Does the Sabbath still exist?

[bugkiller]

bugkiller,

the ten commandments and the statutes and judgements are spelled out in ex 20-24.

i posted a portion here:

Exodus 24:3-4 ( KJV ) 3And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do. 4And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.
Exodus 24:7 ( KJV ) 7And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.
Exodus 24:12 ( KJV ) 12And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.
Exodus 24:18 ( KJV ) 18And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.


notice that moses wrote the statutes and the judgements and God wrote the ten commandments.

it's interesting to me, that God wrote part of the law and moses wrote part of the law, of course the part that moses wrote we know as the mosaic law, (which had the ministration of death ex 21:12), and later the sacraficial laws were added.

i see it as God writing the spiritual part of the law and moses writing the physical applications of the law to our everyday life.

Perhaps you can help me out just a wee bit here.

What is spiritual about:

• honoring parents
• murder
• adultery
• stealing
• lying
• coveting

the whole law would include the ten commandments, the law of the tithe, the marriage law, the mosaic law.

And wasn't the Mosaic law nailed to the cross? Seems that tithing was mentioned in the NT. Mentioning something does not equate to a command. How do you tithe? I bet ya it is not with produce.

only certain laws were abolished as they were part of the old covenant agreement. but all of the law was not abolished.

Now you wish to change the story and be selective.

the marriage law was not abolished, neither was the law of the tithe.

My guess is that you selected both of these because their concepts existed prior to Sinai. I would agree that the family was not abolished and marriage is infact promoted in the NT. I would not say the same about tithing.

and certainly not the ten commandments!

You are free to post the command to observe the 4th in the NT and prove everybody else (Sunday keepers as you call us) wrong.

however the mosaic law was no longer binding, was done away after the sacrifice of the Christ.

Perhaps you should qualifiy that because of your statement above.

and of course there's this:

Genesis 26:5 ( KJV ) 5Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

What about it? Abraham was 430 years before the law. Gal 3:17 How could your reference possibly be about the ten commandments?

now look:

James 2:8-13 ( KJV ) 8If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath showed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

here is james talking long after the crucifiction and he's talking about the "whole law", but you know he's talking about the ten commandments.

No, James isn't talking about the ten commandments. He is using them as an example from the whole law. Do you really think it is necessary to list every law? There are 613 of them. James is making a point, not singling out the commandments. I guess it does help you in that you can not say James was not including the ten commandments.

now if you want to parse at this point, go ahead, but tell me what part of the law you know of that can be referred to as the "royal law" and "law of liberty"?

I already addressed the point of the "law of liberty" as not being in the OT/OC anywhere. If you think it is please show me. I won't argue the "royal law" because it can be traced back to the Torah/Pentateuch. This does not mean it is seperate from the law.

and maybe this verse from galatians is clearer in its meaning for you:

Galatians 3:10 ( KJV ) 10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Does the highlighted have any meaning for you? or are those words just meaningless filler?

bugkiller

 

[Frogster]

Here is something interesting and a little note: Paul had an infirmity, can you find it in Gal.


Hope your having a good fourth. Fireworks start here soon.

Y

yes,i am aware of the verse..Where ya headed with that thought?

 

[Frogster]

Then you need to go back over the previous post.

You also might look into Pagan calendars, Jewish calendar and biblical calendars. They are different. You also might note that even the Pharisees kept the "traditions of men"

Go back over the posts! I have regardless how long they are. I read them all last nite.

What other calendar would it be? Who caused the change with the Galatians?

If Chinese fellows were influencing them,then I would say the chinese calendar.Since Jewish guys were influencing them,then I would say.....

 

[YosemiteSam]

Nice long post. You have been working very hard.

I have a few questions for you.

How many sources can you quote the ten commandments from and where did you first hear them quoted from? or read of them?

The bible!

Is being in the synagogue proof that you observed the sabbath?

Answer No!

Since Jesus and others called Christians attended the synagogue and you maintain that we are to follow their example, why do you not attend the synagagoue with the Jews? If you don't you are not following their example.

I do!

Have you ever heard of a tract called 100 facts about the Sabbath? It is commonly distributed by the SDA church. The reason I ask is your very long paragraph seems very close, just a harder to read format.

No, but now I do. I looked it up. And it looks nothing like I wrote

 

[YosemiteSam]

yes,i am aware of the verse..Where ya headed with that thought?

where is it?

 

[Frogster]

where is it?

i sense a trap..you tell me,you obviously know it is there

 

[bugkiller]

Nice long post. You have been working very hard.

I have a few questions for you.

How many sources can you quote the ten commandments from and where did you first hear them quoted from? or read of them?

The bible!

Ah so, you didn't get them from the stone tablets. My point is you only know by hear say (someone's testimony) about the ten commandments. Why do you say part of what they say is true when you can present no hard evidence. What makes Moses legit and Paul a phony or a liar? Is it because Moses is first? You leave no room for the progression of how salvation became effective. Isa 28:13 sheds light on this as well as the historical evidence in the Bible. Here is the verse: But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Is being in the synagogue proof that you observed the sabbath?

