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Featured Does Israel get taken over again?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by DoubleJ23, Dec 10, 2017.

  1. DoubleJ23

    DoubleJ23 New Member

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    Hello

    I have a question for all you bible readers. I wanted to know if Israel ever loses a war or gets conquered/taken over by another country in the future.
     
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  2. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    There will be a very very bad horrible war killing more people than ever before as surrounding nations try to take over Israel but they fail to do so , so no Israel will not be taken over again
     
  3. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I would say "yes" - but not until well into the 70th week of Daniel 9. The foreign to Israel armies of the beast will be occupying most of Israel and Jerusalem during the second half of the seven years, enforcing the rule of the beast during that time, which also the image of the beast will be in the temple (forthcoming).

    Revelation 11:
    2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.


    Parts of Israel, the mountain regions will be protected from incursion by the beast's army, by supernatural means.


    Revelation 12:
    14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

    15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

    16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2017
  4. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    My reference is pertaining to as no other country will take over the land of Israel and occupy the land as their own land , as has happened in the past . During a coming war enemies will occupy the land but don't take ownership of the land. The USA has occupied other countries during times of war but did not take ownership of the land

    When major war breaks out the Lord will return shortly afterward and overcome all Israel enemies , severe hardship is coming to Israel but results in the Lord returning as well
     
  5. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    There are no future wars, as we know them. Ezekiel 7:14
    The next prophesied event will be the Psalms 83 sudden destruction, 2 Thessalonians 5:3, that will virtually depopulate the entire Middle East. Amos 1:6-8, Isaiah 17:1, Jeremiah 49:23-27, Ezekiel 30:1-5, and Judah too will be uprooted; Jeremiah 12:14, Isaiah 22:14, Romans 9:27
     
  6. A71

    A71 Well-Known Member

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    No. I don't think so. I think we have reached the climax of prophecy, and I would expect to see in the coming years a reestablishment of the Temple and Levitical rites, which will usher our Lord's return
     
  7. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If there is a war just before the start of Daniel's symbolic "one week", I believe it would be a war to try and fool those who understand Bible prophecy. Antiochus Epiphanes literally almost... fulfilled the Daniel 11 verses, but not all, which means Antiochus can only serve as a blueprint to go by.

    The false king of the world for the end is to come to power in Jerusalem peaceably. Antiochus took Jerusalem by storm.
     
  8. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    70th Week of Daniel:

    Daniel chapter 9 is the timeline of the New Covenant Messiah revealed by the angel Gabriel. Daniel was reading from the Book of Jeremiah when the angel appeared. The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah is found in Jeremiah 31:31-34. Were the 490 years completed during the first century?



    The following comes from the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America. It reflects the understanding of Bible scholars of that time.



    Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.

    Daniel 9:27
    And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    (a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

    (b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

    (c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

    Based on what is found in the 1599 Geneva Bible, Daniel 9:27 is a reference to the New Covenant fulfilled during the first century. Christ told the Jewish leadership that their house would be left “desolate” in Matthew 23:38. The scriptural reference beside of Daniel 9:27 in my NKJV Bible is Matthew 26:28, which refers to the New Covenant of Christ.



    Daniel 9:24 is a summary of the 70 weeks prophecy. What evidence do we have that it was fulfilled during the first century?



    Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

    Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

    Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
    Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
    Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

    God anointed His Son at His baptism.

    Christ is the New Covenant Messiah who made an end of sin and made reconciliation for iniquity at Calvary.

    Therefore, Christ fulfilled the summary of Daniel 9:24 almost 2,000 years ago.



    Was there a period of about 7 years when the Gospel was taken first to Daniel’s people during the first century, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles?

    It is commonly believed by many Bible scholars that Christ’s earthly ministry lasted about 3 ½ years.


    Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
    Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
    Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

    In the passage above Christ sent the twelve first to preach the Gospel to Israel.


    Gal 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
    Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
    Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
    Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
    Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

    In the passage above Paul reveals that it was about 3 years after his conversion before he began his ministry to the Gentiles.



    3 ½ years + time from Calvary to the stoning of Stephen + 3 years = ?



    Was the Gospel taken to Daniel’s people for about 7 years, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles?


    Many modern Christians have been taught that the 70th week of Daniel lies in the future. They have never been presented with the idea that Daniel 9:27 is about the New Covenant fulfilled in the Blood of Christ at Calvary. Are we to believe that the angel Gabriel came to reveal the timeline of the New Covenant Messiah and then forgot to mention the New Covenant?



    Have some taken this verse and turned it into an antichrist verse by adding an antichrist not found in the chapter? Can anyone show a singular antecedent in the chapter for an antichrist? Is there a gap of time in the chapter of almost 2,000 years? If I agree to paint your house “after” 69 weeks, it will not be painted until the 70th week or later. If Christ was “cut off” “after” the 69 weeks was finished, it would have been during the 70th week.



    Based on the scripture found above and the understanding found in the notes of the 1599 Geneva Bible, the only way a person can see the 70th week of Daniel is in a time machine set to return them to the first century.


