Establish The Law

[daq]

Here is another interesting reference from a study of elohim
Psalm 8:
5 For You have made him a little lower than the elohim,
And You have crowned him with glory and honor.
Tradition translates 'angels' and Hebrews 2 carries this forward.
But when was Yeshua ever placed below angels? He was casting
out demons and ordering them not to speak of Him as the Son of God,
for He was demonstrating the authority of the Son of man, an authority
He bestows on His disciples. The angels are identified as "ministering spirits",
which they provided to the Lord in the wilderness, and as He assured Nathaniel
"you will see angels ascending and descending upon the Son of man" John 1
However, He did set Himself below the elohim, as you have rightly identified as
the highest judges, who sit in Moses seat.
Luke 12:
13 Then one from the crowd said to Him,
“Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.”
14 But He said to him, “Man, who made Me a judge or an arbitrator over you?”
John 12:
47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him;
for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—
the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

Good points. Perhaps the Son is a little lesser than the Messengers in the sense that he is within them, (for all the true Messengers of the Father speak His Word, and not of themselves, (agency)). In the text which you have quoted, Psalm 8:5 specifically, we find indeed the word elohim, but it has a mem prefix. Whenever we have a word like this with a prefix, (i.e. also bet, lamed, or kaph prefix), it takes the place of the definite article if indeed the article was intended, (sometimes yes, sometimes no, and sometimes one cannot tell whether the article should be read or not).

For this reason the LXX renders elohim as messengers or angels, (aggelos). The reason why is because there are places where elohim with the definite article attached can mean judges, messengers, angels, mighty ones, etc., etc., just as in the Exodus 22 passage quoted previously. The article is the indicator that this is sometimes what is meant, (but not always), and thus the translators of the LXX counted the mem prefix in this instance as implying the article, "a little lower than(mem, from) haElohim", that is, the Messengers or Angels according to their reading-understanding of the statement in Psalm 8:5.

The author of Hebrews confirms this reading by quoting the LXX, and thus, the Son is merely a little lesser than the Messengers only in the sense that they speak him, the Word of the Father, for he, the Word, is within the Messengers. Moreover in this manner the Messengers may also include the Prophets: and do they not all therefore bow to the Son? for they all speak and write him and of him. In a similar sense also the Son is a Messenger, (uncreated), THE Messenger, just as he keeps saying in the Gospel accounts, that his Father is the One who sent him.

Of men having been born of women there is none greater than the Immerser: but he that is least in the kingdom is greater than the Immerser. Who is the least in the kingdom? The one who is within every true messenger of the kingdom: for the true messengers speak the Word of the Father, that is of course the Son, the Word, who quickens and reveals the Father to whom he will, (Matthew 11:27, John 5:21).

 

[Minister Monardo]

Good points. Perhaps the Son is a little lesser than the Messengers in the sense that he is within them, (for all the true Messengers of the Father speak His Word, and not of themselves, (agency)).

This reminds me of His words here:
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

Of men having been born of women there is none greater than the Immerser: but he that is least in the kingdom is greater than the Immerser. Who is the least in the kingdom? The one who is within every true messenger of the kingdom: for the true messengers speak the Word of the Father, that is of course the Son, the Word, who quickens and reveals the Father to whom he will,

This was uniquely true of John
John 1:
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.
Matthew 21:
24 But Jesus answered and said to them, “I also will ask you one thing, which if you tell Me,
I likewise will tell you by what authority I do these things:
25 The baptism of John—where was it from? From heaven or from men?”
And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ He will say to us, ‘
Why then did you not believe him?’
26 But if we say, ‘From men,’ we fear the multitude, for all count John as a prophet.”
27 So they answered Jesus and said, “We do not know.”
And He said to them, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.
Luke 7:
29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Those who received John, who was sent before the Lord, heard his teaching, and recognized and received the Lord.
John 10:
40 And He went away again beyond the Jordan to the place where John was baptizing at first, and there He stayed.
41 Then many came to Him and said, “John performed no sign, but all the things that John spoke about this Man were true.”
42 And many believed in Him there.

