Establish The Law

[Leaf473]

No. Here's another definition for you. It's an object lesson such as the law to not wear clothing from mixed cloth such as wool and linen. It teaches that we are not to have divided hearts that are partly devoted to God and partly devoted to the world, or in other words, the devil.

The law you listed teaches us not to cheat the workman out of his wages. Paul uses it to teach that the minister deserves a living wage.

Now see, that's cool

To me, that's basically saying keep the entire law, keep it metaphorically. Or if you want to say keep it spiritually, or as an object lesson, those are other possibilities

 

[Gary K]

Now see, that's cool

To me, that's basically saying keep the entire law, keep it metaphorically. Or if you want to say keep it spiritually, or as an object lesson, those are other possibilities

Go read at my last post on the Is sinning necessary thread and I think you'll come to a different understanding of the covenants.

 

[Leaf473]

Go read at my last post on the Is sinning necessary thread and I think you'll come to a different understanding of the covenants.

Okay... I believe this is the post in that thread previous to "Today at 11:31 AM"

I guess you're not very familiar with the book of Job.



Job understood love for others is the basis of the law of God.

Here is more from Job along these lines.





This demonstrates that Job was not proud of himself. He didn't have a big ego. He knew who his righteousness came from.

The following shows that even Job's three friends understood what righteous behavior consisted of. Funny that they accused Job of what he denied doing and wanted his case put directly before God.






This demonstrates that Job knew God intimately and Jesus said the following:

Well, I agree that Job had some ideas about right and wrong. It doesn't change my ideas about covenants. Would you like to elaborate?

 

[Gary K]

Okay... I believe this is the post in that thread previous to "Today at 11:31 AM"

Well, I agree that Job had some ideas about right and wrong. It doesn't change my ideas about covenants. Would you like to elaborate?

Why would God consider Job perfect for obeying His law, which is the 10 commandments, and then change the covenant so Christians don't need to? Isn't that the definition of unfainess? Why is the testimony of Jesus the 10 commandments and prophecy tell us there will be a people at the time of the end who keep God's law and have the testimony of Jesus?

 

[Cribstyl]

You're not looking at the context of 1 John 5:2-3- love to God and neighbor is keeping the commandments of God.

Love to God and neighbors is the new commandments of God not the ten.

 

[sparow]

Whoever said that Paul was difficult to understand might be trying to ignore the truth and create their own doctrines. Paul wrote all the doctrines of Christianity that Gentiles should hold.
Who did Christ appear to and sent to teach the Gospel? Why did the Jerusalem council conclude that Paul should go teach the Gentiles and they would go teach the Jews?

The Law, also called the covenant, is established in the OT, confirmed in and by Christ as the second witness, as a second signatory. The NT will not be confirmed until Christ returns; until then we can test NT teachings (teachings of Christ) with the OT and when there is agreement know that the teaching is true.


It was the apostle Peter (2 Peter 3:16) who said Paul was difficult to understand. Peter was able to communicate with the person, we have 2000 year old translations which most likely contain much editing; the same applies to all the NT so the need to use the OT and NT when in agreement.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Love to God and neighbors is the new commandments of God not the ten.

I don’t see a scripture text that says this…..Jesus said the commandments of God are from the Ten as its a direct quote Mat 15:3-9 He is a trustworthy source and God identified the unit of Ten as His commandments right in the Ten Exo 20:6 i.e. the commandments of God and it is what reveals sin Romans 7:7 and our salvation is from sin, not in sin Mat 1:21. Love to God and neighbor is keeping the commandments of God 1 John 5:2-3. and keeping them is what matters 1 Cor 7:19

Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Leaf473]

Why would God consider Job perfect for obeying His law, which is the 10 commandments,

I disagree with the premise of your question. What would lead us to believe that Job was following only the Ten Commandments?

Is this one of the Ten Commandments? Maybe it is, but I can't think of which one

Bible Gateway passage: Job 29:12 - New American Standard Bible

Because I saved the poor who cried for help, And the orphan who had no helper.

www.biblegateway.com

Job was also doing burnt offerings.

Bible Gateway passage: Job 1:5 - New American Standard Bible

When the days of feasting had completed their cycle, Job would send word to them and consecrate them, getting up early in the morning and offering burnt offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said, “Perhaps my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” Job did so continually.

www.biblegateway.com

...and then change the covenant so Christians don't need to? Isn't that the definition of unfainess?

