Does man have a freewill ?

[Brightfame52]

Does man have a freewill ?

I'm not asking does man have a will, sure he does. God created man with a will, and man has a responsible and accountable will that God gave him at creation. However the question remains, does man have a freewill ?

Man though he has a will, his will isn't free from Gods Sovereign Will and Purpose. Mans will is always subservient to Gods Sovereign Purpose !

I'm going to share some scripture which without doubt, indicate that mans will is subservient to Gods Will of Purpose.

Dan 4:34-35

34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?


Prov 16:9

9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

Prov 19:21

21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.

Jer 10:23

23 O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

These are just a few verses, there are many more !

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Does man have a freewill ?

I'm not asking does man have a will, sure he does. God created man with a will, and man has a responsible and accountable will that God gave him at creation. However the question remains, does man have a freewill ?

Man though he has a will, his will isn't free from Gods Sovereign Will and Purpose. Mans will is always subservient to Gods Sovereign Purpose !

I'm going to share some scripture which without doubt, indicate that mans will is subservient to Gods Will of Purpose.

Dan 4:34-35

34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?


Prov 16:9

9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

Prov 19:21

21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.

Jer 10:23

23 O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

These are just a few verses, there are many more !

Repackaging Calvinisim? Thanks for sharing!
Be blessed.

 

[bling]

Everyone agrees that we do not have the free will to fly around the room by our own power, so we are limited in our choices. We can be extremely limited by our physical and environmental condition, but could every mature adult mentally make just one free will choice outside of these limitations and thus be a choice of his own discretion?

You define “free will” as: the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.

I would add “to act” this “or think”, since thinking can be a mental action, since we are focusing on “one’s own discretion”.

A slave is extremely limited to what he wills to do, with a slave of satan always acting with a selfish motive and not being able to keep from the action of sinning, although like Paul in Ro. 7 might personally desire not to sin. Even though most of the time the sinner selfishly personally desires to sin, can He/she for a moment be like Paul in Ro. 7 and not want to sin, even though they go on and sin?

You are the slave of who you are following (which is a choice), so can you just stop following satan for a moment?



Does God have the power and Love to allow mature adult humans to truly make very limited (maybe just one) autonomous free will choices to accept or reject God’s pure charity, which will enable the human to become like God himself in that the human obtains the free unconditional gift of Godly type Love (Luke 7)?

Did God granted a very limited autonomous free will choice to Adam and Eve and if so why could God not do the same for all mature adults?

God can still be autonomous by autonomously choosing to allow humans one autonomous free will choice within the Limits His choosing?

Just as the prodigal son on his own did nothing worthy of anything, yet was brought to his senses by his own actions and made the free will choice return to the Father, can we (and really will we) be brought to our senses at least once, while in our mature adult situation, to decide to be macho and stay in the pigsty of life where we deserve to be or humbly turn to the Father we have hurt and ask for just some kind of undeserving existence, out of our selfish motivation?

A mature adult sinful nonbeliever cannot “do” anything righteous, worthy, spiritual or even unselfish, but does that also mean the sinful person, in this dead state, could not humbly accept pure charity for selfish reasons?

 

[trophy33]

Everyone agrees that we do not have the free will to fly around the room by our own power, so we are limited in our choices.

But will is not limited to realistic options. We can will or want things that are not in our power. For example a prisoner may will to be free.

 

[bling]

But will is not limited to realistic options. We can will or want things that are not in our power. For example a prisoner may will to be free.

Part of my point is what you are saying. Having free will does not mean we do what we might freely desire, since doing would go against what God wills, but we still have free will.

 

[Clare73]

Does man have a freewill ?
I'm not asking does man have a will, sure he does. God created man with a will, and man has a responsible and accountable will that God gave him at creation. However the question remains, does man have a freewill ?
Man though he has a will, his will isn't free from Gods Sovereign Will and Purpose. Mans will is always subservient to Gods Sovereign Purpose !
I'm going to share some scripture which without doubt, indicate that mans will is subservient to Gods Will of Purpose.
Dan 4:34-35
34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?


Prov 16:9

9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

Prov 19:21

21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.

Jer 10:23

23 O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

These are just a few verses, there are many more !

Well, we can start with Jesus who said man is a slave to sin (Jn 8:34). . .slaves are not free.

Man's will is not free to make all moral choices. . .he cannot choose to be sinless.
Man's will is free to choose what he prefers. . . which in unregenerate man is self over submission to God.

 

[Brightfame52]

Repackaging Calvinisim? Thanks for sharing!
Be blessed.

You mean the truth which you package off as calvinism. God sees that

 

[BBAS 64]

Good day,

Sure does reading Edwards on the subject right now:

From Freedom of the will.

