Does the Sabbath still exist?

[Arthur57]

Please reread my post as I answered point by point with you. I even agreed on some points.

Now you really think I'm going to come to a different conclusion with no outside input. So tell me what I should be looking for to come to your view point. Thanks.

To look the truth of what presented here and not the things that is against your will. Take whatever small the light is, but it will lead you to a greater light.

And here is one for you, from the thread New Testament Sabbath:

This is the New Testament Sabbath, a proof that Sabbath keeping as according to the 4th commandment is an obligation for Christ believers, AFTER HIS ASCENSION. Please study it with prayer, as this is the only text in the Scripture that sustains the 4th commandment and its Sabbath keeping is for Christ' believers post the cross of Christ.

Matthew 24:1-3, 15, 20, 21.
1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age. 3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age? 15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” 20. And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

One day, after a temple visit, sitting at the mount Olive in private with only his disciples and no other spectators, Jesus foretold how Jerusalem and the temple in particular would be destroyed and the signs of his second coming. The temple was destroyed in AD. 70 by Titus the Roman general and his army, 37 years after Jesus ascension to heaven.

The main important issue is Jesus saying: “And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.” What does Jesus has in mind?

Sabbath rest and it holy convocation will hold his disciples in the temple, and if this destruction happens at this day, many of them would have not the chance to safe themselves. Therefore they must pray that the destruction of the temple would not fall on Sabbath day, so they might escape and save their life.

This gives light to us, that the Sabbath keeping law is not nailed to the cross of Christ as many believes, that this 4th commandment exist and still an obligation for the disciples to keep it. It never crossed the disciples minds that the Sabbath keeping would ever be done away with, especially nailed to the cross, as many folks believe, which by believing so, they had made Jesus word meaningless.


Jesus himself, the Lord of the Sabbath, told his disciples without the presence of anyone else about an event that would happen 37 years after his ascension, and the same telling us, that his Sabbath was still in effect and lawful after his ascension. Imagine, if this disciples got their own disciples, would they not tell them the same, and if the destruction didn’t happen on AD. 70, and didn’t happen till now, wouldn’t all the disciples from generation to generation telling the same story?

Very clear, undeniable, the New testament Sabbath as according to the 4th commandment exist and lawful after Jesus ascension to heaven and till now and till the end of time, till eternity in heaven and the new world.

Jesus claimed himself as Lord of the Sabbath, the Lord God to whom his believers would worship him at that day in a holy convocation. Surely he wouldn’t be Lord of a day that would come to an end one day. He is God eternal, the day he claimed to be his day, should be eternal also, and not less than that.

Therefore, he clearly made a separation between Israeli sabbaths days and his own Sabath day, you can read this in Leviticus 23.

Leviticus 23:37, 38.
37 ‘These are the feasts of the LORD which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire to the LORD, a burnt offering and a grain offering, a sacrifice and drink offerings, everything on its day— 38 besides the Sabbaths of the LORD, besides your gifts, besides all your vows, and besides all your freewill offerings which you give to the LORD.

And these feast days that should be observed almost similar as observing the Lord’s Sabbath day, God called it “your sabbath.” (verse 32).

This Israeli sabbath is not Sabbath of the Lord, this Israeli sabbath was nailed to the cross (Col 2:16,17), but His Sabbath extent its existence till the end of time. Therefore, He is Lord of the Sabbath, a day eternal in its existence as he is eternal.

And Paul knew it, his was a Sabbath keeper.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

....................
This Israeli sabbath is not Sabbath of the Lord, this Israeli sabbath was nailed to the cross (Col 2:16,17), but His Sabbath extent its existence till the end of time. Therefore, He is Lord of the Sabbath, a day eternal in its existence as he is eternal.

GE:

Don't you get TIRED by and of two things?

One: To MIS-quote the Scriptures like here: "this Israeli sabbath was nailed to the cross (Col 2:16,17)";

Two: To idolize and worship the Law and the Sabbath in the place of God, like here: "the Sabbath, a day eternal in its existence as he is eternal."