Answer No!

Then why is it your main evidence of sabbath keeping?

Since Jesus and others called Christians attended the synagogue and you maintain that we are to follow their example, why do you not attend the synagagoue with the Jews? If you don't you are not following their example.

I do!

Really? How do they feel about your position on Jesus? Church and synagogue are not the same. You might say this because you view the church as Israel. Care to make clear your position here on this thread or on my thread here: http://www.christianforums.com/t7480258/#post55141546 I don't recall seeing your presence there.

Have you ever heard of a tract called 100 facts about the Sabbath? It is commonly distributed by the SDA church. The reason I ask is your very long paragraph seems very close, just a harder to read format.

No, but now I do. I looked it up. And it looks nothing like I wrote

I said as you quoted above seems very close. I did not say the same. Words and grammar do make a difference.

bugkiller

 

[YosemiteSam]

i sense a trap..you tell me,you obviously know it is there

LOL...its no trap...its in the book of Galatians

Y

 

[YosemiteSam]

i sense a trap..you tell me,you obviously know it is there

Nope, too funny. Just something interesting about Paul.

Look at Gal 4:15 "Where is then the blessedness you spoke of? for I bear you witness, that, if it had been possible, you would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me."

Then look at Gal 6:11 "You see with what large letters I have written unto you with mine own hand."

Paul spoke several times of an infirmity. This is strong evidence that his infirmity was poor eye sight. Just a little bit of knowledge for the books. Gives us some insight on the apostle himself.

 

[YosemiteSam]

i sense a trap..you tell me,you obviously know it is there

Earlier I asked you, why God choose him to be a minister to the gentiles?

Can you think of anything?

Y

 

[Frogster]

Nope, too funny. Just something interesting about Paul.

Look at Gal 4:15 "Where is then the blessedness you spoke of? for I bear you witness, that, if it had been possible, you would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me."

Then look at Gal 6:11 "You see with what large letters I have written unto you with mine own hand."

Paul spoke several times of an infirmity. This is strong evidence that his infirmity was poor eye sight. Just a little bit of knowledge for the books. Gives us some insight on the apostle himself.

I believe that too,poor eye sight. I think also there was another eye ailment they had also,where they would get puss in their eyes.

Or,it could just be the large letters were a sign of authenticity.

2 Thessalonians 3:17
I, Paul, write this greeting with my own hand. This is the sign of genuineness in every letter of mine; it is the way I write.

Ok....back to this!


10 You observe days and months and seasons and years! 11 I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.

Why that?

 

[bugkiller]

Earlier I asked you, why God choose him to be a minister to the gentiles?

Can you think of anything?

Y

Well yes we could discuss this. But what value or good would that do? It is just another rabbit trail diversion. God prepared Paul for what he did. Are you jealous? Are you angry? God could have used someone else in the same way with the same results. So what is the problem?

bugkiller

 

[JohnRabbit]

Perhaps you can help me out just a wee bit here.

What is spiritual about:

• honoring parents
• murder
• adultery
• stealing
• lying
• covetingAnd wasn't the Mosaic law nailed to the cross? Seems that tithing was mentioned in the NT. Mentioning something does not equate to a command. How do you tithe? I bet ya it is not with produce. Now you wish to change the story and be selective. My guess is that you selected both of these because their concepts existed prior to Sinai. I would agree that the family was not abolished and marriage is infact promoted in the NT. I would not say the same about tithing.You are free to post the command to observe the 4th in the NT and prove everybody else (Sunday keepers as you call us) wrong. Perhaps you should qualifiy that because of your statement above.What about it? Abraham was 430 years before the law. Gal 3:17 How could your reference possibly be about the ten commandments?No, James isn't talking about the ten commandments. He is using them as an example from the whole law. Do you really think it is necessary to list every law? There are 613 of them. James is making a point, not singling out the commandments. I guess it does help you in that you can not say James was not including the ten commandments. I already addressed the point of the "law of liberty" as not being in the OT/OC anywhere. If you think it is please show me. I won't argue the "royal law" because it can be traced back to the Torah/Pentateuch. This does not mean it is seperate from the law. Does the highlighted have any meaning for you? or are those words just meaningless filler?
  
  bugkiller
  
  

• 
  
  i'm dissappointed in this response from you. it is filled with you rambling along about how wrong i am and nothing from the bible to back you up.
  
  What is spiritual about, murder? are you serious?
  
  tithing, mentioning something doesn't make it a command?
  whatever!
  
  James isn't talking about the ten commandments, in james chapter 2?
  mind blowing!
  
  How do you tithe? again, are you serious?
  
  Do you really think it is necessary to list every law?
  i think so, remember, you said that they did not list the sabbath command in the nt, so, yes, it is obviously necessary, (according to you, even), to list all of the laws.
  
  like i said, your response is weak at best! and i notice when you don't want to answer something, there's always something wrong with the translation of the bible one is using. (we've had that same history in another thread and you did'nt answer my question and you had the same reason about what translation i quoted from),
  
  nevertheless, answer this,
  
  Romans 7:25 ( NKJV ) 25I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
  So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
  
  please explaing what paul is talking about, since you say the law was abolished. hope you don't have a problem with the new king james version.