 

[Clare73]

I did when I read it. How is John talking about physically handling Jesus have anything to do with your assertion?

My "assertion" is that in "Word of life" (1 Jn 1:1)
"Word" refers to the gospel, not to Jesus, and

"life" refers to Christ, not to the Scriptures.

John's words "The eternal life which was with the Father and has appeared to us" are not referring to Scripture.

"Word of life" is not referring to Jesus as the word of God in Scripture, which is life.
It is referring to the "gospel of Christ."

 

[Clare73]

You saw my words but did you perceive and understand? Hearing, you did not hear? Logos cannot be seen with the natural physical eyes of man: only the letter may be seen with physical eyes. Thus there are multiple ways to see, and one is physical and ocular while the other is supernal and inward, that is, perception and understanding, and the same goes for hearing.

And to that point, wherein the issue lies:

"Logos" in Greek philosophy was the FIrst Cause, the great Intelligence and Reason behind the Universe.
John opens his gospel with the declaration that the recently despised and crucified man, Jesus of Nazareth, is the eternal logos, source of all wisdom and power, who became flesh in order to reveal God to us.
"Logos" in Jn 1:1, 14 is not about speech.

 

[Clare73]

Excellent posting! Herein lies the distinction from the Word recorded:
Psalm 68:11 The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it.
and the Logos, as the Holy Spirit conveyed to me,
The scriptures record what the Lord spoke, the Logos provide what He intended.
Reason is also good, as in>
1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense
to everyone who asks you a reason (logos) for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear.
This is most evident with the word spoken by Yeshua:
"You have heard it said ... but I say to you..." Matthew 5

Here is another interesting reference from a study of elohim
Psalm 8:
5 For You have made him a little lower than the elohim,
And You have crowned him with glory and honor.
Tradition translates 'angels' and Hebrews 2 carries this forward.
But when was Yeshua ever placed below angels? He was casting
out demons and ordering them not to speak of Him as the Son of God,
for He was demonstrating the authority of the Son of man, an authority
He bestows on His disciples. The angels are identified as "ministering spirits",
which they provided to the Lord in the wilderness, and as He assured Nathaniel
"you will see angels ascending and descending upon the Son of man" John 1

However, He did set Himself below the elohim, as you have rightly identified as
the highest judges, who sit in Moses seat.
Luke 12:
13 Then one from the crowd said to Him,
“Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.”
14 But He said to him, “Man, who made Me a judge or an arbitrator over you?”
John 12:
47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him;
for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—
the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

This reminds me of His words here:
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
This was uniquely true of John
John 1:
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.
Matthew 21:
24 But Jesus answered and said to them, “I also will ask you one thing, which if you tell Me,
I likewise will tell you by what authority I do these things:
25 The baptism of John—where was it from? From heaven or from men?”
And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ He will say to us, ‘
Why then did you not believe him?’
26 But if we say, ‘From men,’ we fear the multitude, for all count John as a prophet.”
27 So they answered Jesus and said, “We do not know.”
And He said to them, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.
Luke 7:
29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Those who received John, who was sent before the Lord, heard his teaching, and recognized and received the Lord.
John 10:
40 And He went away again beyond the Jordan to the place where John was baptizing at first, and there He stayed.
41 Then many came to Him and said, “John performed no sign, but all the things that John spoke about this Man were true.”
42 And many believed in Him there.

"Logos" in Greek philosophy was the First Cause, the great Intelligence and Reason behind the Universe.
John opens his gospel with the astounding declaration that the recently despised and crucified man, Jesus of Nazareth, is the eternal logos, source of all wisdom and power, who became flesh in order to reveal God to us.
"Logos" in Jn 1:1, 14 does not refer to speech nor God's words.

 

[daq]

And to that point, wherein the issue lies:

"Logos" in Greek philosophy was the FIrst Cause, the great Intelligence and Reason behind the Universe.
John opens his gospel with the declaration that the recently despised and crucified man, Jesus of Nazareth, is the eternal logos, source of all wisdom and power, who became flesh in order to reveal God to us.
"Logos" in Jn 1:1, 14 is not about speech.