Why is the testimony of Jesus the 10 commandments and prophecy tell us there will be a people at the time of the end who keep God's law and have the testimony of Jesus?

I'm not following your question. What scripture passage leads you to believe that the testimony of Jesus is the 10 commandments?

Are you thinking of this?

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 12:17 - New American Standard Bible

So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

www.biblegateway.com

If so, that says Commandments of God. What is the connection to the Ten Commandments, and the Ten Commandments only, and not the Book of Leviticus?

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 27:34 - New American Standard Bible

These are the commandments which the LORD commanded Moses for the sons of Israel on Mount Sinai.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Gary K]

I disagree with the premise of your question. What would lead us to believe that Job was following only the Ten Commandments?

Is this one of the Ten Commandments? Maybe it is, but I can't think of which one

Bible Gateway passage: Job 29:12 - New American Standard Bible

Because I saved the poor who cried for help, And the orphan who had no helper.

www.biblegateway.com

Job was also doing burnt offerings.

Bible Gateway passage: Job 1:5 - New American Standard Bible

When the days of feasting had completed their cycle, Job would send word to them and consecrate them, getting up early in the morning and offering burnt offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said, “Perhaps my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” Job did so continually.

www.biblegateway.com

I'm not following your question. What scripture passage leads you to believe that the testimony of Jesus is the 10 commandments?

Are you thinking of this?

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 12:17 - New American Standard Bible

So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

www.biblegateway.com

If so, that says Commandments of God. What is the connection to the Ten Commandments, and the Ten Commandments only, and not the Book of Leviticus?

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 27:34 - New American Standard Bible

These are the commandments which the LORD commanded Moses for the sons of Israel on Mount Sinai.

www.biblegateway.com

I posted these scriptures earlier in this thread along with the Greek definitions so I guess you didn't actually read the thread.

Revelation 14: 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

1Corinthians 1: 5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

Exodus 25: 21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.

 

[Leaf473]

I posted these scriptures earlier in this thread along with the Greek definitions so I guess you didn't actually read the thread.

Not every single post in the thread, no

That same word can be used in the plural, and contrasted with Commandments. Or possibly it's synonymous with Commandments and precepts.

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Kings 23:3 - New King James Version

Then the king stood by a pillar and made a covenant before the Lord, to follow the Lord and to keep His commandments and His testimonies and His statutes, with all his heart and all his soul, to perform the words of this covenant that were written in this book. And all the people took a stand...

www.biblegateway.com

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_kings/23-3.htm

 

[Gary K]

I disagree with the premise of your question. What would lead us to believe that Job was following only the Ten Commandments?

Is this one of the Ten Commandments? Maybe it is, but I can't think of which one

Bible Gateway passage: Job 29:12 - New American Standard Bible

Because I saved the poor who cried for help, And the orphan who had no helper.

www.biblegateway.com

Job was also doing burnt offerings.

Bible Gateway passage: Job 1:5 - New American Standard Bible

When the days of feasting had completed their cycle, Job would send word to them and consecrate them, getting up early in the morning and offering burnt offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said, “Perhaps my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” Job did so continually.

www.biblegateway.com

I'm not following your question. What scripture passage leads you to believe that the testimony of Jesus is the 10 commandments?

Are you thinking of this?

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 12:17 - New American Standard Bible

So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

www.biblegateway.com

If so, that says Commandments of God. What is the connection to the Ten Commandments, and the Ten Commandments only, and not the Book of Leviticus?

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 27:34 - New American Standard Bible

These are the commandments which the LORD commanded Moses for the sons of Israel on Mount Sinai.

www.biblegateway.com

I posted these scriptures earlier in this thread.

Revelation 14: 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Not every single post in the thread, no

That same word can be used in the plural, and contrasted with Commandments. Or possibly it's synonymous with Commandments and precepts.

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Kings 23:3 - New King James Version

Then the king stood by a pillar and made a covenant before the Lord, to follow the Lord and to keep His commandments and His testimonies and His statutes, with all his heart and all his soul, to perform the words of this covenant that were written in this book. And all the people took a stand...

www.biblegateway.com

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_kings/23-3.htm

If you will go back and read the Greek for testimony in 1Corinthians 1: 6 it is Decalogue.