Don't you get ASHAMED OF AND BY DOING IT while confessing you are a Christian?!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

If the Sabbath with its Law was not nailed to the cross and taken out of the way in and by and through Jesus Christ nailed to the cross, the Sabbath and its Law as little as Jesus Christ would 'post cross' have survived or have raised from the dead again, to disappear in eternal oblivion both of them. Only the Love and Grace of God prohibited it happened! THE CROSS AND RESURRECTION OF CHRIST FROM THE DEAD PROVE IT!

 

[from scratch]

GE:

Don't you get TIRED by and of two things?

One: To MIS-quote the Scriptures like here: "this Israeli sabbath was nailed to the cross (Col 2:16,17)";

Two: To idolize and worship the Law and the Sabbath in the place of God, like here: "the Sabbath, a day eternal in its existence as he is eternal."

Don't you get ASHAMED OF AND BY DOING IT while confessing you are a Christian?!

Sure am gald that I didn't have any tea in my mouth cause I'd hav spewd it all over every thing through my nose. Those are awesome quotes (hopwe that is what they are). Hey that's our boy arthur57. A totally committed SDA foot soldier. I got to locate those and put em in my SDA files.

 

[Arthur57]

GE:

Don't you get TIRED by and of two things?

One: To MIS-quote the Scriptures like here: "this Israeli sabbath was nailed to the cross (Col 2:16,17)";

Two: To idolize and worship the Law and the Sabbath in the place of God, like here: "the Sabbath, a day eternal in its existence as he is eternal."

Don't you get ASHAMED OF AND BY DOING IT while confessing you are a Christian?!

NO, BECAUSE THAT IS THE TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL THAT MUST BE SHARED.

There is a lot for you to study my brother.

 

[Arthur57]

If the Sabbath with its Law was not nailed to the cross and taken out of the way in and by and through Jesus Christ nailed to the cross, the Sabbath and its Law as little as Jesus Christ would 'post cross' have survived or have raised from the dead again, to disappear in eternal oblivion both of them. Only the Love and Grace of God prohibited it happened! THE CROSS AND RESURRECTION OF CHRIST FROM THE DEAD PROVE IT!

What are you talking?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

What are you talking?

GE:

Being a SDA you will never understand... Could you find it written on but one page in the writings of Ellen G White you would stake your life on it.

 

[Arthur57]

GE:

Being a SDA you will never understand... Could you find it written on but one page in the writings of Ellen G White you would stake your life on it.

I don't understand what you wrote, that's all. Who can?

 

[listed]

To look the truth of what presented here and not the things that is against your will. Take whatever small the light is, but it will lead you to a greater light.

And here is one for you, from the thread New Testament Sabbath:

This is the New Testament Sabbath, a proof that Sabbath keeping as according to the 4th commandment is an obligation for Christ believers, AFTER HIS ASCENSION. Please study it with prayer, as this is the only text in the Scripture that sustains the 4th commandment and its Sabbath keeping is for Christ' believers post the cross of Christ.

Matthew 24:1-3, 15, 20, 21.
1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age. 3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age? 15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” 20. And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

One day, after a temple visit, sitting at the mount Olive in private with only his disciples and no other spectators, Jesus foretold how Jerusalem and the temple in particular would be destroyed and the signs of his second coming. The temple was destroyed in AD. 70 by Titus the Roman general and his army, 37 years after Jesus ascension to heaven.

The main important issue is Jesus saying: “And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.” What does Jesus has in mind?

Sabbath rest and it holy convocation will hold his disciples in the temple, and if this destruction happens at this day, many of them would have not the chance to safe themselves. Therefore they must pray that the destruction of the temple would not fall on Sabbath day, so they might escape and save their life.

This gives light to us, that the Sabbath keeping law is not nailed to the cross of Christ as many believes, that this 4th commandment exist and still an obligation for the disciples to keep it. It never crossed the disciples minds that the Sabbath keeping would ever be done away with, especially nailed to the cross, as many folks believe, which by believing so, they had made Jesus word meaningless.


Jesus himself, the Lord of the Sabbath, told his disciples without the presence of anyone else about an event that would happen 37 years after his ascension, and the same telling us, that his Sabbath was still in effect and lawful after his ascension. Imagine, if this disciples got their own disciples, would they not tell them the same, and if the destruction didn’t happen on AD. 70, and didn’t happen till now, wouldn’t all the disciples from generation to generation telling the same story?

