Hand count in audit affirms Biden beat Trump, as Maricopa County said in November

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DaisyDay

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I can't say what will happen, the federal government is trying to take over the election process, but I think a lot more people are becoming aware of government dishonesty and corruption.
The federal government considers the integrity of elections a matter of national security, especially after the hacking the Russians did in 2016(no votes were changed, but state servers were broken into, perhaps as a test run). One of our best protections against foreign interference is that each county runs its own to the point where they can be vastly different from one another. Local governments can and often are considerable more corrupt than the federal one.

The "archiving for more room" story is baloney, they left data out there from old elections but deleted the file from the recent election.
The audit was not supposed to interfere with the day to day operations of the Board of Elections which includes cleaning up the databases in preparation for the next election cycle. The voting details contain millions of records, at least one for each vote cast and counted. Once the normal audits have been completed and the results certified, there is no reason to keep the details on the main server once they have been safely archived. The old files that remain are probably summary records that may need to be referenced by the board and for FOI requests. I'm pretty sure that they will also need the summaries to cross reference with the last census data for the 10 year redistricting initiative.

The law says the data needs to be kept for a certain length of time, but it does not say that it has to be kept on the workaday database; the archives are the perfect place to keep them. Furthermore, the database server is not a single piece but an array. It was mentioned in news reports that the Ninjas didn't realize that it was a RAID - which is odd because that is standard these days.

One good thing about this Big Lie is that no one is still arguing in favor of internet voting.
 
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Foamhead

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This is why you don't engage with conspiracy theorists and election denialists. Conspiracy theorists will never abandon a conspiracy no matter what the evidence against it is, they just move the goal posts as you see in this thread. Election deniers know full well trump lost, they just can't emotionally come to grips with it. They aren't honest actors and will always invent some new "suspicious thing" or "irregularity" to attack the legitimacy of Biden's win. The only difference is the denialist knows deep down Trump lost fair and square, they just refuse to admit it.

Talking to them and engaging this subject only gives oxygen to the nonsense.
 
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Valletta

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The federal government considers the integrity of elections a matter of national security, especially after the hacking the Russians did in 2016(no votes were changed, but state servers were broken into, perhaps as a test run). One of our best protections against foreign interference is that each county runs its own to the point where they can be vastly different from one another. Local governments can and often are considerable more corrupt than the federal one.


The audit was not supposed to interfere with the day to day operations of the Board of Elections which includes cleaning up the databases in preparation for the next election cycle. The voting details contain millions of records, at least one for each vote cast and counted. Once the normal audits have been completed and the results certified, there is no reason to keep the details on the main server once they have been safely archived. The old files that remain are probably summary records that may need to be referenced by the board and for FOI requests. I'm pretty sure that they will also need the summaries to cross reference with the last census data for the 10 year redistricting initiative.

The law says the data needs to be kept for a certain length of time, but it does not say that it has to be kept on the workaday database; the archives are the perfect place to keep them. Furthermore, the database server is not a single piece but an array. It was mentioned in news reports that the Ninjas didn't realize that it was a RAID - which is odd because that is standard these days.

That's a false narrative. There was tons of publicity so there is no question they knew this audit was to take place. Yet they removed the file, while leaving data from old elections still there! When they were questioned, and it was broadcast on CSPAN, they failed to provide an explanation as to why the older election data was there but the data from the most recent audit was removed. It's too bad you were not there to provide this explanation, because the officials in charge had none. You would think that the officials in charge, who kept insisting how high quality the process was, would know more than you.
At this point, it is good for all Americans to realize what is going on. If there is nothing to hide, if there are no problems at all to fix, then those saying such should be eager to let the data be examined with no obstruction. Likewise, now that the weaknesses have been exposed, and President Jimmy Carter's election commission made this clear, a major weakness that makes cheating easier is the ballots cast outside of certified in-person election locations. The other weaknesses identified are in voter identification and chain of custody. Those who want to make cheating easy will oppose voter ID and in person voting and examination of the process, whether by observers or audits. They will not only push mail in ballots, they will send ballots out without people requesting them. Those who wish election integrity will do the opposite. As the next election approaches judge these people by their actions.
 
