Escaping the Great Tribulation?

[Postvieww]

2 Thessalonians 1 (KJV)


1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;

4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,


What is the timing of this coming? Note Jesus is “revealed from heaven with his mighty angels”.


8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:


Note Christ’s action at this coming. Compare Rev 19:11-16, Matt 24:29-31,


9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


Note the result of this coming.


10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


Note Jesus is glorified in all his saints “in that day” or at this coming.


11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.


Chapter 1 sets the context for Chapter 2 . The Chapter 1 coming is clearly the second coming at the end of the tribulation. That is when Jesus is glorified in all His saints.

By what method of exegesis can the coming of Chapter 2 verse 1 be separated from the coming of chapter 1 verse 7?

They are the same coming, the one and only yet future coming of the Lord.

 

[Luke17:37]

2 Thessalonians 1 (KJV)


1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;

4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,


What is the timing of this coming? Note Jesus is “revealed from heaven with his mighty angels”.


8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:


Note Christ’s action at this coming. Compare Rev 19:11-16, Matt 24:29-31,


9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


Note the result of this coming.


10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


Note Jesus is glorified in all his saints “in that day” or at this coming.


11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.


Chapter 1 sets the context for Chapter 2 . The Chapter 1 coming is clearly the second coming at the end of the tribulation. That is when Jesus is glorified in all His saints.

By what method of exegesis can the coming of Chapter 2 verse 1 be separated from the coming of chapter 1 verse 7?

They are the same coming, the one and only yet future coming of the Lord.

Amen! There are clearly two things happening here on day of His coming - punishment to the wicked and rest/rejoicing for the believers (just like it also describes the seventh trumpet in Revelation 11:15-19).

 

[Straightshot]

"Other posters on this forum know how you desperately fit in a pre trib rapture into the Bible, where it is never stated that God's plan is to take living people to heaven."


Desperately? ...... nay .... easy to spot .... perfect fit

Right in front of your face and you cannot see .... blinded

Don't pass it up [Revelation 3:10]

 

[Riberra]

"Other posters on this forum know how you desperately fit in a pre trib rapture into the Bible, where it is never stated that God's plan is to take living people to heaven."


Desperately? ...... nay .... easy to spot .... perfect fit

Right in front of your face and you cannot see .... blinded

Don't pass it up [Revelation 3:10]

...Write this to the Church of Philadelphia....
Revelation 3:10
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

How the early Christians of the Philadelphia Church have avoided the Roman slaughtering of the Christians during the first century and beyond... -they have fled into the wilderness.-

Scholars believe Derinkuyu was the hiding place for the first Christians who were escaping from the persecution of the Roman empire.

The underground city at Derinkuyu could be closed from the inside with 1,000 pound stone doors which can only be opened and leveraged from the inside.

The complex has a total 13 stories which go deep into the ground, with ventilation shafts - small ventilation shafts that bring air to even the deepest levels. The large 55 m ventilation shaft appears to have been used as a well. The shaft also provided water to both the villagers above and, if the outside world was not accessible, to those in hiding.

Each floor could be closed off separately.

The city could accommodate between approximately 30,000 people and had all the usual amenities found in other underground complexes across Cappadocia, such as wine and oil presses, stables, cellars, storage rooms, refectories, and chapels. Between the third and fourth levels is a vertical staircase. This passage way leads to a cruciform church on the lowest level.

Unique to the Derinkuyu complex, and located on the second floor, is a spacious room with a barrel vaulted ceiling. It has been reported that this room was used as a religious school and the rooms to the left were studies.


First built in the soft volcanic rock of the Cappadocia region, possibly by the Phrygians in the 8th - 7th centuries B.C according to the Turkish Department of Culture, the underground city at Derinkuyu may have been enlarged in the Byzantine era. The city was connected with other underground cities through miles of tunnels.

To this day, no one is certain how it was created and what its original purpose was.

Let aside their theory about aliens and enjoy the images.
http://www.crystalinks.com/derinkuyu.html

In the Cappadocia region of Turkey there is a town called Derinkuyu; and beneath Derinkuyu there is a city, vast and deep, of ancient design, preserved to this day. The mystery of who built it and why remains, although scholars have their theories. The region of Cappadocia is well known around the world for its vast labyrinths of underground cities. Above ground, the region is equally impressive. The landscape is peppered with ancient volcanic stone chimneys, known as 'fairy chimneys.' Over the years, as civilizations and peoples have come and gone, the varying cultures carved intricate structures into and out of these chimneys making for very unique and impressive architecture.

 

[Straightshot]

1 Thessalonians
5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.


When you are overtaken by the day of the Lord, enter the tribulation period of the Lord's wrath and judgment, and face the lawless one RB, tell the forum what will happen to you

 

[Riberra]

1 Thessalonians
5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Revelation 16:14-16

4 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great DAY of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

 

[Straightshot]

I will ask you again RB

"When you are overtaken by the day of the Lord, enter the tribulation period of the Lord's wrath and judgment, and face the lawless one RB, tell the forum what will happen to you"

This was your answer

Revelation
16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.


A very strange answer indeed ..... explain yourself

I want to know what you will experience in the tribulation when you get there

And by the way the Lord's comment in Revelation 16:15 is a parenthetical and a warning to the reader to be "ready"

Ready for what RB?

