eerily quiet

[Mark Quayle]

The courts, when they asked for evidence, were told that there wasn't any.

Rudy Giuliani, who served as a lawyer for President Donald Trump when the Trump campaign challenged the election results in Pennsylvania, told a federal judge at a Nov. 17, 2020 hearing in the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania that the campaign was not alleging fraud.
...
“Indeed,” said the court, “in oral argument before the District Court, Campaign lawyer Rudolph Giuliani conceded that the Campaign ‘doesn’t plead fraud,’” said the court. “He reiterated: ‘If we had alleged fraud, yes, but this is not a fraud case.’”

The appeals court opinion later repeated the fact that the Trump campaign did not allege fraud and there was “no clear evidence of massive absentee-ballot fraud or forgery.”

“Here, however, there is no clear evidence of massive absentee-ballot fraud or forgery,” said this opinion written by a Trump nominee. “On the contrary, at oral argument in the District Court, the Campaign specifically disavowed any claim of fraud. And the margin of victory here is not nearly as close: not 461 votes, but roughly 81,000.”

The opinion written by the Trump-appointed judge went on to conclude that the campaign could not win its lawsuit.

“As discussed, the Campaign cannot win this lawsuit,” said the opinion. “It conceded that it is not alleging election fraud. It has already raised and lost most of these state-law issues, and it cannot relitigate them here.”

The court went on to conclude: “There is no allegation of fraud (let alone proof) to justify harming those millions of voters as well as other candidates.”
https://cnsnews.com/blog/cnsnewscom...allenge-not-fraud-case-trump-pennsylvania-was

What, exactly could the court do, absent any evidence, or even any formal claim of fraud? It appears that this was all political theater for the faithful, with no hope of winning a lawsuit.

What were they alleging in this case? Why the lawsuit in this court?

 

[The Barbarian]

What were they alleging in this case? Why the lawsuit in this court?

That's what the judge asked them. Apparently, he never got a straight answer.

“Here, however, there is no clear evidence of massive absentee-ballot fraud or forgery,” said this opinion written by a Trump nominee. “On the contrary, at oral argument in the District Court, the Campaign specifically disavowed any claim of fraud. And the margin of victory here is not nearly as close: not 461 votes, but roughly 81,000.”

The opinion written by the Trump-appointed judge went on to conclude that the campaign could not win its lawsuit.

“As discussed, the Campaign cannot win this lawsuit,” said the opinion. “It conceded that it is not alleging election fraud. It has already raised and lost most of these state-law issues, and it cannot relitigate them here.”
https://cnsnews.com/blog/cnsnewscom...allenge-not-fraud-case-trump-pennsylvania-was

 

[Mark Quayle]

That's what the judge asked them. Apparently, he never got a straight answer.

“Here, however, there is no clear evidence of massive absentee-ballot fraud or forgery,” said this opinion written by a Trump nominee. “On the contrary, at oral argument in the District Court, the Campaign specifically disavowed any claim of fraud. And the margin of victory here is not nearly as close: not 461 votes, but roughly 81,000.”

The opinion written by the Trump-appointed judge went on to conclude that the campaign could not win its lawsuit.

“As discussed, the Campaign cannot win this lawsuit,” said the opinion. “It conceded that it is not alleging election fraud. It has already raised and lost most of these state-law issues, and it cannot relitigate them here.”
https://cnsnews.com/blog/cnsnewscom...allenge-not-fraud-case-trump-pennsylvania-was

Certainly they had to have something written as a reason for the lawsuit. You don't go to court to sue, without a definite accusation. The court won't hear you.

 

[The Barbarian]

Certainly they had to have something written as a reason for the lawsuit.

That was the judge's expectation.

You don't go to court to sue, without a definite accusation.

I would think so. But apparently not. At least the judge couldn't find anything.

The court won't hear you.

Apparently, he didn't. It seems it was all political theater, just for the Trump followers; they didn't actually expect to win anything.

