Establish The Law

[Gary K]

Indeed! Obedience in the Holy Spirit leads to righteousness leading to holiness Ro 6:16, 19).

So when Soyeong says the same thing I have been saying all along you agree with him? Looks personal to me.

 

[Gary K]

God enables all believers, Gentile and Jew, to walk in the obedience of the Holy Spirit.

But you believe Gentiles can't keep the law of God. The Holy Spirit is never in conflict with the Bible.

 

[Clare73]

You don't recognize a sense of humor when you see one? My comment was not meant to put you down.

Sorry, I tend to be literal.
Didn't see it.

 

[Clare73]

So when Soyeong says the same thing I have been saying all along you agree with him? Looks personal to me.

Believe me! It's not!

 

[Clare73]

But you believe Gentiles can't keep the law of God.

I give up, do I?

The Holy Spirit is never in conflict with the Bible.

Okay, if you say so.

 

[Gary K]

God enables all believers, Gentile and Jew, to walk in the obedience of the Holy Spirit.

You don't really believe that because you deny anyone's ability to keep the 10 commandments.

Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Peter is quoting Leviticus 20:7.

Lev 20:7 Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God.
Lev 20:8 And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I am the LORD which sanctify you.

 

[Gary K]

Believe me! It's not!

Then why agree with him when you tell me I have no clue as to how to read scripture when we're saying the same thing.

 

[pasifika]

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law, so the Mosaic Law is the law of faith.

Faith is expressed as being a doer of the law and as being justified, but being a doer of the law does not result in being justified. So having faith, being a doer of the law, and being justified are all linked such that if one of those three is true of someone, then the others are also true, and if one of those three is not true of someone, then the others are also not true. In other words all of those who have faith are also doers of the law and are being justified, all of those who are doers of the law also have faith and are being justified, and all those who are being justified also have faith and are doers of the law. This is how Paul can say both that only doers of the law will be justified (Romans 2:13), which is because only doers of the law have faith, while also denying that we can earn our justification as the result of being a doer of the law (Romans 4:1-5). Likewise, this is how Paul can that we are justified by faith without being the result of being a doer of the law while also saying that the same faith by which we are justified is also expressed by being a doer of the law, so being justified by faith does not abolish our need to be a doer of the law (Romans 3:27-31).

Jesus in Matt 23:23, was referring to God's law in which the Mosaic law & Faith are pointed to. (Law of Righteousness) Romans 3:21.

The Mosaic law is NOT based on Faith..Galatians 3:12, so, The Mosaic law is the Law based on "works" as in Romans 3: 27.

 

[Soyeong]

Jesus in Matt 23:23, was referring to God's law in which the Mosaic law & Faith are pointed to. (Law of Righteousness) Romans 3:21.

In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God commanded without departing from it, so Mosaic Law was commanded by God and is thus God's law. Furthermore, the Law of Moses is referred to as the Law of God in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23. The phrase "Law and the Prophets" used in Romans 3:21 also refers to the Mosaic Law.

The Mosaic law is NOT based on Faith..Galatians 3:12, so, The Mosaic law is the Law based on "works" as in Romans 3: 27.

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit is given to those who obey God, so obedience to what God has instructed is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however, Galatians 3:1-2 denies that works of the law are part of the way to receive the Spirit, therefore the phrase "works of the law" does not refer to obedience to what God has instructed. In Romans 3:27-31, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works, while he said that our faith upholds God's law, so it is of faith, and a law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith Galatians 3:10-12. Moreover, in Galatians 3:10-12, Paul associated a quote from Habakkuk 2:4 saying that the righteous shall live by faith with a quote from Leviticus 18:5 that the one who obeys the Mosaic Law will live by it, so the righteous living by faith are the ones who are living in obedience to the Mosaic Law. Likewise, in Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is the Mosaic Law, so the righteous living by faith does not refer to a manner of living that is not in obedience to it. God is trustworthy, therefore what He has instructed is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to have faith in God is by having faith in what He has instructed, to deny that what God has instructed is of faith is to deny the faithfulness of God, and it is contradictory to think that we should have faith in God, but not in what He has instructed.

Furthermore, there are many other verses like Matthew 23:23 and Romans 3:31 that connect our faith in God with our obedience to what He has instructed. In James 2:18, he would show his faith by his works. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. In Hebrews 11, every example of faith is an example of obedience to God. In Numbers 5:6, disobedience to the Mosaic Law is referred to as breaking faith. In Hebrews 3:18-19, unbelief is equated with disobedience. In Psalms 119:30, choosing the way of faithfulness is having the Mosaic Law on our heart. In Proverbs 3:5-7, we have a choice between whether we are going to lean on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes or whether we are going to trust in God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong through what He has instructed, and He will make our paths straight. I could list many more verses, but that should be sufficient to show that you are incorrectly identifying the law that those verses are referring to as being the Mosaic Law.

 

[Studyman]

Jesus is our righteousness in that his atonement and sacrifice removed our sin, unrighteousness.

Heb. 10: 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Paul says the same thing.

Rom. 6: 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Jesus was very clear on this.

Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

It seems clear in the Scriptures that it doesn't matter who we are, Jew or Gentile, rich or poor, black or white, what really matters in this life is "Keeping the Commandments of God", as it is written.

Ecc. 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

The Christ of the Bible teaches the exact same thing.

Rev. 22: 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

We are judged by our works, not Jesus'. This is why it is written.

1 John 3: 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

And again;

1 John 2: 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

And again;

1 John 2: 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

There is:
1) forensic righteousness - imputed in God's declaration of "not guilty," sentence of acquittal, finding of right standing with the Court; i.e., penalty paid, time served, nothing owing to the Court,
2) actual righteousness - through obedience in the Holy Spirit which leads to righteousness leading to holinesss (Ro 6:16, 19), and
3) Jesus our righteousness - his atoning sacrifice removing our sin, unrighteousness.

There is:

The Holy Scriptures given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

And there are also, as the Christ of the Bible warns, "many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

It seems prudent to trust the Scriptures definition of Righteousness, more than the many who come in Christ's Name.

 

[Clare73]

But you believe Gentiles can't keep the law of God. The Holy Spirit is never in conflict with the Bible.

Was anyone able to keep the law of God in the OT?

 

[Clare73]

It seems prudent to trust the Scriptures definition of Righteousness, more than the many who come in Christ's Name.

Agreed, keeping in mind it is used in three different ways.

 

[Dahveed]

Studyman said:
It seems prudent to trust the Scriptures definition of Righteousness, more than the many who come in Christ's Name.

Agreed, keeping in mind it is used in three different ways.

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. Rom 8:29-30

 

[Studyman]

Studyman said:
It seems prudent to trust the Scriptures definition of Righteousness, more than the many who come in Christ's Name.

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. Rom 8:29-30

In my understanding God knows the end from the beginning. So therefore, HE would know in advance who "repented" and turned to HIM, from those who only served Him with their lips.

Rom. 8: 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. (Not Calvins or the Popes or Russel, etc.)

Therefore, those who truly repented and brought forth works worthy of repentance, God foreknew, knowing the end from the beginning. And since from the beginning, God promised, "And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.". Therefore, those men who trusted God, that HE knew before they were even born, are "Predestined" to receive Mercy, and to be conformed to the image of His Son, or "Become Christlike" or as Paul teaches in Romans 6, "To become Servants of God's Righteousness", as was the Lord's Christ. But not before HE called them, for "many" are called, but few are chosen, because many who are called don't keep God's Commandments, rather, they listen and take direction from "many" preachers of this world who come in Christ's name. Instead of "yielding themselves" servants to obey God as Paul teaches, they transgress God's Commandments so they can walk in the religious traditions of the religious sects of this world they adopted. Jesus warned of these "many".

The deceiver would have us believe that God picks winners and losers according to some secret Holy Lottery, where men don't have a choice or say in who God chooses to Justify, or who God chooses not to Justify. That men are "Predestined" to Eternity regardless of their choices. This is of course, foolishness because guilt cannot be honestly assigned to men who have no choice. The deceiver uses "Some" of God's Word to deceive men today, the same way it used "Some" of God's Word to deceive Eve.

That's why I said to the brethren, "It seems prudent to trust the Scriptures definition of Righteousness, more than the many who come in Christ's Name" that the Jesus of the Bible warned about.

 

[Dahveed]

Rom. 8: 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. (Not Calvins or the Popes or Russel, etc.)

Has Christ been divided? Of course not. 1 Cor 1:13

In my understanding God knows the end from the beginning. So therefore, HE would know in advance who "repented" and turned to HIM, from those who only served Him with their lips.

God, who knows the hearts, confirmed that He accepted them, by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us. Acts 15:8

The deceiver would have us believe that God picks winners and losers according to some secret Holy Lottery, where men don't have a choice or say in who God chooses to Justify, ...

Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God; 2 Cor 1:21

That's why I said to the brethren, "It seems prudent to trust the Scriptures definition of Righteousness, more than the many who come in Christ's Name" that the Jesus of the Bible warned about.

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 1 John 2:20

 

[Diamond72]

Yes. Jesus is our sanctification. Our all-in-one source for righteousness.

You have to get the horse before the Cart. Because of Jesus we are righteous and sanctified. This is what redemption means. The Law does not redeem us, but the law does show us what it means to be redeemed or saved.

 

[Diamond72]

Grammar, context and the context of NT teaching show the meaning.

In Hebrew every letter has a symbolic meaning. Context helps but we need to go way beyond that if we want to properly understand the Word of God. A is the first letter and it represents the Ox or the lead animal in a herd.

 

[Gary K]

You have to get the horse before the Cart. Because of Jesus we are righteous and sanctified. This is what redemption means. The Law does not redeem us, but the law does show us what it means to be redeemed or saved.

Just where did I say the law redeems us? I've never said something that moronic. I'm not that dumb.

 

[Diamond72]

Just where did I say the law redeems us?

1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

You are correct the law does not redeem us.
I said that those who are redeemed follow the law.
You keep getting the cart before the horse.

 

[Gary K]

1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

You are correct the law does not redeem us.
I said that those who are redeemed follow the law.
You keep getting the cart before the horse.

How am I getting the cart before the horse?