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  9. A71

    A71 Well-Known Member

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    Christ is High Priest and King...as per the Melchizedek order.

    He was rejected by the Jews as their King...(Christos means anointed; i.e the anointed King Of Israel).....and still is.

    Apostate Jewry (under the Levitical priesthood) still seeks an earthly Davidic King to enthrone in the 3rd Temple in place of ( Greek: 'anti') Christ.
     
  10. A71

    A71 Well-Known Member

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    Yup. Daniel's 70th week is long gone. It was actually fulfilled in the Roman Judea war of AD 67-73.

    Modern teaching (aka Futurism) is total bunk, and I say that with God as my witness.
     
  11. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    amil is total bunk, to say all has happened when it has not yet been fulfilled shows that way of thinking falls way short of accuracy

    anything that has not happened is ignored or called an allegory simply cause amil refuse to acknowledge God determines when the end comes,

    Rev13
    16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

    17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

    18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

    this specific man has not yet been revealed , no not yet!
     
  12. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    Depends on what you call war , the climax of Jesus return is to destroy the enemies of Israel who have waged war on Israel , God Himself causes this waging of war on Israel to magnify HIMSELF over all of creation to show mankind who HE is , it is to fulfill HIS purpose ,
    this is the fulfillment of what Israel is waiting on The Messiah coming to their rescue , for if Jesus does not come all people would die
     
  13. A71

    A71 Well-Known Member

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    @seventysevens
    I am vaguely familiar with these terms, but they tend to be somewhat simplistic. I think most people fall into Futurist or Historicist camps, with some fringe Preterists out there also...

    Historicism is correct actually. Futurism is real bunk, and Preterism is a bit mad and not to be confused with Historicism!!
     
  14. A71

    A71 Well-Known Member

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    My personal take on Historicism is that Daniel prophecied up to AD96 , with some strands running further forward, and then Revelation takes up where Daniel leaves off, and carries on the continuum of prophetic history.
     
  15. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Your opinion is just following a tradition from men. The Daniel subject of the transgression of desolation involving a temple in Jerusalem is not that difficult. God made it even easier to understand by giving us the blueprint of Antiochus Epiphanes in 165 B.C. who took Jerusalem, went inside the temple and sacrificed swine upon the altar and spreading its broth inside the temple, and then setting up an idol to Zeus in false worship. When Jesus quoted the "abomination of desolation" subject from the Book of Daniel while warning of it being placed in the holy place (inside a temple), the below Daniel verses about it made it plain what event He was talking about...

    Dan 8:11-14
    11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.


    12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.


    13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?


    14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
    KJV

    Dan 9:27
    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    KJV

    Dan 11:31
    31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

    KJV

    Dan 12:9-12
    9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

    10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

    11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.


    12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
    KJV
     
  16. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Your opinion on that is what is "bunk", and I am not a Futurist, nor Historisist, nor Preterist, nor any of the sort one may pull from useless seminary labels.

    Following the simplicity that is written in God's Word is how understanding His Truth comes, not by men's traditions.
     
  17. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    It might or might seem to, or might (more likely) be 'taken over' from within (by others in the government/ corporations/ religious errors/ ) (maybe already taken over in fact, but eventually to be set free) ....... (realize the world wide babylon probably controls most of what happens politically, economically, socially, and pharmeutically (fake medicine), everywhere already ) ...

    but as I learned long ago, Before Israel (Jerusalem) is overrun, just at the last possible moment,

    they all with one heart and soul and mind and voice cry out "BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME ADONAI"
    and
    Messiah Yeshua Immediately Returns to save them,
    simply opens His mouth (perhaps something not so simple, but just as easy)
    and the enemy peoples, all the weapons also, BURst INTO FLAMES !

    WONDERFUL SAVIOR ! GREAT MESSIAH ! PRINCE OF PEACE ! KING OF THE JEWS !
     
  18. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The nation state of Israel will be taken over spiritually by the coming false one of 2 Thess.2 that Apostle Paul warned of:

    2 Thess 2:3-4
    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


    4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    KJV

    That temple of God points directly to a standing temple in Jerusalem. Exalting himself as God over all that is 'called' God, or that is worshiped, means over all religious groups on the earth. For orthodox Jews, that can only be the Messiah they expect (but secretly he won't be the true Messiah Jesus Christ).

    Jesus gave this warning of that false one coming to Jerusalem at the end in His Olivet Discourse, and once again in final in His Revelation through John (Matt.24:23-26; Rev.13:11-17).
     
  19. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Does this mean, or rather is it even possible, that they or any other country is not already under the prince of the power of the air? .... though not the same yet as it will be .....
     
  20. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    If you are taking these things in a literal sense in 2 Thess 2, IMO that's the wrong way to take it. Jerusalem is not even mentioned anywhere in that chapter, nor are ethnics Jews mentioned in that chapter. This prophecy involves the church and those of faith falling away, and not a literal temple in literal Jerusalem involving ethnic Jews instead. The latter is reading things into the text not present in the text.
     
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