 

[Mark Quayle]

That was the judge's expectation.



I would think so. But apparently not. At least the judge couldn't find anything.



Apparently, he didn't. It seems it was all political theater, just for the Trump followers; they didn't actually expect to win anything.

In other words, no hearing. It didn't actually become a thing.

Is the implication then, that it went this way with all of the courts?

 

[iarwain]

whether or not Pres. Biden is a liar, he's no where close to the magnitude of an amoral liar like Donald Trump.

Well, I don't know about that. Nor do I really care, since I consider Trump yesterday's news. But Biden has been a liar his entire political career. I could name some, but I suspect you're aware of them just as I am.

Just recently I heard him say his $3.5 trillion "infrastructure" plan would cost zero dollars. Now maybe that's not a lie, maybe that's just an extremely creative way of putting it. Like my supper cost zero dollars because I paid for it. But there was a recent lie the left and the race baiters were pushing about border agents whipping agents with whips. Of course it turned out there were no whips. There were long reins for the horses, but no one was whipped by them. That didn't stop them from banning the valiant border patrol agents from using horses though, because somehow protecting our border with horses evoked images of slavery. And Biden chimed in and said "They will pay", perpetuating the lie and attacking law enforcement instead of the criminals trying to illegally enter our country.

Whether Trump was immoral or not, at least he wasn't trying to flood our country with illegal aliens at the cost of and to replace present working American citizens. All without Covid tests or vaccines, just to show how much they actually care about that.

 

[miamited]

Well, I don't know about that. Nor do I really care, since I consider Trump yesterday's news. But Biden has been a liar his entire political career. I could name some, but I suspect you're aware of them just as I am.

Just recently I heard him say his $3.5 trillion "infrastructure" plan would cost zero dollars. Now maybe that's not a lie, maybe that's just an extremely creative way of putting it. Like my supper cost zero dollars because I paid for it. But there was a recent lie the left and the race baiters were pushing about border agents whipping agents with whips. Of course it turned out there were no whips. There were long reins for the horses, but no one was whipped by them. That didn't stop them from banning the valiant border patrol agents from using horses though, because somehow protecting our border with horses evoked images of slavery. And Biden chimed in and said "They will pay", perpetuating the lie and attacking law enforcement instead of the criminals trying to illegally enter our country.

Whether Trump was immoral or not, at least he wasn't trying to flood our country with illegal aliens at the cost of and to replace present working American citizens. All without Covid tests or vaccines, just to show how much they actually care about that.

Hi @iarwain

Well, it seems you have a fan who believes you, so go ahead with your campaign. BTW, I didn't say that Trump was 'immoral'. I said that he was 'amoral'. There's quite a difference.

God bless,
Ted

 

[The Barbarian]

In other words, no hearing. It didn't actually become a thing.

Is the implication then, that it went this way with all of the courts?

Actually, I believe there was at least one lawsuit, involving some technical issue, on which they prevailed. It didn't change the election results, however.

A day after a mob of President Donald Trump’s supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol, President-elect Joe Biden spoke about the importance of democratic institutions. He said that one of those pillars was the judiciary system.

Trump was "truly stunned when the judges he appointed didn't do his bidding and instead acted with integrity, following the Constitution, upholding the rule of law," Biden said.

"In more than 60 cases, in state after state after state, and then at the Supreme Court, judges, including people considered ‘his judges, Trump judges,’ to use his words, looked at the allegations that Trump was making and determined they were without any merit," Biden said Jan. 7, at an event where he introduced Judge Merrick Garland as his nominee for U.S. Attorney General.

Is that accurate? Yes. More than 60 lawsuits brought by Trump and his allies failed because they were unable to prove their allegations. Some lawsuits were dismissed due to errors in the filings and other procedural issues.
PolitiFact - Joe Biden is right that more than 60 of Trump’s election lawsuits lacked merit

 

[miamited]

What were they alleging in this case? Why the lawsuit in this court?