What do we see and read over and over again in the opening chapter of Genesis?
And Elohim said, Gen 1:3, And Elohim said, Gen 1:6, And Elohim said, Gen 1:9, ............................

Isaiah 52:6 KJV
6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: [H1696 dabar] behold, it is I.

המדבר ~ ha·m·daber ~ "he who is speaking", "the one who is speaking".

H1696 is the verb, dabar, to speak.
H1697 is the noun, dabar, a word, words, or a saying, sayings, or a matter.

Before the pointing system was added to the Masoretic Hebrew text, (which is only about 1000 years old), these were the same word and only understood by the surrounding context. You are essentially choking on a gnat so as to make a point that only serves to uphold your paradigm which is already shown to be in opposition to the N/T Apostolic teachings of the N/T Apostolic authors.

The Logos is the reasoning and wisdom of Elohim which is within the logia oracles and rhema sayings which the written letters make up in the text. Again, you can see the letters with your natural-physical eyes, and you can read the words and sayings written by the use of letters and characters with your natural-physical eyes: but you cannot see the Logos with your natural-physical eyes because it is wisdom, reasoning, and understanding, and therefore the Logos does indeed speak to those with an ear to hear. Moreover the Logos is indeed within the written text by necessity, otherwise, we could not have the MIND and WILL of the Father written down for us in any way.

Believe what and whom you will. I will believe the Word as taught and spoken by the Word through the written Word. The one having an ear, let hear: the one having two ears, buy a sword.

 

[Minister Monardo]

"Logos" in Greek philosophy was the First Cause, the great Intelligence and Reason behind the Universe.

I am not interested in Greek philosophy. What matters is the words of Christ.
John 8:24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins;
for if you do not believe that I am , you will die in your sins.

"Logos" in Jn 1:1, 14 does not refer to speech nor God's words.

I am not sure why you felt the need to state this, as it was already discussed in much more detail
the BIBLICAL meaning and use of the word. Maybe it is because you felt the need to spam everyone
on the thread with your overly simplistic explanation from Greek philosophy.
First Cause? How about "In the beginning, God"!

 

[Clare73]

What do we see and read over and over again in the opening chapter of Genesis?
And Elohim said, Gen 1:3, And Elohim said, Gen 1:6, And Elohim said, Gen 1:9, ............................
Isaiah 52:6 KJV
6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: [H1696 dabar] behold, it is I.
המדבר ~ ha·m·daber ~ "he who is speaking", "the one who is speaking".
H1696 is the verb, dabar, to speak.
H1697 is the noun, dabar, a word, words, or a saying, sayings, or a matter.

Before the pointing system was added to the Masoretic Hebrew text, (which is only about 1000 years old), these were the same word and only understood by the surrounding context. You are essentially choking on a gnat so as to make a point that only serves to uphold your paradigm which is already shown to be in opposition to the N/T Apostolic teachings of the N/T Apostolic authors.

The Logos is the reasoning and wisdom of Elohim which is within the logia oracles and rhema sayings which the written letters make up in the text. Again, you can see the letters with your natural-physical eyes, and you can read the words and sayings written by the use of letters and characters with your natural-physical eyes: but you cannot see the Logos with your natural-physical eyes because it is wisdom, reasoning, and understanding, and therefore the Logos does indeed speak to those with an ear to hear. Moreover the Logos is indeed within the written text by necessity, otherwise, we could not have the MIND and WILL of the Father written down for us in any way.

Believe what and whom you will. I will believe the Word as taught and spoken by the Word through the written Word. The one having an ear, let hear: the one having two ears, buy a sword.

The written Word is not God. Jn 1:1 is clear that Jesus is the Word who is God, not the word of God.

Jesus is not speech, nor the written word of God, Jesus is the Word who is God.

 

[Minister Monardo]

The written Word is not God. Jn 1:1 is clear that Jesus is the Word who is God, not the word of God.

Jesus is not speech, nor the written word of God, Jesus is the Word who is God.

And yet, this is how He must be known!
John 10:
4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.
5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.
14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.

