Does God torture people forever? NOPE!

[Steve Petersen]

Revelation 14:11
Revelation 20:10

Tormented forever.

Mark 9:44
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

So would YOU condemn someone to eternal torture for the sins they committed in life?

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[CodyFaith]

So would YOU condemn someone to eternal torture for the sins they committed in life?

I am not God.

Will I accept that people will be condemned to an eternal torment by God? Yes, because God has said it. Do I understand it completely? Of course not, I don't think anybody does. We get glimpses of just how wicked people can be though, and there are moments I believe where we can understand that hell will be indeed a just punishment.

People are not sunshine and rainbows. People can be outright disgusting and evil - and if you've never experienced wickedness in it's cold-blooded state, I don't think you have the right to judge. If you really did experience it, at least to the extent that I and others have, I doubt you'd ask that question.

And please no "but you have to forgive them and love them anyway" answer, because trust me, I already have, but I can still see why they would be punished unless they repent.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Steve Petersen]

I am not God.

Will I accept that people will be condemned to an eternal torment by God? Yes, because God has said it. Do I understand it completely? Of course not, I don't think anybody does. We get glimpses of just how wicked people can be though, and there are moments I believe where we can understand that hell will be indeed a just punishment.

People are not sunshine and rainbows. People can be outright disgusting and evil - and if you've never experienced wickedness in it's cold-blooded state, I don't think you have the right to judge. If you really did experience it, at least to the extent that I and others have, I doubt you'd ask that question.

And please no "but you have to forgive them and love them anyway" answer, because trust me, I already have, but I can still see why they would be punished unless they repent.

A simple yes or no would suffice. Do you intend to answer with a yes or no?

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[CodyFaith]

A simple yes or no would suffice. Do you intend to answer with a yes or no?

Nope. Might have answered with an explanation as to why I wouldn't, but tbh I just see now you're out for a fight.

Hell is just, is indeed real, scripture has authority, the Most High God of Israel is holy and just. He won't forget the tears shed of his saints because of the wicked people in the world. He takes vengeance on his and Israel's enemies, eternally.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Nope. Might have answered with an explanation as to why I wouldn't, but tbh I just see now you're out for a fight.

Hell is just, is indeed real, scripture has authority, the Most High God of Israel is holy and just. He won't forget the tears shed of his saints because of the wicked people in the world. He takes vengeance on his and Israel's enemies, eternally.

Hard to imagine that it is possible for the creature to be more merciful than the Creator.

 

[Der Alte]

Psalms
37:18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.
37:19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
37:21 The wicked borroweth, and payeth not again: but the righteous sheweth mercy, and giveth.
righteous - in the days of famine will eat
but the wicked -shall perish

Let us review the context of these verses and see if they support eternal annihilation of the wicked?

Psalm 37:1-2
(1) A Psalm of David. Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.
(2) For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.​

This Psalm is not about man's eternal fate but what happens to Israel's enemies in this life. They will be cut down like grass and wither like green plants. That is not annihilation.

Psalm 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. ​

Evildoers cut off like flowers and green plants, vs. 2. Israel cannot see into eternity but they can see their enemies are no longer around to attack them. That is not annihilation.

Psalm 37:14-15
(14) The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation.
(15) Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken.​

The wicked attack Israel with the sword and bow but their sword will pierce their own heart and their bow will be broken. That is not annihilation.

Psalm 37:17 For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the LORD upholdeth the righteous. ​

The arms of the wicked are broken. That is not annihilation.

Psalm 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away. ​

The wicked will consume away into smoke, in this world.

Psalm 37:22 For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.​

Those who are cursed by God will be cut off like flowers, wither like green plants, in this world., vs. 2. That is not annihilation.

Psalm 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
Psalm 37:34 Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.
Psalm 37:36 Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found.
Psalm 37:38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.​

The wicked will be cut off like flowers, wither like green plants, vs. 2. Israel cannot see into eternity but they can see what happens to their enemies in this world. That is not annihilation.

 

[mmksparbud]

They will be cut down like grass and wither like green plants. That is not annihilation.

Well it certainly isn't conscious life!!

Evildoers cut off like flowers and green plants, vs. 2. Israel cannot see into eternity but they can see their enemies are no longer around to attack them. That is not annihilation.

And you version is not what is it says!
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

The wicked shall not be---this is not talking about Israel's enemies----it is talking about evildoers.

Psa 37:1 A Psalm of David. Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.

The wicked attack Israel with the sword and bow but their sword will pierce their own heart and their bow will be broken. That is not annihilation.

Really?? Putting a sword through your heart is not annihilation?---I don't recommend you try it.

The wicked will consume away into smoke, in this world.

Funny, it doesn't say in this world. It says
Psalm 37:20 But the wicked shall perish

The wicked will be cut off like flowers, wither like green plants, vs. 2. Israel cannot see into eternity but they can see what happens to their enemies in this world. That is not annihilation

1) to reap, harvest
2) proverbial expression for sowing and reaping
3) cut off, destroy
3a) as crops are cut down with a sickle
Jos 11:21 And at that time came Joshua, and cut off the Anakims from the mountains, from Hebron, from Debir, from Anab, and from all the mountains of Judah, and from all the mountains of Israel: Joshua destroyed them utterly with their cities

Gen_9:11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth
Job 6:9 Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!
Yep---annihilation---cut off your foot and what happens to it?