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DaisyDay

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That's a false narrative.
No, it is accurate.

There was tons of publicity so there is no question they knew this audit was to take place.
I never claimed otherwise; what I did say was that their normal routines were maintained. They did not just stop doing their jobs so this politically motivated, amateur audit could interfer with their duties. The regular audits were performed, the votes were certified and the database was archived in preparation for the next election cycle - there are local elections, too, not just the federal ones.

Yet they removed the file, while leaving data from old elections still there!
Yes! Of course it was! The data from the old elections were undoubtedly summary files, while the detail records of each vote, including canceled and replaced votes, which totaled in the millions, were archived off the server. This is a normal process. The summary records from each election are maintained for use while the details are archived. Archived, not destroyed. The details are still accessible, but not clogging up the database needed for everyday use.

When they were questioned by state legislators, and it was broadcast on CSPAN, they failed to provide an explanation as to why the older election data was there but the data from the most recent audit was removed.
Citation needed. I do know that the audit ninjas originally claimed that the data had been purged completely. They had to walk back that claim pretty quickly as it exposed their gross ignorance.

It's too bad you were not there to provide this explanation, because the officials in charge had none. You would think that the officials in charge, who kept insisting how high quality the process was, would know more than you.
I don't believe that they did not know how the process works.

At this point, it is good for all Americans to realize what is going on. If there is nothing to hide, if there are no problems at all to fix, then those saying such should be eager to let the data be examined with no obstruction.
The data were examined, over and over and over again - much to the interference of the BOE's normal workflow.

Likewise, now that the weaknesses have been exposed, and President Jimmy Carter's election commission made this clear, a major weakness that makes cheating easier is the ballots cast outside of certified in-person election locations.
And yet, no credible evidence of this cheating was found! You understand, I hope, that much of the process has been tightened up in the nearly 40 years since Carter was president - even since Obama was president.

Back in November, we had Trump team folks claiming loudly that the voting machines switched the votes and that Dominion was in cahoots with Smartmatic? Somehow Hugo Chavez was supposed to be implicated even though he's been dead for nearly a decade. Since the people (Lin Wood and Sidney Powell) have been sued and since the hand count matched the machine count very closely, suddenly that has been forgotten.

The other weaknesses identified are in voter identification and chain of custody. Those who want to make cheating easy will oppose voter ID and in person voting and examination of the process, whether by observers or audits.
No, those who want to make cheating easy are going for gerrymandered redistricting and voter suppression.

They will not only push mail in ballots, they will send ballots out without people requesting them.
At least one state has had mail-in voting as the norm for years now. Yes, they do automatically send REGISTERED voters their ballots because they don't have in-person voting.


Those who wish election integrity will do the opposite. As the next election approaches judge these people by their actions.
And thus the Big Lie continues unabated.
 
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Valletta

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The data were examined, over and over and over again - much to the interference of the BOE's normal workflow.

We're discussing the Arizona audit, and the fact that roughly 50,000 irregularities were found by the audit, missed by the "normal" audit process. Yet you accuse the finders of the irregularities of "gross ignorance." People care about the integrity of their votes, and that means identifying weaknesses in the process and fixing the problems. The results of this audit should be a wake-up call to all Americans, for all of you who care about our country, please insist that an audit be conducted in your state and that any problems found be fixed. Insist that felons not be allowed to vote, and speak out when judges try to expunge the records of felons so they can vote. Insist that only citizens be allowed to vote, and that those who vote more than once or illegally vote in any way be held accountable. Don't be bullied by those on the hard left. Consider being an election observer. If federal authorities or anyone else try to interfere in the elections, blocking you from observing or anything else, stand your ground and see that they are arrested and prosecuted.
 
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VirOptimus

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We're discussing the Arizona audit, and the fact that roughly 50,000 irregularities were found by the audit, missed by the "normal" audit process. Yet you accuse the finders of the irregularities of "gross ignorance." People care about the integrity of their votes, and that means identifying weaknesses in the process and fixing the problems. The results of this audit should be a wake-up call to all Americans, for all of you who care about our country, please insist that an audit be conducted in your state and that any problems found be fixed. Insist that felons not be allowed to vote, and speak out when judges try to expunge the records of felons so they can vote. Insist that only citizens be allowed to vote, and that those who vote more than once or illegally vote in any way be held accountable. Don't be bullied by those on the hard left. Consider being an election observer. If federal authorities or anyone else try to interfere in the elections, blocking you from observing or anything else, stand your ground and see that they are arrested and prosecuted.