"You may think that there is no great need to take trouble to define or describe the will, because the word ‘will’ is generally as well understood as any other words we might use to explain it. You would be right if it weren’t for the fact that scientists, philosophers, and polemical preachers have thrown the will into darkness by the things they have said about it. But that is the fact; so I think it may be of some use, and will increase my chances of being clear throughout this book, if I say a few things concerning it. Well, then: setting aside metaphysical subtleties, the will is that by which the mind chooses anything. The •faculty of the will is the power of, or source in, the mind by which it is capable of choosing; an •act of the will is an act of choosing or choice. If you think the will is better defined by saying that it is that by which the soul either chooses or refuses, I’ll settle for that; though I don’t think we need to add ‘or refuses’, for in every act of will the mind chooses one thing rather than another; it chooses something rather than the absence or non-existence of that thing. So in every act of •refusal the mind •chooses the absence of the thing refused, so that refusing is just a special case of choosing.... So that whatever names we give to the act of the will— ‘choosing’, ‘refusing’, ‘approving’, ‘disapproving’, ‘lik ing’, ‘disliking’, ‘embracing’, ‘rejecting’, ‘determining’, ‘directing’, ‘commanding’, ‘forbidding’, ‘inclining’, ‘be ing averse to’, ‘being pleased with’, ‘being displeased with’ —they all come down to choosing.... Locke says: ‘The will signifies nothing but a power or ability to prefer or choose."

RC Sproul addresses the free-will question and confirms we have a free-will:

In Him

Bill

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Does man have a freewill ?

I'm not asking does man have a will, sure he does. God created man with a will, and man has a responsible and accountable will that God gave him at creation. However the question remains, does man have a freewill ?

Man though he has a will, his will isn't free from Gods Sovereign Will and Purpose. Mans will is always subservient to Gods Sovereign Purpose !

I'm going to share some scripture which without doubt, indicate that mans will is subservient to Gods Will of Purpose.

Dan 4:34-35

34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?


Prov 16:9

9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

Prov 19:21

21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.

Jer 10:23

23 O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

These are just a few verses, there are many more !

Of course man's will is subservient to God's will. That's obvious. Was your point to only state something obvious here or are you intending to say something beyond the obvious?

It was God's will, not man's will, to give man free will and make him responsible to choose whether or not to repent. Scripture is clear that man has no excuse to not repent of his sins and to instead give glory to God and be thankful to Him rather than giving glory to things God created and rebelling against Him instead (Romans 1:18-32). The only way it can make sense that man has no excuse for not repenting of his sins and glorifying God is if he has the free will to choose whether or not to repent and to not glorify God. God punishes those who do not repent and glorify Him. The only way it makes sense that He would punish people for not repenting and glorifying Him is if they have the ability and the free will to choose to repent and glorify Him or to rebel against Him instead. He would not just punish people for no reason. He punishes them for not doing what He expects them to do and makes them responsible to do (repent and believe).

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Well, we can start with Jesus who said man is a slave to sin (Jn 8:34). . .slaves are not free.

What is your point? Jesus said that to Jews who believed in Him.

John 8:31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” 33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?” 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.

They believed in Him while still slaves to sin. They needed to learn how to be set free from sin. In Calvinism, sinners are totally depraved and not able to believe in Jesus while they are in slavery to sin and they first need to be regenerated and set free from sin before they can believe. But, that is not what scripture teaches. Jesus did not call the righteous, but rather called unregenerate sinners to repentance (Luke 5:32). He expected them to repent even while they were unregenerate sinners.

Man's will is not free to make all moral choices. . .he cannot choose to be sinless.
Man's will is free to choose what he prefers. . . which in unregenerate man is self over submission to God.

Again, Jesus calls unregenerate sinners to repentance. You act as if man has to be regenerated in order to choose to submit to God, but scripture never teaches that.

Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Do you think that God expects unregenerate man to glorify Him as God and to give thanks to Him for what He has done and that unregenerate man has no excuse for not doing so?

 

[bling]

Well, we can start with Jesus who said man is a slave to sin (Jn 8:34). . .slaves are not free.

Man's will is not free to make all moral choices. . .he cannot choose to be sinless.
Man's will is free to choose what he prefers. . . which in unregenerate man is self over submission to God.

That is not right. Slaves can make mental free will choices, but just not be able to physically do them, that is the same for all mature adults.
Paul wanted to be "sinless" in Romans 7 before he had the indwelling Holy Spirit, but in Romans 8, he explains what we need.
The idea of doing what you want, yet God controlling your wants, is the same as saying it is God's will and not your free will choice. Yes, God can force you to do most anything, but in the God gifted limited free will you do have, you are allowed to think what you want to do and you are responsible for those thoughts.

 

[jacks]

We are responsible for our thoughts and actions. Otherwise you are just substituting; "The devil made me do it." with "God made me do it." We've been given a choice, make the wise one.

 

[public hermit]

We can certainly make choices, but they are only free in so far as they are good. And, they are only free in so far as they are commensurate with the divine will. Pace Meister Eckhart, if I only desire and do the divine will, then God must do whatever I desire. That is true freedom. "Find your delight in the Lord, and God will give you the desire of your heart." Psalm 37:4

 

[fhansen]

Does man have a freewill ?

I'm not asking does man have a will, sure he does. God created man with a will, and man has a responsible and accountable will that God gave him at creation. However the question remains, does man have a freewill ?