 

[Soyeong]

Good definitions make for good discussions.

For those who believe that love is defined as keeping certain commandments, it would be helpful to the discussion if they would say which commandments... especially the gray areas

The Bible often uses the same terms to describe aspects of the nature of God as it does to describe aspects of the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12) or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23), which is because it is God's instruction for how to act in accordance with those aspects of God's nature. For example, by doing good works, we are testifying that God is good, which is expressing the belief that God is good, which is expressing our love for God's goodness, and which is experiencing the expression of God's goodness. So everything that God has chosen to command was specifically commanded to teach us how to love different aspects of God's nature, which is why there are many verses in both the OT and the NT that connect our love for God with our obedience to His commandments. If someone refuses to obey any of God's laws that God has given, then those are aspects of God's nature that they do not love, which is why Jesus said in John 14:23-23 that those who love him will obey his teachings and that those who do not love him will not obey his teachings.

 

[Leaf473]

I posted these scriptures earlier in this thread.

If you will go back and read the Greek for testimony in 1Corinthians 1: 6 it is Decalogue.

Bible Gateway passage: ΠΡΟΣ ΚΟΡΙΝΘΙΟΥΣ Α΄ 1:6 - SBL Greek New Testament

καθὼς τὸ μαρτύριον τοῦ Χριστοῦ ἐβεβαιώθη ἐν ὑμῖν,

www.biblegateway.com

Sorry, I'm not seeing what you're talking about

 

[Leaf473]

The Bible often uses the same terms to describe aspects of the nature of God as it does to describe aspects of the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12) or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23), which is because it is God's instruction for how to act in accordance with those aspects of God's nature. For example, by doing good works, we are testifying that God is good, which is expressing the belief that God is good, which is expressing our love for God's goodness, and which is experiencing the expression of God's goodness. So everything that God has chosen to command was specifically commanded to teach us how to love different aspects of God's nature, which is why there are many verses in both the OT and the NT that connect our love for God with our obedience to His commandments. If someone refuses to obey any of God's laws that God has given, then those are aspects of God's nature that they do not love, which is why Jesus said in John 14:23-23 that those who love him will obey his teachings and that those who do not love him will not obey his teachings.

I believe it follows, then, that the definition of love for God would include the entire law.

 

[Soyeong]

I believe it follows, then, that the definition of love for God would include the entire law.

Indeed, there are many verses that describe the Mosaic Covenant as being a marriage covenant between God and Israel, so the purpose of the entire Mosaic Law is to teach us how to have an intimate relationship with God.

 

[Cribstyl]

The Law, also called the covenant, is established in the OT, confirmed in and by Christ as the second witness, as a second signatory. The NT will not be confirmed until Christ returns; until then we can test NT teachings (teachings of Christ) with the OT and when there is agreement know that the teaching is true.

Yes, the law is the OLD covenant written on stone and given through Moses. (Moses was the mediator between God and Israel. (Gal3:19)
Yes, the gospel is the NEW covenant (I don't believe you agree with that) ( Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant.
Heb 12:24 — And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Heb 7:22
By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Heb 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

It was the apostle Peter (2 Peter 3:16) who said Paul was difficult to understand. Peter was able to communicate with the person, we have 2000 year old translations which most likely contain much editing; the same applies to all the NT so the need to use the OT and NT when in agreement.

Christ appeared to 1 man and made him the apostle to the Gentiles. Paul wrote every doctrine of Christianity.

 

[sparow]

Yes, the law is the OLD covenant written on stone and given through Moses. (Moses was the mediator between God and Israel. (Gal3:19)
Yes, the gospel is the NEW covenant (I don't believe you agree with that) ( Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant.
Heb 12:24 — And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Heb 7:22
By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Heb 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:


Christ appeared to 1 man and made him the apostle to the Gentiles. Paul wrote every doctrine of Christianity.

You have inspired me to start a new thread regarding the covenants.


I would say Paul has discolored every teaching of God. These out of context quotes from Hebrews seem harmless; but I wonder if Jesus would be impressed. It is not a matter of whether it true or false, it hides the real purpose of Christ. Using Paul in a universal way misrepresent Paul also.

Paul claims to have been sent by Christ, I do not believe it.