Numbers 7:89 Now when Moses went into the tabernacle of meeting to speak with Him, he heard The Voice of One speaking to him from above the mercy seat that was on the ark of the Testimony, from between the two cherubim;
thus He spoke to him.

Jeremiah 7:23 But this is what I commanded them, saying, ‘Obey My voice, and I will be your God,
and you shall be My people. And walk in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you.’

Genesis 26:5 Because Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

 

[Clare73]

I am not interested in Greek philosophy. What matters is the words of Christ.
John 8:24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins;
for if you do not believe that I am , you will die in your sins.

I am not sure why you felt the need to state this,

Which confirms your following confusion that I was addressing regarding Jesus as the word of God, in lieu of Jesus as the Word who is God.

The scriptures record what the Lord spoke, the Logos provide what He intended.

as it was already discussed in much more detail
the BIBLICAL meaning and use of the word. Maybe it is because you felt the need to spam everyone
on the thread with your overly simplistic explanation from Greek philosophy.
First Cause? How about "In the beginning, God"!

Yes, I must own that now.

Is a complicated explanation better?

 

[Minister Monardo]

The scriptures record what the Lord spoke, the Logos provide what He intended.

So you are using my statement without quoting me?

 

[Clare73]

So you are using my statement without quoting me?

Are you sure about that?

 

[Clare73]

And yet, this is how He must be known!
John 10:
4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.
5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.
14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.

I am likewise known by my voice, but it is not who I am.

Numbers 7:89 Now when Moses went into the tabernacle of meeting to speak with Him, he heard The Voice of One speaking to him from above the mercy seat that was on the ark of the Testimony, from between the two cherubim; thus He spoke to him.
Jeremiah 7:23 But this is what I commanded them, saying, ‘Obey My voice, and I will be your God,
and you shall be My people. And walk in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you.’
Genesis 26:5 Because Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

None of which are Jesus of Nazareth.
Nowhere in the NT does Jesus refer to himself as the word of God, nor is he ever called the word of God in the NT.

The NT testimony is that Jesus is the Word who is God (Jn 1:1 14), nowhere is there NT didactic testimony that he is the word of God.

 

[daq]

The written Word is not God. Jn 1:1 is clear that Jesus is the Word who is God, not the word of God.

Jesus is not speech, nor the written word of God, Jesus is the Word who is God.

Nice strawman, and you slayed him well, too bad you still do not appear to have a clue what has been said. Perhaps you might like to explain how the lawyer in the following episode came to the conclusion which he did by studying the Torah?

Luke 10:25-28 KJV
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

What is written in the Torah? How readest thou?

Deuteronomy 6:4-5 KJV
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19:17-18 KJV
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

The lawyer came to his conclusion by way of hearing at least some of the Logos in the Living Oracles of the Torah. And what about the Apostolic authors, especially Paul who does indeed quote from the Torah and expound the Meshiah from the Torah? Perhaps you might explain how Paul comes to his conclusions about Meshiah being referred to in Deuteronomy 30:11-14 when he quotes from there in Romans 10:6-8? That passage contains rhema, spoken word, in the LXX version, and Paul says it is Meshiah that is being spoken of in the passage, (dabar is rendered both as logos and rhema in the LXX).

Deuteronomy 30:11-14 KJV
11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word [H1697 dabar] is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Deuteronomy 30:14 LXX (Brenton English Translation)
14 The word [G4487 rhema] is very near thee, in thy mouth, and in thine heart, and in thine hands to do it.

Romans 10:6-8 KJV
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? [Dt 30:12] ( that is, to bring Christ down from above: )
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? [Dt 30:13] ( that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead. )
8 But what saith it? The word [G4487 rhema] is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word [G4487 rhema] of faith, which we preach;

The passage quoted starts off with, "For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off", and that commandment is the Word, and in this case rhema in the Greek, which is spoken word, (but still dabar, the noun, in the Hebrew text), and Paul teaches that this word spoken by Mosheh in the Torah is Meshiah, and apparently even the commandment too!

Who shall ascend into the heavens to get this commandment so we can hear it and do it? and Paul says, That is, to bring Meshiah down from above.