Very clear, undeniable, the New testament Sabbath as according to the 4th commandment exist and lawful after Jesus ascension to heaven and till now and till the end of time, till eternity in heaven and the new world.

Jesus claimed himself as Lord of the Sabbath, the Lord God to whom his believers would worship him at that day in a holy convocation. Surely he wouldn’t be Lord of a day that would come to an end one day. He is God eternal, the day he claimed to be his day, should be eternal also, and not less than that.

Therefore, he clearly made a separation between Israeli sabbaths days and his own Sabath day, you can read this in Leviticus 23.

Leviticus 23:37, 38.
37 ‘These are the feasts of the LORD which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire to the LORD, a burnt offering and a grain offering, a sacrifice and drink offerings, everything on its day— 38 besides the Sabbaths of the LORD, besides your gifts, besides all your vows, and besides all your freewill offerings which you give to the LORD.

And these feast days that should be observed almost similar as observing the Lord’s Sabbath day, God called it “your sabbath.” (verse 32).

This Israeli sabbath is not Sabbath of the Lord, this Israeli sabbath was nailed to the cross (Col 2:16,17), but His Sabbath extent its existence till the end of time. Therefore, He is Lord of the Sabbath, a day eternal in its existence as he is eternal.

And Paul knew it, his was a Sabbath keeper.

Could you explain the habits and customs of the Jews? I think that Jesus had this in mind and not the keeping of the sabbath.

 

[Arthur57]

Could you explain the habits and customs of the Jews? I think that Jesus had this in mind and not the keeping of the sabbath.

What is the base of your thinking?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

In and through and with Jesus Christ nailed to the cross and done away with and obliterated, the LAW_OF_GOD is, has been and had been nailed to the cross and done away with and obliterated.

Jesus Christ dying death the reward of sin, is The DEATH of the LAW of God;

Jesus Christ dying death the reward of sin, is the DEATH of the LIFE of GOD;

Jesus Christ dying death the reward of sin, is the DEATH OF DEATH.

Jesus Christ dying death the reward of sin, is the RESURRECTION and the LIFE!

Had the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD not suffered the same IN CHRIST, shared it no GLORY IN JESUS CHRIST.

Had you or I not suffered the same IN CHRIST, neither you nor I shared GLORY IN JESUS CHRIST.

Shut out from the suffering and dying and death IN JESUS CHRIST WITH JESUS CHRIST, is being shut out from the TRIUMPH, GLORY AND RULE AND KINGDOM OF CHRIST. You, me, and Law, Creation, even Christ Himself. A Seed must first DIE that it may LIVE, is the Law of God: IN CHRIST!

 

[CGL1023]

Does the Sabbath still exist? That is the question. We will discuss here both sides of the topic for or against.

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree(Gal 3:13).

All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law(Gal 3:10).

Our New covenant has done away with the Old Covenant. We see that in Gal 3:13. If we are out from under the law and we go back under the law, we are under a curse by Gal 3:10. From James we see that if we are under the law, and commit an infraction in one point of the law, it is a total violation of the law. It will be hard to keep 613 individual requirements of the law as they tried to do in the old testament.

Why someone would want to go back under the law is beyond me. That is to leave the liberty of grace to be under the bondage to the law and be under a curse.

.

 

[from scratch]

It was stated, that Gentiles of the old testament, were never commanded to keep the Sabbath. Others say, the Sabbath was given to the Jews only, and that the Gentiles have nothing to do with it. But it is to be remembered, that the Sabbath was given long before there was a Jew on earth, and there were even under the old dispensation, exceeding great and precious promises made to the strict observers of the Sabbath; and that too, to the Gentiles in particular. And the seventh day is no where in scripture called the Jews Sabbath; but our Savior says the Sabbath man, signifying all men, and it appears, that whole nations of the Gentiles were destroyed, because they went contrary to the laws given to the Jews, among which was the Sabbath, as you may see, Lev 18:27, 19:3 and 20:23. These three passages you may read at your leisure, and by which, it is plain that it was the duty of the Gentiles to keep the laws, and statutes, that were given to the Jews, and I see no reason why we should single out the Sabbath from the rest, and say, it is not binding on the Gentiles, when it is absolutely necessary for all people, under heaven, as I hope is shown; and almost all Christians acknowledge the necessity of a Sabbath, although they refuse to keep the one that God commanded.