I think you should follow Trumps call to not vote until all of this is fixed.
 
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Bradskii

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We're discussing the Arizona audit, and the fact that roughly 50,000 irregularities were found by the audit, missed by the "normal" audit process. Yet you accuse the finders of the irregularities of "gross ignorance." People care about the integrity of their votes, and that means identifying weaknesses in the process and fixing the problems. The results of this audit should be a wake-up call to all Americans, for all of you who care about our country, please insist that an audit be conducted in your state and that any problems found be fixed. Insist that felons not be allowed to vote, and speak out when judges try to expunge the records of felons so they can vote. Insist that only citizens be allowed to vote, and that those who vote more than once or illegally vote in any way be held accountable. Don't be bullied by those on the hard left. Consider being an election observer. If federal authorities or anyone else try to interfere in the elections, blocking you from observing or anything else, stand your ground and see that they are arrested and prosecuted.

I detect a subtle change in a few posts. They started with 'the election was fixed'. But there was no evidence, so we moved to 'we demand an audit'. Which found nothing to change the result. So now we move to 'But hey, we need to make sure the integrity of the process is upheld'. Which it was last time.

It's like the stages of grief. You can see it happening as the weeks go by.

Maybe 'He lost - get over it' should be changed to 'He lost - nice that you're getting over it'. Maybe the grieving period is drawing to a close. Now if we can get the corpse to accept that he's dead we can all move on.
 
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Valletta

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I detect a subtle change in a few posts. They started with 'the election was fixed'. But there was no evidence, so we moved to 'we demand an audit'. Which found nothing to change the result. So now we move to 'But hey, we need to make sure the integrity of the process is upheld'. Which it was last time.

It's like the stages of grief. You can see it happening as the weeks go by.

Maybe 'He lost - get over it' should be changed to 'He lost - nice that you're getting over it'. Maybe the grieving period is drawing to a close. Now if we can get the corpse to accept that he's dead we can all move on.
Who knows who you think this collective "we" is. As I've said so many times, the audit is for future elections. You seem obsessed with some conspiracy to change the election results. Vote integrity is key to the future of our Republic. I've advocated for transparency and accountability in government and have fought against government corruption for decades. I just wish people would wake up, so many make light until it personally affects them. Laws should apply equally to everyone.
 
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VirOptimus

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Who knows who you think this collective "we" is. As I've said so many times, the audit is for future elections. You seem obsessed with some conspiracy to change the election results. Vote integrity is key to the future of our Republic. I've advocated for transparency and accountability in government and have fought against government corruption for decades. I just wish people would wake up, so many make light until it personally affects them. Laws should apply equally to everyone.

Was Biden elected fair and square?
 
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Bradskii

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Who knows who you think this collective "we" is. As I've said so many times, the audit is for future elections. You seem obsessed with some conspiracy to change the election results. Vote integrity is key to the future of our Republic. I've advocated for transparency and accountability in government and have fought against government corruption for decades. I just wish people would wake up, so many make light until it personally affects them. Laws should apply equally to everyone.

That almost reads as satire.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Who knows who you think this collective "we" is. As I've said so many times, the audit is for future elections. You seem obsessed with some conspiracy to change the election results. Vote integrity is key to the future of our Republic. I've advocated for transparency and accountability in government and have fought against government corruption for decades. I just wish people would wake up, so many make light until it personally affects them. Laws should apply equally to everyone.
The "audit" was a waste of time, money, and other resources. It simply proved that there were no problems with the election at all. The only reason elections were challenged was that Trump lost the election and he and his supporters don't want to accept that fact.

If this was done for "future elections" then it confirms that future elections will be fine also; but we know the real reason it was done, which is out of a petulant response by the Trump team to losing the election fair and square.
 
