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Drop your theological errors off here...

OrthodoxyUSA

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Right, keep telling yourself that.

I search the Scriptures, nowhere in them is Mary even once elevated or venerated as the Catholic Church elevates and venerates her.

Let's not confuse RC with Orthodox.... can be very different when it comes to Mary.

Forgive me...
 
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Goatee

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Did He command them, at a certain time and place, when He did dwell in "temples made with human hands", yes.

He no longer does, however. Each of us is now the "temple of the Holy Spirit", and we worship in spirit and in truth.

Icons are idols, we have no reason to use such things in worship. If so, why did Jesus and the Scripture writers leave such things out?

Look at early paintings in the catacombs of the early church. You will see the cross. The Apostles would have been familiar with these.
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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Jesus is no longer an infant. He is no longer being "presented" by Mary. He is risen and sits at the right hand of the Father, our High Priest and Mediator, interceding for us.

Still that is her historic place.

Then perhaps you would prefer this Icon.

Christ%2Bthe%2BKing%2BIcon%2B%255BLarge%255D.jpg


Icons are teaching tools for those who cannot read. The Gospel story is told from within them.

Forgive me...
 
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amariselle

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You carry pictures of you children or family? They are not idols.

Forgive me...

Actually I don't, but it's not at all the same for those who do. Unless of course they use those photos as some part of worshipping God. Then yes, I would be concerned.
 
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Goatee

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Luke 1:26-45
26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And he came to her and said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!” 29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. 30 And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus.

32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High;
and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,
33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever;
and of his kingdom there will be no end.”

34 And Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I have no husband?” 35 And the angel said to her,

“The Holy Spirit will come upon you,
and the power of the Most High will overshadow you;
therefore the child to be born will be called holy,
the Son of God.

36 And behold, your kinswoman Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. 37 For with God nothing will be impossible.” 38 And Mary said, “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.

Mary Visits Elizabeth
39 In those days Mary arose and went with haste into the hill country, to a city of Judah, 40 and she entered the house of Zechari′ah and greeted Elizabeth. 41 And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit 42 and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfilment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.”
 
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HighCherub

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Right, keep telling yourself that.

I search the Scriptures, nowhere in them is Mary even once elevated or venerated as the Catholic Church elevates and venerates her.

Catholics draw conclusions such as Mary being the New Ark of the Covenant- being literally the vessel that carried Christ, much like the Ark and the Tablets.

There's a lot of things which have caused them to elevate Mary, all the way to the point of her being the 'Co Redeemer' according to Roman dogma.
 
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amariselle

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Look at early paintings in the catacombs of the early church. You will see the cross. The Apostles would have been familiar with these.

Not the same. However, if the early Christians saw those as a necessary part of worship, that would be a concern.
 
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Adstar

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Adstar said: """ I will not be coming to an Orthodox Church to worship.. Ever.."""

I find this, if true, to be mournfully sad, because what the Faithful will be doing for all of Eternity in the Kingdom of God is going to be what is done during Liturgy in Orthodox Churches.

I am glad i have had the opportunity to reveal that i will never worship in an Orthodox Church.. ever..
It is a joy to be seperate from what one believes is false..
 
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amariselle

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Still that is her historic place.

Then perhaps you would prefer this Icon.

Christ%2Bthe%2BKing%2BIcon%2B%255BLarge%255D.jpg


Icons are teaching tools for those who cannot read. The Gospel story is told from within them.

Forgive me...

How does that icon alone tell the Gospel story?
 
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amariselle

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The wedding at Cana... idol? Or teaching tool?

335da8b85085d96b249a46634c48e938.jpg


Forgive me...

Depends how you use it I guess. If it needs to be part of worship, I would say it has become an idol.
 
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amariselle

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How about this one? Perhaps it's more of what you had in mind?

churchStNicholasMottolaCropped.jpg


Forgive me...

As I said, if they become a necessary part of worship, or are needed to help one worship, I believe they have become an idol.
 
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amariselle

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Catholics draw conclusions such as Mary being the New Ark of the Covenant- being literally the vessel that carried Christ, much like the Ark and the Tablets.

There's a lot of things which have caused them to elevate Mary, all the way to the point of her being the 'Co Redeemer' according to Roman dogma.

Yep, very problematic.
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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How does that icon alone tell the Gospel story?

The Greek says... The Great I AM. Jesus Christ. King of Glory. Conquer of death. He's making the sign of the cross and he's holding open the Gospel book.

Forgive me...
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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As I said, if they become a necessary part of worship, or are needed to help one worship, I believe they have become an idol.

Does the bible help you worship? Then by your standard it's an idol.
Icons are teaching tools... the poor mans bible.

End of my discussion on this topic.

Forgive me...
 
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amariselle

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Does the bible help you worship? Then by your standard it's an idol.
Icons are teaching tools... the poor mans bible.

End of my discussion on this topic.

Forgive me...

Yeah...not even close to the same thing. The Bible is the inspired word of God, without which we would know absolutely nothing specific about Him or our Saviour, Jesus Christ. Not even all the icons in the world would tell us for sure, if we didn't have the Bible.

But yes, probably best to just move on, obviously we are not going to agree.
 
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