Charis kai Dunamis
χάρις καὶ δύναμις
I don't do homework for others
You don't do homework at all apparently, because stating "it is in the present tense so they must endure" really fails to explain the situation.
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You don't do homework at all apparently, because stating "it is in the present tense so they must endure" really fails to explain the situation.
Charis kai Dunamis
χάρις καὶ δύναμις
Nothing about my quote is an ad hominem. If you are going to pose an argument and quote greek tenses then it isn't too much to ask that you explain yourself and give support. I asked for it once, got a snarky comment about "not doing homework for others" and then when called out on it, you now are leaving the discussion.
The least you could do is have the courtesy to explain something you are throwing out as proof. If you can't explain it or support it then what good is it?
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Additional confirmation of salvation.
Which a person has but only is for those who believe in Him.
1 John 5
Now if you do not believe in Him, then you do not have the Holy Spirit within you. You can only say Jesus is Lord by the Holy Spirit in your life. If you do not have the Holy Spirit within you then you are none of His, you have not been sealed in the Holy Spirit and your hell bound. Even lets say you seemed to have made a confession of faith in the past, but then depart the faith, you are proven not to be one of His children. Which means you are not elect of God, chosen in Him from the foundation of the world, from the beginning.
2 Thess 2 talks of this election.
In the parable of the sower, only the one who bore the fruit was elect and saved.
1 John 1: 18
God makes it clear separating His children from the world's children, and if not then at the judgement of the sheep and the goats. It all gets exposed in the end.
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SavedByGraceThruFaith
Regular Member
You are not considering what Paul said. When a person is saved, they receive a new nature which Paul called "the new man". The flesh or old man is still there can sin and fall away. But not the "new man." That new nature does not sin because it "is born of God", does not stop believing, and does not denounce its salvation.
Ephesians 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
So OSAS is true.
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Correspondingly,
(1) Never? So I never even one time adressed a single verse you provided. I'll let the actual text on the forum decide that. If you look back I've actually addressed at least most of the verses you provided quite extensively, you simply don't care enough to analyze my posts and actually attempt to refute them, instead you quote other verses out of context with your presuppositions attached.
(2) Penal Substitution is a man made theory, google, "Anselm, penal substitution"
The bible says Ransom, literally, the word ransom is used, but penal substitution is never used once.
(3)I'm not avoiding the facts, you however are clearly guilty of lying, or being too quick to skim through my writings out of the fear that you are wrong. The fear of The Lord is the beginning of wisdom, but you have no fear of The Lord, you think you're invincible because God sees you as perfect because of Jesus, however your beliefs are simply made up, do your history homework.
(4)No, I deny the lie that his blood cleanses sins that are not repented of, for example, a person who continues in sexual immorality does not have his sins washed, since he still commits his sins.
Repentance must take place, otherwise the faith is dead.
(5)You tell yourself a lie, truthfully you assume you are correct. You are too carnally minded to understand, it's foolishness to you, my words, right?
Before any moderator kicks me off of here, I'll note, he calls himself the carnal man sold under sin, which clearly means slave of sin.
While we were yet/still sinners Christ died for us, correct?
Why does it say, "yet/still"... We don't continue in our sins, we have repented.
None of the verses apply to the ones who stay carnally minded.
Take note of Romans 3:25, refers to sins that are past, ie repented of, not future sins forgive before repentance. Christ died for is, surely, I merely disagree with OSAS, in the sense that even if we commit the most heinous sins, we can still be regarded as in the faith, which we cannot be, per 1 Cor 6:9-11.
1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
And we die with him in baptism, raised to a new, christian born again life, not sinning.
Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
While we we "yet", and christians are saints, not as in practicers of sin.
1 Corinthians 15:3
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
Romans 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Colossians 1:12-14
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
These verses are quite plain, they don't at all imply we don't have to repent to be forgiven.
Ephesians 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Agreed, redemption, but in order for such to happen we must actually be redeemed, out of slavery of sin, and we know, Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. (John 8:34 NKJV)
Colossians 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Refers to all, as in those committed, as said in romans 3:25
Romans 8:33-39
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Read all of Rom 8, its for the spiritual man, not the carnal stay in sin man.