 

[Frogster]

i'm dissappointed in this response from you. it is filled with you rambling along about how wrong i am and nothing from the bible to back you up.

What is spiritual about, murder? are you serious?

tithing, mentioning something doesn't make it a command?
whatever!

James isn't talking about the ten commandments, in james chapter 2?
mind blowing!

How do you tithe? again, are you serious?

Do you really think it is necessary to list every law?
i think so, remember, you said that they did not list the sabbath command in the nt, so, yes, it is obviously necessary, (according to you, even), to list all of the laws.

like i said, your response is weak at best! and i notice when you don't want to answer something, there's always something wrong with the translation of the bible one is using. (we've had that same history in another thread and you did'nt answer my question and you had the same reason about what translation i quoted from),

nevertheless, answer this,

Romans 7:25 ( NKJV ) 25I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

please explaing what paul is talking about, since you say the law was abolished. hope you don't have a problem with the new king james version.

Your prooftexting 7:25.

LOL! That is just it,he could not keep the law though

How can he serve what he was not under?

Right from the same letter.

Romans 6;14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Same here...

Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Lets go by the whole of it.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Lol! Rome was noted for laws! Law there is used in a general sense,and even if it was Jewish law,so what? Gentiles were well aware if it,that is why they knew the Jews were being hypocrits in Rom 2.God's name was blasphemed among the gentiles.Everyone knows that was figurative! Did you notice the emphasis culminated with.."YOU HAVE DIED TO THE LAW"?

READ THE SAME HERE DUDE.

Gal 2:19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. But the fact is..we have a new husband,you got stuck on figurative language.And,rom 7 was paul trying to keep the 10,and could not,it got worse.

7;4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.Notice how the law and flesh tied together?Read on..covet increased by the law..

7;8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead.

Notice what it does say.."apart from law,sin lies dead". What does that tell you about law?keep going..your just proving my point.."sinful passions,aroused bt law,in verse 5 and 8.Sure is spiritual,the law kills,read 2 cor 3.pretty deadly if you ask me,and Bugkiller.Then if he was freed from law death and sin,he had to be freed from the very law,the 10 commands that aroused the darn passions.Who dosen't know there is a struggle?But fact is,the more the law comes ,sin incresed.

Why this?

1 cor 15;56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

And this?

rom 5:20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass,[/U] but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

Your totally ignoring the facts of the verse.

Where does sin have dominion?

Rom 6;14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

look here,imprisoned under sin..imprisoned under law.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.

Bro,from the bottom of my heart,I don't know what you think you proved?

i guess i've proved nothing.

and you still won't touch rom 7:25!

 

[Frogster]

i guess i've proved nothing.

and you still won't touch rom 7:25!

Sure I did.I put it in it's proper context.I agree with paul.
The law is holy,and good!

But..in the larger pricture,you won't touch that it is the power of sin,it increased the tresspass,it kept men bound under it,it killed.

So yes,it is holy,but we are not under it.

Why did paul say he was not under it in Rom 6:14,and gal 5:18?

That is why I put it all in proper order. Alot of people proof text that verse.Did you read all of my post?

Touch ye this.

56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

 

[bugkiller]

i'm dissappointed in this response from you. it is filled with you rambling along about how wrong i am and nothing from the bible to back you up.

What is spiritual about, murder? are you serious?

tithing, mentioning something doesn't make it a command?
whatever!

James isn't talking about the ten commandments, in james chapter 2?
mind blowing!

How do you tithe? again, are you serious?

Yep, you better believe I am. I did not introduce the subject.

Do you really think it is necessary to list every law?
i think so, remember, you said that they did not list the sabbath command in the nt, so, yes, it is obviously necessary, (according to you, even), to list all of the laws.

If you have a contract and a detail is not in it its is not part of the contract. Jer 31:31, 32 states a new contract that is not like the old one. It does not say an amended contract.

like i said, your response is weak at best! and i notice when you don't want to answer something, there's always something wrong with the translation of the bible one is using. (we've had that same history in another thread and you did'nt answer my question and you had the same reason about what translation i quoted from),

That is personal opinion. I said nothing about not liking your version. I use the KJV because that is what my study aids are based on. A real problem for all you new comers. I have 10 yrs on ya jr.

nevertheless, answer this,

Romans 7:25 ( NKJV ) 25I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

please explaing what paul is talking about, since you say the law was abolished. hope you don't have a problem with the new king james version.

I regret that you think I am asking questions of no value. I don't really care what version you use as long as you say what one it is, instead of me having to go looking for it so I can see what you are talking about. I think a lot of translations pose serious doctrinal problems. I did not say the KJV has no translation problems or current English pose none with it.

I am not here to pass the time.

bugkiller