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Tom 1

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Who knows who you think this collective "we" is. As I've said so many times, the audit is for future elections. You seem obsessed with some conspiracy to change the election results. Vote integrity is key to the future of our Republic. I've advocated for transparency and accountability in government and have fought against government corruption for decades. I just wish people would wake up, so many make light until it personally affects them. Laws should apply equally to everyone.

The 2020 election was exceptionally well managed, due to the real people doing real jobs, those people who you continually disparage and ignore. The farcical audit and all the rest of the nonsense was nothing more than a smokescreen to try and subvert a fair election. It has nothing whatsoever to do with election security.
 
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Valletta

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This is why you don't engage with conspiracy theorists and election denialists. Conspiracy theorists will never abandon a conspiracy no matter what the evidence against it is, they just move the goal posts as you see in this thread. Election deniers know full well trump lost, they just can't emotionally come to grips with it. They aren't honest actors and will always invent some new "suspicious thing" or "irregularity" to attack the legitimacy of Biden's win. The only difference is the denialist knows deep down Trump lost fair and square, they just refuse to admit it.

Talking to them and engaging this subject only gives oxygen to the nonsense.
Look, a lot of people fell for the Russia Russia Russia conspiracy theory. And a lot for the white supremacist conspiracy that was supposed to take over the government. Remember Biden was going to eliminate this great threat in the military? Last count I heard the number was still a single digit -- that's in the entire U.S. military. Many people were completely hoodwinked. That doesn't mean you should not converse with them.
 
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essentialsaltes

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You seem obsessed with some conspiracy to change the election results.

The Stop the Steal people who stormed the Capitol were more obsessed.
 
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DaisyDay

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We're discussing the Arizona audit, and the fact that roughly 50,000 irregularities were found by the audit, missed by the "normal" audit process.
And did any of these so-called irregularities affect the outcome in any way? No, they did not.

Yet you accuse the finders of the irregularities of "gross ignorance."
Yes, the Ninjas demonstrated that quite satisfactorily.

People care about the integrity of their votes, and that means identifying weaknesses in the process and fixing the problems.
Yes, but telling lies and sowing unwarranted seeds of doubt do nothing to further this integrity and everything to undermining our democracy. It is both shameful and dangerous.

The results of this audit should be a wake-up call to all Americans, for all of you who care about our country, please insist that an audit be conducted in your state and that any problems found be fixed.
Yeah, let's spend millions of dollars to ferret out minor irregularities - no, thanks. Regular, professional audits are fine.

[quote Insist that felons not be allowed to vote, and speak out when judges try to expunge the records of felons so they can vote. [/quote]Why? If a person has paid their debt to society, he should be allowed to participate in a basic right.

Insist that only citizens be allowed to vote, and that those who vote more than once or illegally vote in any way be held accountable.
Meh, that's already being done. What we need is an end the lies and innuendoes that undermine confidence it our system to the benefit of the demagogues.

Don't be bullied by those on the hard left.
:rolleyes: Or by those on the alt right. Or by anyone, for that matter, no matter what their political persuasion may be.

Consider being an election observer. If federal authorities or anyone else try to interfere in the elections, blocking you from observing or anything else, stand your ground and see that they are arrested and prosecuted.
And if you do become an observer, learn the rules ahead of time instead of making a fool of yourself for crowding the election workers and interfering in their work.
 
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wing2000

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Yes, the Ninjas demonstrated that quite satisfactorily.

They can't even count ballots....

The hand count in Maricopa County was off by hundreds of thousands of ballots, according to a review of newly released Arizona audit records.

Election analysts say Cyber Ninjas' count was off by about 312,000 and it also double counted almost 23,000 ballots in its months-long review of 2020 election results.

...Cyber Ninjas didn't tally as many as 167,000 Maricopa County ballots, according to analysts who reviewed the report for The Republic.

The hand-count numbers in the report reflect a 15% error rate when compared with a separate machine count of ballots authorized by the Arizona Senate, they said.