Who shall descend into the deep and bring this commandment to us that we may hear it and do it? and Paul says, That is, to bring up Meshiah again from the dead.

One cannot come to these conclusions without spiritually hearing, seeing, perceiving, and understanding the Logos which is within the rhema sayings and logion oracles of the scripture. Moreover Mosheh spoke all his words before they were written: and even more importantly, the Most High spoke all the things He says in the Torah in commanding Mosheh and Ahron. Most all of the Torah was spoken before it was written, and not only that, but the Prophets likewise spoke most all of their words before they were actually written down.

Therefore whenever anyone reads the holy scriptures, the fact that Mosheh, all the Prophets, Abraham, Yitzhak, and Yakob-Yisrael, Meshiah in the Gospel accounts, Peter, Yakob, Paul, and anyone else among the faithful whose words they may read in the scripture, speaks to them as they read, emphatically implies that they all continue to speak even unto this day, and that they live.

Have a nice afternoon, gotta go, I have a sit-down lunch date with father Abraham in the kingdom of Elohim today, (and of course the Master will be at the head of the table, (it's his table)).

 

[Clare73]

Nice strawman, and you slayed him well, too bad you still do not appear to have a clue what has been said.

I am responding to what has been said in the following:

Excellent posting! Herein lies the distinction from the Word recorded:
Psalm 68:11 The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it.
and the Logos, as the Holy Spirit conveyed to me,
The scriptures record what the Lord spoke, the Logos provide what He intended.

Logos being Reason, the Greek notion of the First Cause, it not being the notion of person, the Word who is God.

Reason is also good, as in>
1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense
to everyone who asks you a reason (logos) for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear.
This is most evident with the word spoken by Yeshua:
"You have heard it said ... but I say to you..." Matthew 5

Perhaps you might like to explain how the lawyer in the following episode came to the conclusion which he did by studying the Torah?

None of which has anything to do with the Word who is God being the word of God.

 

[Gary K]

I am responding to what has been said in the following:

Logos being Reason, the Greek notion of the First Cause, not being the notion of person, the Word who is God.


None of which indicates that the Word who is God is the word of God.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, for instruction in righteousness, Therefore all scripture is didactic so to say that any scripture that speaks of the Word of God is not teaching about Jesus the word of God is foolishness.

 

[Clare73]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, for instruction in righteousness, Therefore all scripture is didactic

Good for you.

I was making a distinction between didactics and prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8) and subject to more than one interpretation.

so to say that any scripture that speaks of the Word of God is not teaching about Jesus the word of God is foolishness.

Nowhere in the NT didactics, either by Jesus himself or the writers, is Jesus ever called the "word of God." Jesus is not speech. He is not Scripture. He is person.

He is only called the Word who is God, a big difference.

Let's not improve on the NT with our own notions.

 

[Clare73]

You saw my words but did you perceive and understand? Hearing, you did not hear? Logos cannot be seen with the natural physical eyes of man: only the letter may be seen with physical eyes. Thus there are multiple ways to see, and one is physical and ocular while the other is supernal and inward, that is, perception and understanding, and the same goes for hearing.

I think I hear 2 Co 3:6 here, so I will address it.
". . .for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

FIrst of all, it has nothing to do with an outward (by the letter) vs. an inward (supernal and inward, perception and understanding) seeing/knowing./hearing.
Rather, it has to do with law vs. grace, works vs. faith, Old Covenant vs. New Covenant.

The "letter" is the law, the written code, it is not Scripture in general.
The "Spirit" is the Holy Spirit, not the supernal and inward, perception and understanding.

The law kills because it curses all those who rely on it (Gal 310), because it must be kept perfectly to avoid punishment.
No one can do that, so it condemns everyone to death--it kills.
That's life under the Old Covenant.

Under the New Covenant we are made righteous by the new birth of the Holy Spirit, where through faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ, we are saved from God's justice on our sin ,and Jesus' righteousness is reckoned, accounted, imputed to us.

2 Co 3:6 has nothing to do with seeing with the physical eyes vs. supernal and inward, perception and understanding, seeing and hearing.

