrow awaits the world, because it tempts people to sin. Temptations are inevitable, but what sorrow awaits the person who does the tempting. So if your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one hand or one foot than to be thrown into eternal fire with both of your hands and feet. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.


Matthew 18:3-10


All of this is taken out of context or you used bad translations for your interpretations. If you want to know the truth do a search for eternal security and problem passages it will clear up your misconceptions.

The biggest problem with your concepts is simple. If you was correct than salvation would be of works, which is totally false.

I will address one verse that you used a bad translation for. Matthew 18:3 does not say turn from sin. Not in the original language.

Follow this link for the greek interpretation of that verse - Matthew 18:3 Interlinear: and said, 'Verily I say to you, if ye may not be turned and become as the children, ye may not enter into the reign of the heavens;

Why only one verse, simple, I am not going to get that involved in debating the false doctrine of insecure salvation. The division between the true Gospel and the false gospel of insecure salvation is are you saved by faith or works. Just that simple.

A thorough search and research into all those verses would clearly show that they are not referring to true born again believers

Be Blessed.
 
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Actually the most important commandment is to love God with all your heart, soul, and mind and a second commandment which is equally important is to love each other as Jesus loves us.


That is old testament.

Be Blessed
 
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