"This is proof that the Cyber Ninjas' vote count wasn't real," said Larry Moore, co-founder of the Boston-based Clear Ballot Group. "It means they lost control of their ballots."

https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...ber-ninjas-ballot-count-off-312-k/6094144001/
 
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DaisyDay

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Look, a lot of people fell for the Russia Russia Russia conspiracy theory.
There was evidence for that. Russia was found to have interfered in the 2016 election in Donald's favor. Members of his campaign did meet with Russian operatives - many lied about it. Donald Jr. and Mr. Ivanka did meet secretly with Russians hoping, by Jr.'s own words, to get dirt from them on the Democratic candidate. Donald Sr. personally drafted a letter lying about that meeting to cover up for his boys. Gen. Flynn did work as a lobbyist for a foreign government without registering - he also lied to Pence about his meeting with the Russian ambassador to persuade the Russian government not to react to sanctions imposed for invading the Crimea, to wait until his boss got inaugurated (he was fired as Donald's National Security advisor and prosecuted for this and for lying to the FBI about it). Mr. Ivanka proposed setting up a secret, backdoor communication channel with the Russians and the campaign. Donald made himself look guilty as heck by obstructing the investigations into the matter - on at least 10 counts.

And a lot for the white supremacist conspiracy that was supposed to take over the government.
You know that Stephen Miller directed policy throughout Donald's administration. Early on, Steve Bannon and others were running things. Donald installed many of his cronies in civil service positions to continue his wretched influence.

Remember Biden was going to eliminate this great threat in the military?
No, I don't remember - perhaps you have reliable source?

Last count I heard the number was still a single digit -- that's in the entire U.S. military.
And where did you hear this? Do you believe that the number of white supremacists in the entire military is less than 10 people?

Many people were completely hoodwinked. That doesn't mean you should not converse with them.
I am conversing with you now...
 
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Valletta

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There was evidence for that. Russia was found to have interfered in the 2016 election in Donald's favor. Members of his campaign did meet with Russian operatives - many lied about it. Donald Jr. and Mr. Ivanka did meet secretly with Russians hoping, by Jr.'s own words, to get dirt from them on the Democratic candidate. Donald Sr. personally drafted a letter lying about that meeting to cover up for his boys. Gen. Flynn did work as a lobbyist for a foreign government without registering - he also lied to Pence about his meeting with the Russian ambassador to persuade the Russian government not to react to sanctions imposed for invading the Crimea, to wait until his boss got inaugurated (he was fired as Donald's National Security advisor and prosecuted for this and for lying to the FBI about it). Mr. Ivanka proposed setting up a secret, backdoor communication channel with the Russians and the campaign. Donald made himself look guilty as heck by obstructing the investigations into the matter - on at least 10 counts.

You know that Stephen Miller directed policy throughout Donald's administration. Early on, Steve Bannon and others were running things. Donald installed many of his cronies in civil service positions to continue his wretched influence.

No, I don't remember - perhaps you have reliable source?

And where did you hear this? Do you believe that the number of white supremacists in the entire military is less than 10 people?

I am conversing with you now...
Cmon, do you also believe the new tax bill, trillions of dollars, will cost America zero? Look, it was fake news, Michael Sussmann, who is a former representative Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign, lied about the Russians supposedly colluding with the Trump campaign and Sussmann has been indicted. The fake news was supported by anonymous sources and the media claimed those sources had been verified when they had NOT been verified. They lied to you, this is what I don't understand the most, once an individual or organization has lied to you why continue to them credibility? I understand mistakes, but they do so repeatedly.
As to white supremacists no, there could be dozens of potentially violent supremacists in the military, I bet they missed some, but my point is white supremacists and moms speaking up at school boards are not the major violent threat to our country. The terrorists, cartel members and other violent criminals that Joe is welcoming in are, along with radical leftist groups and plain old emboldened criminals, by far the biggest threats to our country. Who is committing the vast majority of crimes, white supremacists? Look at the videos for yourself, try turning off the commentary.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Cmon, do you also believe the new tax bill, trillions of dollars, will cost America zero?
Do you honestly believe that anyone, anywhere, ever claims or believes that "the new tax bill, trillions of dollars, will cost America zero"???

Where do you come up with these fantastic fables? Quite an imagination.
 
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I think Trump will eventually admit that he lost the election legitimately, just like he eventually admitted that Obama's birth certificate was real. By that point, though, it will be too late for most of the kool-aid drinkers to change their minds and believe him.
 
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