So where do you find the existance of the sabbath before Ex 16? This was spoken to the Isrealites only and not the world. This is part of the law according to Moses and wasn't given to anyone else - Deut 5:3.

 

[from scratch]

Do you Frogster or ricker attend church on Sunday?

What exactly does that have to do with what the Bible says? I didn't read any claims by them to this effect.

 

[from scratch]

Frogster,

i guess that you don't know that the ministration of death was nailed to the cross along with ritualistic laws of moses.

it's sad, i think, that you don't know that.

Exactly the ministration of death is the law. By what authority does death come, if not from the law?

 

[from scratch]

Frogster,

First you must consider the scriptures thoroughly. In your reference as to Judaizers trying to pull sway over the church, you in fact could not be further from truth. I hope that, in Paul writing of the events concerning Peter, you would in no way assert that this is fact of Jews gaining influence in the church of Galatia. Again, I would that you stick with the facts.

But most damaging to this type of logic is simply the Galatians were "turning again" to days that they had previously observed. Yet you say Jadaizers were trying to impose on them the Sabbath and Holy days. I ask you, how could you "turn again" to days which you never observed from the beginning. Could you "turn again" to the true Sabbath?

Would you dare try to persuade me that the Galatians were Jews? Paul makes it clear in Gal 5:6 and 6:12 that they were physically uncircumcised. How then can they be Jews? No, they were gentiles from asia minor, a providence of Rome, which I already stated earlier, they from the beginning did not observe Jewish traditions.

Do you not know what pagan worship is? Do you not know of pagan gods? Rome - there were Mithras and Mithraism Greece - Zues, Apollo with Delphi and Delos, Aphrodite with Corinth... Images and shrines paved the streets of Corinth...An altar of dedication to anonymous gods, found at Pergamum, Asia Minor... Have you not read of Paul's visit to Athens and the altar of the unknown god? Act 17:22 Do you need more?

"We" as you refer to it, meaning "Paul in Judaism", might I ask, to whom do you think Paul was speaking? Would context prove "we" as those in the church? I would, you rethink your position.

Finally, v 8 seems to extinguish such foolishness. "When you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods." Paul referring clearly to idol worship. ("clearly to the idols of paganism, which, in typical Jewish idiom, Paul termed 'not gods'" The Expositor's Bible Commentary, 1976, Vol 10 p 475)

The question on Gal 4 was answered in full earlier, but maybe one might be in need of more clarification.

Now Frogster, you said earlier,
"Proper debate protocol,says we now stick to these fundamental,issues,and not go into any new tangents,that diffuse,and divert.Please answer these directly."

You stick to the fundamental issue. Stay the course. The verses here are clearly speaking of idol worship, which is also understood, that some like to use this chapter and verse as an argument against the Sabbath. I have received your opinion on the matter, and it will simply not do. No where in this letter are the holy days or Sabbaths mentioned.

Next topic for or against the Sabbath?

So do you go to church on Sunday? I asked this question earlier.

Since the book of Galatians is supposedly written only to Gentiles what is the improtance of 3:28? Why would it matter to a Gentileif there was a Jew in Christ Jesus or the Church?

Then we also have the issue that Paul went first to the Jew and was often found at the synagogue. Yet there are no believing Jews to be found in the Galatian churches. Sounds highly improbable to me. Surely you're dismissing the record found in Acts.

 

[from scratch]

Well, considering you already answered the question but failed to see it. Read verse 9 again,

"But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years!"

I pasted yours above since you went to such a task as to underline the words. But what you fail to notice is "elementary principles of the WORLD" I want everybody who reads this to get out your bibles. It does not say elementary principles of judaism. It says the world!

Furthermore, "Moses" is never mentioned in the letter to the Galatians.

I know this is frustrating, but the Judaism was not the only religion in the world at this time either.

Case closed on Galatians 4, move on to something else. Anyone who reads these post, I am sure will have enough sense to see that Paul was clearly referring to idol worship. If you can't, which I am sure you do, I hate it for ya. And anyone here can see that I have poised no trick.