I wont post much here often, I will still post, but if anyone wants to look into the history of this, just read the forum, I've written much here, quite ignored.
Thank you, God bless.
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I would like to understand your theology.
Are you saying a christian has 2 separate "natures" which work as people.
One nature, the old man, is the one that and is not saved while the other nature, the new man does not sin?
In essence you claim you are 2 people, a carnal man and a spiritual man.
Correct?
For anyone curious I recommend doing research on manicheaism
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SavedByGraceThruFaith
Regular Member
Your attempt at diverting to some old theory is a straw man. That deceptive technique can work both ways.
A saved person (one person) has 2 natures: vile flesh and the reborn sprit that Paul called the "new man"
I would recommend that everyone just read Paul who knows better than anyone including you.
Writing to the already saved (see Ephesians 1:22-24), Paul wrote:
Ephesians 4:24
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Paul also wrote. Notice how the flesh and Spirit are contrary to one another.
Galatians 5:16-17
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Paul, while saved, wrote the following. Note the present tense. This passage shows that Paul still sinned in the flesh.
Romans 7:14-25
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
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“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. (Matthew 7:15-20 NKJV)
When reading the bible everyone has hermeneutical assumptions when it comes to interpretation.
You for example have the idea that the christian life is carnal and spiritual at the same time, and carnal while saved.
As already said, given Romans 7 is literally Paul writing about himself, he in no way implies that he is saved while writing it. He uses the words, he is carnal sold under sin.
In order for understanding to occur, we ought not try to merely quote scripture, becuase we don't know what the opposition's hermeneutical assumptions about such scriptures are.
For example, you may quote romans 7:14, and say "see this is a saved Christian",
However the verse itself merely says such person is "carnal sold under sin", but this in no way directly indicates that a person is saved.
The idea that (given Paul is literally refering to himself) Paul is unsaved while writing his letter, is as strange to you as Paul living in sin writing his letter is to me.
Sola-Scriptura, the idea in a loose sense is good, using scripture as authoritative, and not other books as final in the matter.
However the problem is "almost" everyone has a mind that interprets scripture in favor of his/her view, and I commend those who attempt to look outside the indoctrination of society.
As I sat here reading the verses you posted I wonder this:
"What is this guy thinking... Does he think " yes, win, I just posted these awesome verses refuting this guy"
All the while, I sit here, and think, oh look, he's just posting verses...which dont really imply his view"
For example, I asked the question, "is it impossible for the Romans 7 passage to be merely first-person narrative style "literary present" tense?" To which you did not give a yes or no, but you say, "its in the present tense", which is something I agree with. The question wasnt "is it in the present tense?", it was, "is it literary present?" As in, is the passage merely being used as a tool to convey an idea in the first person... Figurative writing? Why not?
You answer: it's in the present tense
Yes, and that is precisly right, it is in the present tense, that was not even the question though. Your goal ought not to merely be the last to speak and say "you're wrong".
Can Paul be understood more clearly under the view that a christian lives as a carnal man, and a spiritual? Or is it more clear if the christian is spiritual, as in the chrisitan walk, and not carnal, although sin may occur, it is not the norm, and if rebellion doesnt cease, such person isnt of the faith?
I believe my posts have clearly shown that a christian is not to live in sin, but serve God. The notion that even child molestors can remain in their sins, which you undoubtably must subscribe to for OSAS and penal substitution to be true, is quite wrong and vile.
For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them. (Ephesians 5:5-7 NKJV)
Paul wrote that, and you certainly must disagree with that, for sexually immoral "believers" are saved in your belief system.
Thus I conclude, the christian life is as the new man, but he ceases to be saved if he puts on the old man.
It's quite evident from the verse i just quoted. You cant be a fornicator and inherit the kingdom, you have to stop your sins.
The problem is, a person who is carnal, is most likely not to understand what I've written unfortunately, but it's possible.
But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, (II Thessalonians 2:13 NKJV)
We are saved not by God declaring us righteous while we do any evil, God is not mocked... but via sanctification, by God working with us to transform our lives from darkness to light.
And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. (Matthew 10:22 NKJV)
What are you enduring in, mere belief, or a faith that works by love?