Man though he has a will, his will isn't free from Gods Sovereign Will and Purpose. Mans will is always subservient to Gods Sovereign Purpose !

I'm going to share some scripture which without doubt, indicate that mans will is subservient to Gods Will of Purpose.

Dan 4:34-35

34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?


Prov 16:9

9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

Prov 19:21

21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.

Jer 10:23

23 O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

These are just a few verses, there are many more !

You just to have to ask if man is a morally accountable being or not, if he can choose between right or wrong, a higher or lower moral path, or not. Or is he just some morally unaccountable beast?

 

[Clare73]

What is your point? Jesus said that to Jews who believed in Him.
John 8:31 To the Jews who had believed him,

Note the past tense. . .

Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” 33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?” 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
They believed in Him while still slaves to sin. They needed to learn how to be set free from sin. In Calvinism, sinners are totally depraved and not able to believe in Jesus while they are in slavery to sin and they first need to be regenerated and set free from sin before they can believe.

But, that is not what scripture teaches. Jesus did not call the righteous, but rather called unregenerate sinners to repentance (Luke 5:32). He expected them to repent even while they were unregenerate sinners.
Again, Jesus calls unregenerate sinners to repentance. You act as if man has to be regenerated in order to choose to submit to God, but scripture never teaches that.

No one can see the kingdom of God (much less enter it) unless he is born again (Jn 3:3).

The unregenerate do not believe in Jesus Christ (Jn 8:31, 44, 47).
They are spiritually dead and must be raised to eternal life in order to be able to spiritually see the kingdom of God.

Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. . .

Do you think that God expects unregenerate man to glorify Him as God and to give thanks to Him for what He has done and that unregenerate man has no excuse for not doing so?

And herein lies your problem. . .your fallen human reason, rather than God's revelation above, governs your understanding of Scripture.

What doth the Scripture say (Ro 4:3) in Ro 1:20 above?

That is the answer to your question.

 

[Brightfame52]

Mans will isnt free from our sin nature, we are servants of sin naturally Jn 8:34

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Folks we are all by nature sinners, so we commit sin, hence we are servants or slaves of sins The word servant doulos means slave. Jesus uses the present tense is esti being actually a slave of sin, and this is even applying to very religious people ! We cant just exercise our freewill and stop being a slave to sin, it takes actual liberation.

Jesus told some more people Jn 8:44

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Jesus tells these people they will do the lust of their father the devil, they dont have a freewill choice not to do it. " ye will do" is present tense indicative, its certain that is all they will be doing, they are slaves to sin.

 

[Clare73]

That is not right.

I guess Jesus got it wrong in Jn 8:34.

Slaves can make mental free will choices,

Can anyone choose to be sinless?

Then they are not free.

but just not be able to physically do them, that is the same for all mature adults.
Paul wanted to be "sinless" in Romans 7 before he had the indwelling Holy Spirit, but in Romans 8, he explains what we need.
The idea of doing what you want, yet God controlling your wants, is the same as saying it is God's will and not your free will choice. Yes, God can force you to do most anything, but in the God gifted limited free will you do have, you are allowed to think what you want to do and you are responsible for those thoughts.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Spiritual Jew

Of course man's will is subservient to God's will. That's obvious. Was your point to only state something obvious here or are you intending to say something beyond the obvious?

It must not be too obvious since many in religion advocate mans freewill. Its not true, thats my point

 

[Brightfame52]

You just to have to ask if man is a morally accountable being or not, if he can choose between right or wrong, a higher or lower moral path, or not. Or is he just some morally unaccountable beast?

Man is not free from being morally responsible to God, yet he is not free from his depraved nature, and cant stop sinning against God and accumulate guilt, unfortunately he is a slave to sin, and yet morally responsible.

 

[BBAS 64]

What is your point? Jesus said that to Jews who believed in Him.

John 8:31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” 33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?” 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.

They believed in Him while still slaves to sin. They needed to learn how to be set free from sin. In Calvinism, sinners are totally depraved and not able to believe in Jesus while they are in slavery to sin and they first need to be regenerated and set free from sin before they can believe. But, that is not what scripture teaches. Jesus did not call the righteous, but rather called unregenerate sinners to repentance (Luke 5:32). He expected them to repent even while they were unregenerate sinners.


Again, Jesus calls unregenerate sinners to repentance. You act as if man has to be regenerated in order to choose to submit to God, but scripture never teaches that.

Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Do you think that God expects unregenerate man to glorify Him as God and to give thanks to Him for what He has done and that unregenerate man has no excuse for not doing so?

Good Day, SJ

The call to repent is a command of God.

Rom 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.
Rom 8:8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

Unregenerate man ( Flesh) does not because it can not submit to God's law ( command).

Those that are born of the Spirit (regeneration ( born-again)) are not unregenerate (flesh). Because God has removed their heart of stone and put His Spirit in them and caused them to obey His statues which includes the command to repent and believe.

Can you tell me what would be the cause a man to love the darkness he loves and love the light he hates?

In Him,

Bill