 

[daq]

I think I hear 2 Co 3:6 here, so I will address it.
". . .for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

FIrst of all, it has nothing to do with an outward (by the letter) vs. an inward (supernal and inward, perception and understanding) seeing/knowing./hearing.
Rather, it has to do with law vs. grace, works vs. faith, Old Covenant vs. New Covenant.

Matthew 13:10-17 ASV
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 And he answered and said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that which he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables; because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And unto them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall in no wise understand; And seeing ye shall see, and shall in no wise perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, And their ears are dull of hearing, And their eyes they have closed; Lest haply they should perceive with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And should turn again, And I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see; and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, that many prophets and righteous men desired to see the things which ye see, and saw them not; and to hear the things which ye hear, and heard them not.

The "letter" is the law, the written code, it is not Scripture in general.

Where is this written or taught in the scripture?
It is merely another of your opinions.

The "Spirit" is the Holy Spirit, not the supernal and inward, perception and understanding.

The law kills because it curses all those who rely on it (Gal 310), because it must be kept perfectly to avoid punishment.
No one can do that, so it condemns everyone to death--it kills.
That's life under the Old Covenant.

Another opinion based on ignorance of the scripture and the writings of Paul.

Under the New Covenant we are made righteous by the new birth of the Holy Spirit, where through faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ, we are saved from God's justice on our sin ,and Jesus' righteousness is reckoned, accounted, imputed to us.

Another paradigm-based opinion.

2 Co 3:6 has nothing to do with seeing with the physical eyes vs. supernal and inward, perception and understanding, seeing and hearing.

Every written text is comprised of letters, which are used for the formation of sentences containing sayings and utterances put down in writing. There is no other way to communicate the mind of Elohim in writing or the mind and thoughts of anyone else for that matter. Therefore the Master says, Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that which he thinketh he hath (Luke 8:18). This is absolutely necessary because the natural mind sees only according to the flesh and the outward while the mind of Elohim is not like our own minds, his thoughts are not our thoughts:

Isaiah 55:6-11 KJV
6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

The first and greatest commandment begins with an admonishment to HEAR, (O Yisrael), and this is the Shema which is quoted more fully in the Gospel of Mark.

Mark 12:29-30 ASV
29 Jesus answered, The first is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one:
30 and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength.

If you do not hear, and this is spiritual in meaning, then even what you imagine yourself to have will be taken from you.

Luke 8:18 ASV
18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that which he thinketh he hath [Matthew 13:12-15].

I have the Testimony of the Master and other scripture passages in support of everything I have said: you are merely offering up your paradigm-based opinions.

 

[Clare73]

Where is this written or taught in the scripture?

Ro 2:29, 7:6, where the letter is the written code, the law.

Another opinion based on ignorance of the scripture and the writings of Paul.

Then you don't understand Gal 3:10.

Another paradigm-based opinion.

Revealing that your paradigm is not the NT gospel.

Every written text is comprised of letters, which are used for the formation of sentences containing sayings and utterances put down in writing. There is no other way to communicate the mind of Elohim in writing or the mind and thoughts of anyone else for that matter. Therefore the Master says, Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that which he thinketh he hath (Luke 8:18). This is absolutely necessary because the natural mind sees only according to the flesh and the outward while the mind of Elohim is not like our own minds, his thoughts are not our thoughts:

Isaiah 55:6-11 KJV
6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

The first and greatest commandment begins with an admonishment to HEAR, (O Yisrael), and this is the Shema which is quoted more fully in the Gospel of Mark.

Mark 12:29-30 ASV
29 Jesus answered, The first is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one:
30 and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength.

If you do not hear, and this is spiritual in meaning, then even what you imagine yourself to have will be taken from you.

Luke 8:18 ASV
18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that which he thinketh he hath [Matthew 13:12-15].

I have the Testimony of the Master and other scripture passages in support of everything I have said: you are merely offering up your paradigm-based opinions.

Your assertion without Biblical demonstration regarding my response is assertion without merit.
Feel free to Biblically demonstrate my error