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SavedByGraceThruFaith
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As to Romans 7:14-25, Paul wrote it while saved and used the present tense. That obviously testifies against your false doctrine. That is why you are trying to in effect change the tense of the verbs. That is evil to change God's word.
The false prophet is sheep's clothes preaches a works based salvation, which is what your doctrine in essence is.
As to who is hated, Jesus Christ said the following. Please note He did not say sins, but works. That means any works for salvation.
John 7:7
The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.
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How do you know that he meant that?
Why couldn't he have meant that "their works are evil" as to mean ... They sin, rebellious to God.
Like I said, hermaneutical assumptions, you have not attempted to see past your own, and therefore you will not understand.
I clearly understand the assumptions you hold, and they contradict scripture.
Especially regarding
For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. (Ephesians 5:5, 6 NKJV)
I would imagine with your hermaneutical assumptions in mind, you would say something such as,
"Paul means the fornicators who dont accept Jesus, and have his righteousness transferred to them don't go to heaven, but they can still fornicate and not loss their salvation"
The zoo-sexual promoting "christian" I had seen on Youtube loves your message.
Anyone besides me see anything wrong here?
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You know, I agree he wrote in the present tense, however it nowhere says he was saved while writing it, no where, show me where in Romans 7 it says he was saved, because it is my belief that being sold under sin, directly means being a slave of sin, as in not saved.
Given Paul is speaking of himself at the present time we may draw only one conclusion, he was writing as a man who is carnal, and sold under sin. That is an expression for, not saved.
Clearly if anything, he's an unsaved man at that point given your theory.
You must assume he's saved in order to make a "point", that doesnt exist,
It says he's carnal, sold under sin, not "carnal, and sold under Christ".
So, even so, nothing at all says he's saved not one bit, it's just illusory to conclude so, with no evidence to back it up.
Either way, the man of rom 7:14 is unsaved, whether the hypothetical 1st person literary invention of a man, or Paul himself, the passage is not in favor of the notion that you can be a child molester, or a rapist, remain sinning, and still be saved.
Yes, according to the do-nothing, lewdness gospel, rapists can go to heaven, as is, just by merely believing Jesus took their punishment.
So, its works Salvationism if you do something that your commanded to do?
The word, "works Salvationism" isnt even in the bible!
We are saved by grace, through faith, as understood to mean a living faith.
Honestly, you really believe those youth pastors who do vile sickening things get saved, not of works!
It's not "of" works in my view too.
Of meaning "from", as in my salvation is not directly from my works, it's grace through faith living by love.
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. (Galatians 5:6 NKJV)
Once you break the law, that is it, no amount of you obeying the law can erase the penalty of the law, death.
Works Salvationists in reality would try to keep the law without Christ, and try to get saved, thinking God owes them salvation, but we dont deserve it.
Christ died for us while we were still sinners, and he acted first,
So it's first and foremost by his grace we are saved, and it's through faith that works by love. The works follow the faith, if it's real faith, and the sin stops because we hate sin, and love God, and have a godly fear of him. We have forgiveness if he wants to forgive us, but he demands repentance, or does any fool think he can be forgiven in open willful rebellion towards God?
Why do you think Paul wrote:
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. (Galatians 5:16-26 NKJV)
But oh, apparently Paul just meant you dont have to stop fornicating, he just meant that unbelievers who fornicate go to hell, but if you're a believer no danger at all, God sees that fornicating christian like the Son of God in all his glory and perfection, he puts on Jesus glasses, he doesn't see wicked old perverse "believer", he sees Jesus... That is ... In your view.
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. (Galatians 6:7, 8 NKJV)
Oh but apparently Paul meant, "dont be deceived, God wears Jesus glasses so instead of him seeing you commit the worst vile sins on the planet, he sees perfect Jesus" ... "And sowing to the flesh doesnt refer to galatians 5 in that list provided about flesh vs spirit... Flesh means " trying to do it and earn your salvation by stopping your sins" and sowing to the spirit means "trusting in Jesus, oh, no, not stopping sin, thats evil, it means continuing in sin, not trusting in our righteousness, but Jesus"
No where does it say in the bible, we are credited with Jesus' righteousness, just that faith is counted, meaning imputed, if God deems so.
God is not mocked... I dont know if it can be any more of a mockery than that.