And to answer your other question, Paul was once under the influence of the world before his conversion. He was a minister to gentiles who believed in polytheism. And our advocate seems to think that the Sabbath was just for the Jews. "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." That should end that short discussion....MADE FOR MAN!

Ya know that may be exactly right. But you have ignored the historical record of Acts as well as historical facts found in Galatians.

Am also curious if there were no prosyltes in the churches of Galatia. They wouldn't be engaged in idol worship.

 

[bugkiller]

ok,

you said:

I understand you to say that Moses is solely responsible for everything except the ten commandments. My position is that Moses got the laws he wrote from God: not something Moses made up.

That would be a very bad misunderstanding. First of all I would never say that. I do not divide the law into parts as the SDA do. It was stated as the position of the pro law camp which I disagree with very loudly.

did you not see in the verse i posted, verse 4 of exodus 24, and moses wrote all the words of the Lord!

now, notice what i said:

moses wrote the statutes and the judgements and God wrote the ten commandements. where did you get moses made up somethig from out of that?

again you said:

Where is the fourth reinstituted in the NT/NC as a law requirement? Verse please.

there is no verse that states that emphatically in the nt, but by reading the acts of the apostles, we can see that they still observed God's sabbaths.

Who were the Apostles? I think of them as Jews. Yet you ignore other parts of Acts - notably 20:7 that indicate Christians meeting on Sunday. Corinthian and Galatian churches both meet on Sunday per I Cor 16:2.

and then:

How is this? You just said the tithe is binding and it is clearly not in the ten commandments. That makes it
a law of Moses according to you. The law of Moses is what got nailed to the cross according to you.

speaking of abraham, the bible says this:

Genesis 14:20 ( NKJV ) 20 And blessed be God Most High,
Who has delivered your enemies into your hand.”
And he gave him a tithe of all.

so, looks to me, the tithe was in effect before moses. and, btw, it is not according to me.

Looks to me like you do not understand the tithe as promoted in the law. Abraham gave nothing of his personal property in this instance. The only thing that Abraham kept was what was consumed by him and his band. The rest he gave back to the king of Sodom.

and again you said:

There is no liberty under the law.The 'law of liberty' is not a reference to the law (of Moses or the ten
commandments).

if you can read james 2:8-13, and think that james is not talking about the ten commandements then all i can say is whatever.

Doesn't James refer to 2 of the commandments?

and you said:

Out of context all by itself you have a point. In context you have no support. I can use Gal 5:4 all by itself
to disprove your implied meaning. Here it is: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are
justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Galatians 5:3-4 ( KJV ) 3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Galatians 3:10 ( KJV ) 10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

of course you can't see that paul is talking about the mosaic law and that the "whole law" in this case means "all things which are written in the book of the law", the part of the law that required physical effort to accomplish.

How does all mean part? Do you keep all the law written in the book of the law? Nope you don't even keep the 4th as regulated by the law.

and you know that the spiritual law of God, (the ten commandments), requires no physical work to accomplish.

out of context? whatever.

and finally you said:

Galatians 3:10 ( KJV ) 10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

This verse says if you adhere to the law of the OC which includes the law of Moses and the ten commandments,
you have no salvation.

this must be "the gospel according to bugkiller", because the verse says nothing about the ten commandments!

Are the ten commandments found in the book of the law?

Sorry I over looked this post before.

bugkiller

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

To quote the Talking Heads: Stop Making Sense!

PS. I suppose you are too young for that reference.

I'm not

http://www.christianforums.com/t7518566/#post56565631
Where's Your Head At - Basement Jaxx

‪Talking Heads - "Once In A Lifetime"‬‏ - YouTube

 

[Helenm12]

The literal meaning of Sabbath is "sitting down" from the Hebrew verb lashevet. We read in Hebrews that after Jesus had finished his work on the Cross, he sat down at the right hand of his Father in Heaven. The book of Hebrews is all about God calling us to enter into his rest - his sitting down - with him. On the 7th day of creation, God rested. Rest is a biblical principal, and the greatest thing that Christ bought for us on the cross. Because of what he did, we can truly be at rest - at peace with ourselves.

Whether or not to keep the Sabbath is not a question of law and bondage. It's not about a list of rules of what to do and not to do, or about which day is meant to be the Sabbath. It's about learning how to be at rest and enter into the wonderful promises that God has for us.