 

[Riberra]

I will ask you again RB

"When you are overtaken by the day of the Lord, enter the tribulation period of the Lord's wrath and judgment, and face the lawless one RB, tell the forum what will happen to you"

The Day of the Lord is when Jesus will come as a thief .Will you have keep your garments( faith armor) when Jesus will come as a thief or will you have apostasies and taken the mark of the beast because your dream of a pre-trib rapture have never happened ?
Revelation 16:15
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame

 

[Straightshot]

You are avoiding my original question RB .... answer it

 

[Riberra]

You are avoiding my original question RB .... answer it

Nobody will be made immortal and rapture to Heaven before the tribulation.
We will all enter the Tribulation if we are still alive when it happen.

 

[Straightshot]

You are still avoiding my question .... and I know why .... so no need to continue this discussion

 

[Riberra]

You are still avoiding my question .... and I know why .... so no need to continue this discussion

You ask a question who will concerns all Christians that will be alive at the time because nobody alive will be rapture to Heaven before the tribulation.

I have the answer, but why bother...you believe that being saved (Salvation)means being rapture to Heaven before the tribulation.

You are on your way for hard wake up to reality /...dream...dream...dream 'floating in the air to Heaven before the Tribulation'

 

[Straightshot]

Anyone can see what you are doing RB, you are avoiding my initial question to you with off the wall answers .... the further you go, the deeper you dig the hole of your folly

 

[Riberra]

Anyone can see what you are doing RB, you are avoiding my initial question to you with off the wall answers .... the further you go, the deeper you dig the hole of your folly

And your initial question was ?

 

[Riberra]

I will ask you again RB

"When you are overtaken by the day of the Lord, enter the tribulation period of the Lord's wrath and judgment, and face the lawless one RB, tell the forum what will happen to you"

This was your answer

Revelation
16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.


A very strange answer indeed ..... explain yourself

I want to know what you will experience in the tribulation when you get there

And by the way the Lord's comment in Revelation 16:15 is a parenthetical and a warning to the reader to be "ready"

Ready for what RB?

For the Coming Of Jesus as a thief which is the Day of GOD Almighty.
Revelation 16:14-16

The GREAT TRIBULATION IS NOT the Day of Lord Almighty. You have been fooled and happy with that.

1-Those that will be gathered at Armageddon will be destroyed by Jesus.

2-The believers will be caught up to meet Jesus in the air and will not be appointed to the wrath of God during the Day of God Almighty.

 

[keras]

When you are overtaken by the day of the Lord, enter the tribulation period of the Lord's wrath and judgment, and face the lawless one RB, tell the forum what will happen to you"

This question from someone who believes they will be raptured to heaven before any kind of judgement, is rude and inappropriate in the extreme. It displays an unchristian mindset of: I'm ok because I hold to the rapture theory, but you who can't see it in the Bible, [because it isn't actually there] will have to face the GT.
The seriously wrong and unbiblical notion of going to live in heaven for any living human, has fooled many Christians and for anyone who has chosen to believe it, to put those who don't believe such a fanciful notion into the category of sinners who must endure God's wrath, are compounding their error and will themselves face a more severe judgement.

 

[Douggg]

This question from someone who believes they will be raptured to heaven before any kind of judgement, is rude and inappropriate in the extreme. It displays an unchristian mindset of: I'm ok because I hold to the rapture theory, but you who can't see it in the Bible, [because it isn't actually there] will have to face the GT.
The seriously wrong and unbiblical notion of going to live in heaven for any living human, has fooled many Christians and for anyone who has chosen to believe it, to put those who don't believe such a fanciful notion into the category of sinners who must endure God's wrath, are compounding their error and will themselves face a more severe judgement.

So I think what you are saying is that we are responsible for the results of what we believe? If so, I can agree with that premise.

 

[keras]

So I think what you are saying is that we are responsible for the results of what we believe? If so, I can agree with that premise.

No, God is a merciful God and may forgive those who have been taught wrong doctrines. They will, unfortunately, be unprepared for what is to come and some may lose their faith as a consequence.
It is those who teach false doctrines and theories who will be more severely judged. James 3:1 Straightshot's promotion of false teachings, that he is unable to prove as we are clearly told we will all experience trials and testing, Luke 21:34-36, 1 Peter 4:12, will result in his being very uncomfortable as he stands before Jesus at his judgement.

 

[Straightshot]

"Straightshot's promotion of false teachings"

Be specific dude

 

[Douggg]

No, God is a merciful God and may forgive those who have been taught wrong doctrines. They will, unfortunately, be unprepared for what is to come and some may lose their faith as a consequence.
It is those who teach false doctrines and theories who will be more severely judged. James 3:1 Straightshot's promotion of false teachings, that he is unable to prove as we are clearly told we will all experience trials and testing, Luke 21:34-36, 1 Peter 4:12, will result in his being very uncomfortable as he stands before Jesus at his judgement.

Okay you are looking at it from the no rapture, or as someone else would who has the post trib view, position.

But let's consider the opposite possibility. And that the rapture actually takes place before the great tribulation.

keras, if a person teaches against a rapture of people going to heaven, or that Christians have no choice but to go through the great tribulation should they be alive at time (the post trib view)_ - should that person who leads others astray (in this possibility), be counted as worthy to be taken in a rapture should it happen, or if it should take place before the great tribulation begins?

I think persons will receive according to what they believe. So if a person believes and actively denounces the possibility of a rapture - then that is likely what that person is going to experience, no rapture.

Or if a person believes and actively teaches other not to believe in a pre-great tribulation rapture - then that is likely what person is going to experience, not taken if the rapture take place pre-great tribulation.

.