Doing the law is not Evil, Christ did the law... Evil works... In your mind it means "stopping sin", or was it more like, "trying to get saved by works"...
Evil works = sinning...
Also, it's not a sin to hold to a different hermeneutical interpretation.
It is however quite foolish to believe rapists go to heaven unrepentant, just for belief in Jesus, dead faith.
Utterly repulsive.
For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ. (Jude 1:4 NKJV)
It doesn't say, 'who turn the grace of God into a faith working by love, it says lewdness", Jesus is Saviour, but is he your Lord?
You cant accept him as saviour and deny him as Lord, and if he is your Lord, you do what he says.
Repent.
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SavedByGraceThruFaith
Regular Member
Paul was saved in Acts 9. From the time He met the Lord on the road to Damascus until the time he has his sight restored when Ananias put his hand on him and Paul is baptized is 3 days. Paul is saved during that time.
So when did Paul write Romans?
Was it before that while Paul was a persecutor of Christianity?
No.
Was it during the 3 days while he was blind?
Hard to write and the scripture said he was praying not writing.
So he wrote it while saved and the present tense in Romans 7:14-25 disproves your theory.
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Not at all, becuase I believe a person can "lose" their salvation, but actually,
And you will be hated by all for My names sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. (Matthew 10:22 NKJV)
Will be saved, apparently given Paul is the Romans wretch in rom7, he was not saved.
So, you have no points and child molestors and rapists who "believe in Jesus" still continuing in their criminal vile sins, do NOT inherit the kingdom.
Stop avoiding it, they go to hell.
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There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. (Romans 8:1-17 NKJV)
This means I'm right.
Also, child molestors still go to hell, even if they "believe" in Jesus and call him Lord.
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matthew 7:21-23 NKJV)
You who practice lawlessness, btw, doesnt refer to "trying to obey God and not trusting in Jesus righteousness transplanted to you"...
It means violating the law of God, for example child molestors, adulterers, thieves, drunkards, homosexuals, etc.
Even Paul says so.
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. (Galatians 5:16-25 NKJV)
If you live by the Spirit, you are not under the law, but you who live by the flesh, you ARE under the law.
This means I'm right.
Also, child molestors still go to hell, even if they "believe" in Jesus and call him Lord.
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matthew 7:21-23 NKJV)
You who practice lawlessness, btw, doesnt refer to "trying to obey God and not trusting in Jesus righteousness transplanted to you"...
It means violating the law of God, for example child molestors, adulterers, thieves, drunkards, homosexuals, etc.
Even Paul says so.
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. (Galatians 5:16-25 NKJV)
If you live by the Spirit, you are not under the law, but you who live by the flesh, you ARE under the law.
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SavedByGraceThruFaith
Regular Member
But Romans 7:14-25 is against your belief.
How do I practice lawlessness?
Please list all the known proven accusations against me, or are you doing evil surmising.
You use corrupted Bible.
You tried to dance around Romans 7:14-25.
You invent accusations against nameless people.
Paul spoke of your just damnation. There were people who wanted to attack the gospel of salvation by grace through faith and slander Paul saying is was the equivalent of saying let's do evil.
Romans 3:8
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
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SavedByGraceThruFaith
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But you do not do His commandments.
Mark 10:17-22
17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
Do you have any possessions?
Have you not sinned?
Did you follow Jesus Christ to the cross?
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ananda
Early Buddhist
Your statement and questions are based on your assumptions about my canon which I do not hold.
I do not believe Mark's or Luke's gospels are primary witnesses, whereas Matthew's and John's are. Therefore, my belief is that Matthew's & John's first-hand accounts supersedes the second-hand witness of Mark and Luke.
In this particular case, Matthew records the following: "Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me." Matthew's record does not have the word "πάντα" (all) or "ὅσα" (whatsoever) as interpolated in Mark and Luke.
Matthew's account states "sell what you have", but does not say "sell all that you have". This makes more sense than Luke's & Mark's account, as Messiah Himself owned possessions (e.g. robes with tzitzits); He did not sell all that He had while on earth, but He owned few.
As for myself, I am in the process of minimizing myself, so thanks for asking!
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SavedByGraceThruFaith
Regular Member
Romans 2:1
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
Romans 3:9
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:12
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Romans 3:20-26
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
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