Does man have a freewill ?

[Brightfame52]

@Spiritual Jew

In that case, all babies would be condemned to hell immediately upon being born.

They are born condemned to hell if they not elect. They are born sinful

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Back to post #15 again.

Already addressed. That post is meaningless and proves nothing. Is that all you have? Why will you not address my post 157? Because you can't?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

@Spiritual Jew



They are born condemned to hell if they not elect. They are born sinful

That's total nonsense. How can a baby sin? Calvinism defies all logic.

Paul taught that he was not dead in sin until he became aware of what sin is.

Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

@Spiritual Jew



jeremiah last I checked is scripture Jer 17:9

9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Man needs a new heart, the heart contains the will, so he needs a new will, for naturally its incurably wicked. No sense talking about anything else if you reject that

Man needs a new heart in order to live the way God wants him to, but never does it say that man needs a new heart in order to recognize his sin and his need to repent and put his faith in Jesus instead of himself. You read things into scripture that aren't there. That verse means all people are sinners, but Jesus calls all sinners to repentance (Matthew 9:13). You make a fool out of Jesus by claiming that some sinners are not able to answer His call to repent.

 

[Brightfame52]

That's not what "free will" means, though. "Free will" and "desire" are philosophically (and we're in the philosophical realm here) different things. What you cannot physically manifest is not within your free will.

The fact that a prisoner cannot will himself to be free does mean he does not have free will.

Neither can a dead person will themselves alive !

 

[Brightfame52]

That's total nonsense. How can a baby sin? Calvinism defies all logic.

Paul taught that he was not dead in sin until he became aware of what sin is.

Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

The baby doesnt have to sin, he is sinful.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

What you mean how ? How was Adam accountable to the Law God gave him ?

Adam had free will and could choose to follow God's law or not. Was my question too hard for you to answer? What exactly do you think all people are accountable to God for in terms of what all people are capable of doing and why does that not include repentance and faith?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The baby doesnt have to sin, he is sinful.

That is utter nonsense! Scripture never teaches this insanity. A baby is not capable of sinning, so you can't say that a baby is sinful. Your beliefs defy all logic and are completely ludicrous.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Neither can a dead person will themselves alive !

No, but any sick person can recognize and acknowledge that they can't heal themselves and call on the physician for healing.

Mark 2:16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? 17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

 

[Brightfame52]

That is utter nonsense! Scripture never teaches this insanity. A baby is not capable of sinning, so you can't say that a baby is sinful. Your beliefs defy all logic and are completely ludicrous.

Babies aren't born righteous, but sinful. Being a baby doesnt make one righteous, Jesus does that by His Obedience Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

being born a sinful baby doesnt trump What Christs obedience does. Other than that, none is righteous even babies Rom 3:10

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Maybe Paul should have wrote:

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one except babies

 

[Brightfame52]

No, but any sick person can recognize and acknowledge that they can't heal themselves and call on the physician for healing.

Mark 2:16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? 17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

A person is dead in sin. What they need ?

 

[Paleouss]

That is utter nonsense! Scripture never teaches this insanity. A baby is not capable of sinning, so you can't say that a baby is sinful. Your beliefs defy all logic and are completely ludicrous

Greetings Spiritual Jew. Grace and hope to you brother.

As I understand it, the traditional Jewish coming of age for a boy was/is 13 (?). Not sure if this is different for the girl.

Although I do believe in a formulation of Original Sin (the grip of the power of sin over creation and mankind). I think in Ezekiel it says something about sons not bearing the guilt of their fathers.

(Eze 18:20 NKJV) 20 "The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

I want to say there is a verse in the OT about the coming of age and sin. But I can't recall it at this moment.


Peace to you brother

 

[bling]

Yes, the will may be free in its scope of desire. But if it cannot ever translate into action, we must ask: is it a freedom that matters?

If freedom of will means simply the ability to want something, regardless of whether it can be achieved, then this is a very minimal definition of free will. Most philosophers argue that free will must include the ability to make meaningful choices among real options—not just wish for something impossible. To the degree that moral agents cannot manifest their wills, their wills are determined by outside forces, such as even lack of knowledge.

The only philosophers still talking about "free will" are Christians. Non-theistic philosophers have settled on some degree of determinism in which even impossible desires are to some extent determined by outside factors.

Our choices do not have to be acted upon. God judges our hearts. We can die before having the opportunity to share the gospel with a particular person, but it is still a good thought.

 

[RDKirk]

Our choices do not have to be acted upon. God judges our hearts. We can die before having the opportunity to share the gospel with a particular person, but it is still a good thought.

That has nothing to do with whether we have free will.

 

[Rose_bud]

It should be quoted if it correlates with the Truth. Jesus quoted it, Paul quoted it, Peter quoted it and on an on. All proof texting is evil, it has positive aspects as well. And you remember all this stuff you talking now the next time you quote one scripture to make a point.

