During 'cease fire' Russia bombs maternity hospital

[disciple Clint]

The ones allowing this are just following God’s example. They have the power to stop it but choose not to.

That is a poor excuse and faulty reasoning as well.

 

[FireDragon76]

Speaking of which, the U.S. is warning that Russia has claimed or suggested Ukraine may use chemical weapons, and that this might mean that in reality Russia is thinking or planning to do so (so they are preparing by spinning up a false narrative to cover themselves).

It's a false flag.

Russian strategic doctrine often calls for that sort of thing. It's called maskirovka (camouflage)

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

That is a poor excuse and faulty reasoning as well.

How so? If God has the power to stop the war, the war has not stopped, then God has chosen not to stop the war. This is my point. Where is the reasoning unsound?

 

[disciple Clint]

How so? If God has the power to stop the war, the war has not stopped, then God has chosen not to stop the war. This is my point. Where is the reasoning unsound?

God has always approved of a just war and assisted those who are willing to fight.

 

[RDKirk]

By the peace force.

‘How smart is that?’ And he’s going to go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s the strongest peace force,” Trump added. “We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. … Here’s a guy who’s very savvy. … I know him very well. Very, very well.”

And that is what he would be saying if he were president right now.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

God has always approved of a just war and assisted those who are willing to fight.

Would you stop the Ukraine war right now if you could?

 

[disciple Clint]

Would you stop the Ukraine war right now if you could?

I know where you are trying to go. It is not up to me to judge or question God, read the book of Job

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I know where you are trying to go. It is not up to me to judge or question God, read the book of Job

I have read Job plenty of times. And I believe you would stop the war if you could. I don't think God would be angry with you if you asked some sincere questions.

 

[FireDragon76]

I know where you are trying to go. It is not up to me to judge or question God, read the book of Job

That's not the usual reading of the book of Job I'm familiar with. If that's your interpretation of it, I'm afraid you have very limited reading comprehension and it says alot about your personality (drawn towards authoritarianism rather than a deep consideration of a topic).

 

[stevil]

And that is what he would be saying if he were president right now.

He was president for 4 years, he had access to all of USA's intelligence agencies, all of USA's intel, he had access to the top generals, the top strategists.
There really is no excuse for him being so stupendously naive.

The problem with Trump, is that he doesn't understand things, when people talk to him about stuff, he doesn't understand it. And he tries to cover up by saying really vague things. All his playbacks to the media are super vague, lacking any detail whatsoever, and often showing he has no understanding of international affairs, no understanding of USA military.

But then it gets dangerous when his ego and his tenancy to be contrarian comes into play. He likes to think of himself as smarter than everyone else. So he becomes unteachable, he wont listen to experts, he wants to come up with something different.
He really is unsuitable as a leader of a country.

 

[Halbhh]

How so? If God has the power to stop the war, the war has not stopped, then God has chosen not to stop the war. This is my point. Where is the reasoning unsound?

He will stop all wars forever, when the time comes. But here in this current world we are in a temporary life where we are here in order to make a choice.

We are here to choose whether to turn from evil to good, or not. Some have already chosen quite well long ago, even before birth for some, but...not all of us. Many might chose in 20 or 30 years, but very many may not really choose for 50 or even 65 years until they finally do.

You are here in a mortal body in order to allow you to make your own choice.

 

[Halbhh]

I'm convinced there is literally nothing Trump could say or do that would detract his supporters.
They are happy for him to support Putin, White supremacists, criminals that steal from his supporters.
They are happy for him to extort allies, to lead an insurrection, to pay off women he has cheated on his wife with, to evade taxes, to run scams like Trump University, to doctor weather maps....

Well, for many I'd guess not 'happy' about those clear wrongs so much as doing instead the classic 'turning a blind eye'.

 

[disciple Clint]

I have read Job plenty of times. And I believe you would stop the war if you could. I don't think God would be angry with you if you asked some sincere questions.

Good since you have read Job, you know that the point you are trying to make is invalid, who are we to question what God does or does not do.

 

[disciple Clint]

That's not the usual reading of the book of Job I'm familiar with. If that's your interpretation of it, I'm afraid you have very limited reading comprehension and it says alot about your personality (drawn towards authoritarianism rather than a deep consideration of a topic).

A reader who actually has good reading comprehension knows that there are several themes and lessons in the Book of Job, how did you miss that and what does it supposedly say about you?

 

[RDKirk]

I can't determine from what I've seen so far whether it was fully intended to bomb a hospital occupied by nothing but noncombatants.