 

[Der Alte]

Well it certainly isn't conscious life!!
And you version is not what is it says!
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
The wicked shall not be---this is not talking about Israel's enemies----it is talking about evildoers.

If you were to read the Psalm in context instead of picking verses out-of-context you might understand what I am talking about. Yes, they are the wicked and evildoers who "have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation. Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken." Dying by the sword and having broken arms is not eternal annihilation.

Really?? Putting a sword through your heart is not annihilation?---I don't recommend you try it.

You are confusing mortal death, which all mankind will experience, with the total annihilation that is supposed to happen to the wicked at the final judgement. The wicked attack the poor, needy and upright with sword and bow, their arms and bows are broken and their swords pierce their own hearts. They die, this is not referring to their eternal fate.

Funny, it doesn't say in this world. It says
Psalm 37:20 But the wicked shall perish.

They are killed by their own swords, that is not eternal annihilation.

1) to reap, harvest
2) proverbial expression for sowing and reaping
3) cut off, destroy
3a) as crops are cut down with a sickle

Note the major definitions refer to harvesting not eternal annihilation.

Jos 11:21 And at that time came Joshua, and cut off the Anakims from the mountains, from Hebron, from Debir, from Anab, and from all the mountains of Judah, and from all the mountains of Israel: Joshua destroyed them utterly with their cities
Gen_9:11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth
Job 6:9 Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!

Yep---annihilation---cut off your foot and what happens to it?

Death in this world, not eternal annihilation. That has been my point all along.

 

[mmksparbud]

LOL!!-----reality is not one of your favorite places to visit, is it? Death----that is the penalty for sin---the soul that sinneth it shall die--that's it. Not the soul that sinneth it shall be given eternal life to be tormented forever. The saved are given eternal life. Dance around it all you want, death is the wages of sin, not eternal life, just in a different location. But if watching people fry for eternity makes you happy---then go right ahead and you believe it.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Der Alte]

LOL!!-----reality is not one of your favorite places to visit, is it? Death----that is the penalty for sin---the soul that sinneth it shall die--that's it.

Please show me the verse(s) which say that the wages of sin is death, followed by resurrection then a second death?

Not the soul that sinneth it shall be given eternal life to be tormented forever.

Already addressed by another member. The Ezekiel quote uses "soul" to mean "person." The soul that sins shall die. The father shall not die for the sins of the son. The son shall not die for the sins of the father. Context! Context! Context!

The saved are given eternal life. Dance around it all you want, death is the wages of sin, not eternal life, just in a different location.

But if watching people fry for eternity makes you happy---then go right ahead and you believe it.

I believe what scripture says about the fate of the unrepentant not what a 19th century doctrine says.
.....In addition to the story of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16:19-32, in Isaiah 14 there is a long passage about the king of Babylon dying, and according to many the dead know nothing. They are supposedly annihilated, destroyed, gone! But God, Himself, speaking, these dead people in שאול/sheol, know something, they move, meet the dead coming to sheol, stir up, raise up, speak and say, etc.

Isaiah 14:9-11 (KJV)
9) Hell [שאול] from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10) All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11) Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, [שאול] and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
[ . . . ]
22) For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.​

In this passage God, himself is speaking, and I see a whole lot of shaking going on, moving, rising up, and speaking in . These dead people seem to know something, about something. We know that verses 11 through 14 describe actual historical events, the death of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon.
Some will try to argue that this passage is figurative because fir trees don’t literally rejoice, vs. 8. They will try to argue that the passage must be figurative since God told Israel “take up this proverb against the king of Babylon.” vs. 4. The occurrence of one figurative expression in a passage does not prove that anything else in the passage is figurative. The Hebrew word משׁל/mashal translated “proverb” does not necessarily mean something is fictional. For example Israel did not become fictional when God made them a mashal/proverb in 2 Chronicles 7:20, Psalms 44:14, and Jeremiah 24:9.
.....Here is another passage where God himself is speaking and people who are dead in sheol, speaking, being ashamed, comforted, etc.

Ezekiel 32:18-22, Ezekiel 32:30-31 (KJV)
18) Son of man, [Ezekiel] wail for the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down, even her, and the daughters of the famous nations, unto the nether parts of the earth, with them that go down into the pit.
19) Whom dost thou pass in beauty? go down, and be thou laid with the uncircumcised.
20) They shall fall in the midst of them that are slain by the sword: she is delivered to the sword: draw her and all her multitudes.
21) The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell [שאול] with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
22) Asshur is there and all her company: his graves are about him: all of them slain, fallen by the sword::[ . . . ]
Ezekiel 32:30-31
(30) There be the princes of the north, all of them, and all the Zidonians, which are gone down with the slain; with their terror they are ashamed of their might; and they lie uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword, and bear their shame with them that go down to the pit.
(31) Pharaoh shall see them, and shall be comforted over all his multitude, even Pharaoh and all his army slain by the sword, saith the Lord GOD. ​

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[mmksparbud]

Please show me the verse(s) which say that the wages of sin is death, followed by resurrection then a second death?

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
The first resurrection is the resurrection of the saved, who live with Christ for the 1000 years.
After the 1000 years the wicked are resurrected, judgement is handed out, they are punished in hell according to their works, and die--this is the 2nd death.