If it's relevant to the point and in context. Of course they quoted it, considering the context. Not cherry-picking or proof-texting.

I do try to keep these things in mind when engaging scripture, and if someone points out to me... Hey, you proof texting – don't do that. I'll say, Please show me where and how I am doing so. I'll then engage with the text, see where I am wrong and where I can learn or alternatively say I don't think so because of x, y and z.

 

[Rose_bud]

Man is not born in a spiritually neutral state.
We are all born spiritually "dead in trespasses and sins" (Eph 2:1), by nature, objects of wrath (Eph 2:3), unable to make spiritual responses, judged and condemned already (Jn 3:18).
"Whoever believes in the Son of Man is not condemned, but whoever does not believe in him is condemned already." (Jn 3:18)

Only those who believe in the Son have their condemnation removed.

That being said, we must be spiritually reborn by the sovereign will (as unaccountable as the wind, Jn 3:6-8) of the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:3-5), depending on nothing but his sovereign choice to do so (Jn 3:6-8), in order to make the spiritual choice to believe.

If you believe, it is because the Holy Spirit has regenerated you, from spiritual death into eternal life in the new birth, giving you to believe.

Keeping in mind that all mankind
is born (spiritually) dead in trespasses and sin (Eph 2:1),
by nature objects of God's wrath (Eph 2:3), and
must be reborn into eternal life by his Holy Spirit in order to become children of God (Jn 3:3-5).

I'm not saying that it is by our own effort we attain salvation. Or that we are solely responsible for our reconciliation with God. I'm saying we have the choice to respond to God's initiative. He is still the source. We, by our own volition, act on God's initiative. Consider the parable of the prodigal son. Consider the circumstances under which he came (Luke 15:14). He exhausted his resources, and there was a famine... The famine should give pause... because it is something beyond his control. So he becomes in need. Finally he came to his senses and made the right choice.

Everything God does is to bring us to a point of response. Even his judgement or wrath is redemptive until it no longer is to the person who refuses.

Yes, regeneration is the work of the Holy Spirit. But God's sustaining power is what keeps the earth on its axis and all people alive (believer and unbeliever).

The fact that we are living beings is because the Creator God has done this. It's why we can tell an unbeliever who asks, Who and where is God? Who does He think has given him/her life? Muslims/Buddhists, etc., are not walking this earth because they are animated by their own power; it's still His doing... unless you think it's not God who authors life. He makes it rain on the just and unjust.

Yes, regeneration is the Spirit's work and also God's desire to empower all people to align their will with His. But we have some responsibility to accept His provision for this.

I'd also be cautious of creating a dichotomy between the spiritual and natural as if God has no interest in those not yet in the fold. It's precisely his common grace as a good God that leads to or is the catalyst for repentance.

 

[bling]

That has nothing to do with whether we have free will.

Our thoughts are free so we have free will and God judges what we are thinking.

 

[Jerry N.]

Babies aren't born righteous, but sinful. Being a baby doesnt make one righteous, Jesus does that by His Obedience Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

being born a sinful baby doesnt trump What Christs obedience does. Other than that, none is righteous even babies Rom 3:10

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Maybe Paul should have wrote:

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one except babies

Romans 3:10, which states, "None is righteous, no, not one." This was not written for babies whose angels see the face of God (Matt 18:10). Nobody reading this verse in Paul’s time would have thought it included babies. Babies don’t yet have free will, which is the ability to do what God doesn’t want them to do. God wants us to do what He wants because we love Him, but we have the choice to do otherwise. We are not righteous, because we resist God’s will and make our will more important. This is the universal unrighteousness of mankind. It is a vanity and a form of idolatry. I have heard people say “I am my own god.” This is what we do when we sin. I might also point out that we don’t know what happens in the resurrection. Do babies look and act like babies or are they mature humans? What happened in between? It is also cruel to imply that some babies go to hell. Nobody in their right mind would tell a grieving parent that their baby might have gone to hell. Maybe they mature someplace and make a choice, but we have no indication of that.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Does man have a freewill ?

I'm not asking does man have a will, sure he does. God created man with a will, and man has a responsible and accountable will that God gave him at creation. However the question remains, does man have a freewill ?

Man though he has a will, his will isn't free from Gods Sovereign Will and Purpose. Mans will is always subservient to Gods Sovereign Purpose !

I'm going to share some scripture which without doubt, indicate that mans will is subservient to Gods Will of Purpose.

Dan 4:34-35

34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?


Prov 16:9

9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

Prov 19:21

21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.

Jer 10:23

23 O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

These are just a few verses, there are many more !

Our free will is limited and restrained by our sin nature, so while can still chose to do things, there are certain things we will never desire to do on our own

 

[Jerry N.]

Our free will is limited and restrained by our sin nature, so while can still chose to do things, there are certain things we will never desire to do on our own

Our free will is also limited by survival and the laws of nature. It is also limited by love, but we still have free will.