Hi @Mark Quayle

Yes, the answer seems to be that, after making the claim that there case wasn't alleging fraud, that they really couldn't give a straight answer as to what the case was actually about. So the judge threw it out. Certainly we don't need courts to remedy issues in which there is no alleging of a crime or some onerous weight upon a group of people. I mean, what's the judge to rule? "Ok everybody. Has anyone else got anything to say? No. Well good. I rule that this case is closed and let's all meet for lunch."

That, of course, was what most of the court challenges turned out to be. A lot of noise and fury without much evidence, if any at all, to win a decision. In the case of all the 'stacks of testimony' that the Trump team had, it's my understanding that the judge looked at what was in the pleadings and found that there was no substantive evidence to back up any of the testimonial claims. Just as Mike Lindell, for all of his 'fire and fury' about all the gigs of data that he had that would certainly propel Trump back into the presidency, when all was said and done, there seemed to have been a lot more said than done. I watched and kept track of his cyber security meeting and it was all a farce of claims without a single shred of evidence to support the claims being made. He didn't have any evidence that some foreign power had infiltrated our election processes. He didn't have any evidence to support that the Dominion voting machines were connected to the internet or that they housed some nefarious program that was switching votes. It was all just a pack of lies to buttress a position that they wanted everyone to believe. It was exactly the same with attorneys Linn and Powell. A lot of 'sound and fury' without a single shred of substantive evidence to back up any of the claims they were making. Just like the Arizona audit. Tons of time, money and manpower used to recount the actual ballots and study them all to the nth degree for signs of some kind of fraudulent coverup...and nothing! No evidence to support that the ballots had been shipped in from Asia already filled out. No evidence that any of the systems had been tampered with.

I'm not actually sure why they think we're going to believe that because they didn't get access to the routers, they weren't able to perform a valid recount verification. I mean, they had the actual paper ballots that every voter filled out. Whether a machine was tied to the internet or not, if you're counting the actual paper ballots, you will get the correct count. Now, if the paper ballot count had been waaaay off, then yes, you'd want to find out 'how' the miscount was achieved and that might have been from some internet connection or nefarious program built into the machines. But that's not the case. They actually counted the actual paper ballots by which every single vote was counted and the results were basically spot on, although Biden did win with a couple of hundred more votes than was initially given.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Tom 1]

Cyber Symposium expert delivers papers to Lindell’s attorneys claiming $5 million dollar reward

'Truth is truth': Trump dealt blow as Republican-led Arizona audit reaffirms Biden win

Hi everybody,

So, I was running around the 'googlesphere' and found that the lastest update on the Arizona fraudit, not that it's been completed, is a couple of days old. I also found that the latest update on the Lindell cyber symposium joke was over a week old. So I got to thinking, maybe we've topped the crest of all this noise about a stolen election, except of course from the former guy himself. I'm confident that he'll go to his grave telling Satan how an election was stolen from him. What do you guys think?

That hole has no bottom. Just wait until the warm-up for the next big election gets started, GOP types in govt are going to need to either be honest about how daft the whole business is, which is unlikely verging on impossible, or double down/backtrack on any previous criticism of Trump. There's no real effort involved - all that is required is to cast some meaningless shade on any of the ordinary things that happen whenever lots of people do something - and the path of least resistance is the best predictor of behaviour. That every element of it has been thoroughly debunked makes not one iota of difference to the core believers.

 

[The Barbarian]

I'm not actually sure why they think we're going to believe that because they didn't get access to the routers, they weren't able to perform a valid recount verification. I mean, they had the actual paper ballots that every voter filled out. Whether a machine was tied to the internet or not, if you're counting the actual paper ballots, you will get the correct count. Now, if the paper ballot count had been waaaay off, then yes, you'd want to find out 'how' the miscount was achieved and that might have been from some internet connection or nefarious program built into the machines. But that's not the case. They actually counted the actual paper ballots by which every single vote was counted and the results were basically spot on, although Biden did win with a couple of hundred more votes than was initially given.