I would point out that if there were combatants in the hospital, it was no longer under the protection of the Geneva Conventions Law of Armed Conflict. When one side posts combatants in such places (schools, hospitals, churches, et cetera) that makes them lawful targets for the other side. The war crime lies in placing your armed forces in such places.

I'd also point out that the "fog of war" will make mistakes likely in any war: Maybe they mis-identified the building. Maybe they honestly believed they were taking fire from that building.

It happens to the US. There were infamous incidents in the Persian Gulf War and the Afghanistan War, both of which were unintentional in that the intelligence on the buildings was incomplete or erroneous.

 

[Halbhh]

That's not the usual reading of the book of Job I'm familiar with. If that's your interpretation of it, I'm afraid you have ...++++....(drawn towards authoritarianism rather than a deep consideration of a topic).

Not good to fall into ad hominem. Best to remove that stuff. Instead of making it personal and ascribing attributes to someone you barely know, ask questions.

 

[Halbhh]

I can't determine from what I've seen so far whether it was fully intended to bomb a hospital occupied by nothing but noncombatants.

I would point out that if there were combatants in the hospital, it was no longer under the protection of the Geneva Conventions Law of Armed Conflict. When one side posts combatants in such places (schools, hospitals, churches, et cetera) that makes them lawful targets for the other side. The war crime lies in placing your armed forces in such places.

I'd also point out that the "fog of war" will make mistakes likely in any war: Maybe they mis-identified the building. Maybe they honestly believed they were taking fire from that building.

It happens to the US. There were infamous incidents in the Persian Gulf War and the Afghanistan War, both of which were unintentional in that the intelligence on the buildings was incomplete or erroneous.

Yes, Russia claims (and we know better than to just simply trust them) that the hospital had no patients (looking pretty clearly a false claim), and that it was being used by military. Which sounds like propaganda and is, but...also, they might have actually believed that. Fog of war is pretty normal. The U.S. has more than a few times sent a missile or bomb onto what turns out an innocent party.

But, the attack does represent a very real thing: Russia is routinely attacking civilian areas using indiscriminate shelling.

And that's the big picture: Russia isn't concerned about killing civilians at all, and isn't trying to avoid killing civilians.

And maybe -- though I don't know yet for sure with strong proof -- might even be doing worse, intentionally targeting them. It needs investigation of course:

That possibility:
Russian Pilot of Downed Jet: 'We Realized the Targets Were Civilian'
The pilot of a Russian jet downed shortly after carrying out airstrikes in Ukraine has said that during one mission he "realized that the target was not a enemy military objects, but civilian homes and peaceful people."
Ukraine War News Live: Convoy makes momentum toward Kyiv, Pentagon says

So, if that is the case, hopefully it will be proven and then Putin can be indicted by the ICC or similar such (regardless of whether they are a party, imo).

Maybe it's already though enough of a crime just shelling civilian areas? I think that should count as a definite crime, imo.

 

[disciple Clint]

I can't determine from what I've seen so far whether it was fully intended to bomb a hospital occupied by nothing but noncombatants.

I would point out that if there were combatants in the hospital, it was no longer under the protection of the Geneva Conventions Law of Armed Conflict. When one side posts combatants in such places (schools, hospitals, churches, et cetera) that makes them lawful targets for the other side. The war crime lies in placing your armed forces in such places.

I'd also point out that the "fog of war" will make mistakes likely in any war: Maybe they mis-identified the building. Maybe they honestly believed they were taking fire from that building.

It happens to the US. There were infamous incidents in the Persian Gulf War and the Afghanistan War, both of which were unintentional in that the intelligence on the buildings was incomplete or erroneous.

I might be tempted to cut them some slack but this seems to be a pattern of behavior with Russian forces.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

He will stop all wars forever, when the time comes. But here in this current world we are in a temporary life where we are here in order to make a choice.

Would you stop the war in Ukraine today if you could?

We are here to choose whether to turn from evil to good, or not. Some have already chosen quite well long ago, even before birth for some, but...not all of us. Many might chose in 20 or 30 years, but very many may not really choose for 50 or even 65 years until they finally do.

You are here in a mortal body in order to allow you to make your own choice.

I choose good. So do I now have eternal life? Seems like God is playing squid games with us.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Good since you have read Job, you know that the point you are trying to make is invalid, who are we to question what God does or does not do.

Who are we indeed. We are humans that do good and bad things that have sincere questions. If God is too full of himself to bother to actually answer our questions then He is not good. Parents that tell their kids to shut up and do as I say are not good parents. Good parents listen to their kids questions and answer them as best they can.