All of that was merely to find something, anything, that might throw doubt on the outcome and maybe override the will of the people of Arizona. All that stuff about bamboo fibers and secret Trump watermarks and Italian satellites was just a desperate attempt to make something of nothing.

 

[The Barbarian]

That hole has no bottom. Just wait until the warm-up for the next big election gets started, GOP types in govt are going to need to either be honest about how daft the whole business is, which is unlikely verging on impossible, or double down/backtrack on any previous criticism of Trump. There's no real effort involved - all that is required is to cast some meaningless shade on any of the ordinary things that happen whenever lots of people do something - and the path of least resistance is the best predictor of behaviour. That every element of it has been thoroughly debunked makes not one iota of difference to the core believers.

Yes. Republicans may learn to their dismay that the door can swing both ways.

The real loser in these crooked games is our democracy and the people of America.

 

[Tom 1]

Yes. Republicans may learn to their dismay that the door can swing both ways.

The real loser in these crooked games is our democracy and the people of America.

I think it’ll all work out eventually. US politics seems to have taken on the very British quality of ‘muddling through’. Trumpers will ultimately end up muttering to each other in obscure corners of the internet while the world moves forward.

 

[miamited]

Hi all,

Well, if our straw vote is any indication, it looks like we're in for a bit more of this circus act that the Trump team is pushing. I know that Wisconsin, Texas, Pennsylvania and possibly Georgia are still trying to validate, or not, the counts in their states. Won't it be fun, when all of this is over, if Trump has to give up another few hundred votes to Biden.

Texas is apparently auditing the results in only four counties. All but one sided with Biden in the election. There are estimates that the Texas audit could run into the spring of 2022. Sheesh!

In Wisconsin, they've already set aside $700,000 to perform some kind of audit. The GOP legislature is seeking a three prong audit approach. So far, there doesn't seem to be any guesstimate as to when it will be completed. Although the Legislative Audit Bureau, which is a non-partisan group whose task it is to check all elections for accuracy, has said that their report should be out this fall.

In Pennsylvania the push seems to be to verify the actual validity of each individual voter's right to vote. In other words, did any unqualified people vote. In most all elections there are some cases of people not being qualified to vote who do get through the system and I'm sure that won't be any surprise in this effort. Felons are often the ones who vote, but because of the laws regarding a felon's right to vote, are deemed not able. We'll see how that turns out, but I seriously doubt that even if there are some few found, it won't make any difference to the outcome of the election overall. I'm pretty confident that we won't find that some state prison sent a batch of ballots from all their inmates with votes for Biden. I doubt they'll find that busloads of Canadians were bussed into Erie to vote for Biden.

Georgia is still up in the air about whether to proceed further with any investigative audit. So far SoS Brad Raffensperger has overseen several county's recounts and verified that all is good. The Trump team, of course, is not happy with that result and are pushing Georgia to hold a more formal 'forensic' audit as most of the other states, that are playing into this fiasco, claim to be doing.

At the end of the day, we'll see if there emerges any real evidence of concern. Although historically that hasn't stopped the Trump team from making all of their baseless and false accusations. Even now, with the Arizona audit pretty much done, as to the validity of the count, Trump is spouting more lies every day about how he still won Arizona. Nothing says success like a man's tenacity to stick to a story no matter the reality of what is.

God bless,
Ted

 

[The Barbarian]

exas is apparently auditing the results in only four counties. All but one sided with Biden in the election. There are estimates that the Texas audit could run into the spring of 2022. Sheesh!

You know, they don't expect to find anything. This is just a performance to keep the true believers on the plantation.

In Pennsylvania the push seems to be to verify the actual validity of each individual voter's right to vote. In other words, did any unqualified people vote. In most all elections there are some cases of people not being qualified to vote who do get through the system and I'm sure that won't be any surprise in this effort. Felons are often the ones who vote, but because of the laws regarding a felon's right to vote, are deemed not able. We'll see how that turns out, but I seriously doubt that even if there are some few found, it won't make any difference to the outcome of the election overall. I'm pretty confident that we won't find that some state prison sent a batch of ballots from all their inmates with votes for Biden. I doubt they'll find that busloads of Canadians were bussed into Erie to vote for Biden.

In the postmortem of 2016, there were few cases of such voters, but most of them voted for Trump. Notice that republicans have stopped whining about dead people voting? There's a very good reason for that.

At the end of the day, we'll see if there emerges any real evidence of concern. Although historically that hasn't stopped the Trump team from making all of their baseless and false accusations. Even now, with the Arizona audit pretty much done, as to the validity of the count, Trump is spouting more lies every day about how he still won Arizona. Nothing says success like a man's tenacity to stick to a story no matter the reality of what is.

Remember "Bill Clinton's attack dog", James Carville? He had the right idea. When they try something dishonest, shine the light on it, and then beat them over the head with it again and again, until they wish they had never thought of it.

An old and obvious strategy, but a very effective one.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I think it’ll all work out eventually. US politics seems to have taken on the very British quality of ‘muddling through’. Trumpers will ultimately end up muttering to each other in obscure corners of the internet while the world moves forward.

Lol, "moves on" doesn't necessarily translate "moves forward". 'Progressives' are progressing only in their own mind.

 

[The Barbarian]

Trumpers will ultimately end up muttering to each other in obscure corners of the internet while the world moves forward.

That's the big thing. They've moved from being scary to being ludicrous.

 

[Tom 1]

Lol, "moves on" doesn't necessarily translate "moves forward". 'Progressives' are progressing only in their own mind.

I don’t get what you mean. In what ways isn’t the world moving forward?

 

[Yarddog]

Cyber Symposium expert delivers papers to Lindell’s attorneys claiming $5 million dollar reward

'Truth is truth': Trump dealt blow as Republican-led Arizona audit reaffirms Biden win

Hi everybody,

So, I was running around the 'googlesphere' and found that the lastest update on the Arizona fraudit, not that it's been completed, is a couple of days old. I also found that the latest update on the Lindell cyber symposium joke was over a week old. So I got to thinking, maybe we've topped the crest of all this noise about a stolen election, except of course from the former guy himself. I'm confident that he'll go to his grave telling Satan how an election was stolen from him. What do you guys think?

Republicans have to keep it out there for the next election cycle.

 

[Bobber]

So those of us who believe this election was the most corrupt ever in this country, and see us descending into a banana republic or worse, are stifled and tired. You guys may win, in the end, but you do so at the cost of my patriotism.

TRUTH will win out in the end. Untruth never will. Not much of a movie watcher but always liked the line from Gladiator where he pondered if RIGHT, and JUSTICE would ever find it's day.

“My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true Emperor Marcus Aurelius, father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife – and I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.” – Maximus

I'm not saying we want vengeance as a theme to promote such NEVER would I hold to that, any vengeance is for God alone but if not in this life where TRUTH is made clear it certainly will be in the NEXT. The injustice of whatever will then be labelled for what it was.

The courts never even looked at the evidence. But believe what you want. I'm tired and heart-broken.

And assuming a great many things have taken place that were unjust....your country the United States has had a great run on being more or less on what you've perceived it to be. Your hope ultimately is to be set in another Kingdom to come the Kingdom of God. As for the temporary earthly kingdom well back to Gladiator, Marcu Aurelius, "There was once a dream that was Rome. You could only whisper it. Anything more than a whisper and it'd vanish!" The Untied States has been like that I think a dream. An idea. Would it always live up to the dream? Perhaps not but its always a standard one should keep in their hearts never to let it go. I wouldn't totally give up on your patriotism.