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Moses?
"... The Faith exhibited by Moses..." ????
Maybe you meant Abraham? Moses is NOT the father of faith.
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Moses?Everything you said is a tons of interjection into Gods word to convolute the very simplicity of The Faith exhibited by Moses into something it isn't.
Jesus said he would be "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."One more thing...When Jesus told the their "Today you will be with me in paradise", it had nothing to do with Him going to a realm called "Sheol", but says exactly what it says. Have you forgotten that Jesus IS Yahweh in Human Flesh, even while still upon the Cross?
I agreed with your post up until the last sentence.Short version: One doesn't have to know doctrine to be saved. But the doctrine that someone believes, and how they treat others who they disagree with, can be one of the indicator fruits that we are supposed to exhibit once we are saved. And, it's possible for someone to cross that line and be someone who Jesus said He never knew.
A full seminary degree is required before salvation?Maybe somebody already beat me to it, but the Bible says:
"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son." (2 John 1:9).
That was my point. When someone adds "as best they could" muddies the waters.Don't disagree but I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Simply put he had saving faith because he recognized/believed in Jesus as Messiah/Savior.
He believed savingly. It wasn't about doctrine. It was about the Person and work of Christ.He wasn't concerned about "doctrine" as he "believed as best he could" about Christ at the time of his dying.
Well, there's one example. But, yes, most people do need help in their unbelief. btw, the one example of a father concerned about his son did have faith, but he was weak in his faith.If you read your NT, there are many who cry out to Jesus to "help them in their unbelief."
Of course.Formal doctrine comes later as a believer learns/matures in Christ.
Oh, great defense. How about this one:Except you don't do this. No where in Scripture is Hades called Paradise.
To have salvation, you have to have saving faith.Soteriology is the doctrine of salvation.
Then I'm not sure you have salvation.I'm not sure there is any such thing as "saving faith".
If you don't know, you do have a problem. You call yourself "Saint Steven" and identify as a "Christian" and you don't understand these things??What kind, or how much faith do we need to be saved?
Maybe you are totally wrong. Actually, you ARE totally wrong.Maybe you are claiming a salvation by works that includes doctrine that you approve of?
Those who have NEVER believed are the ones who will be condemned.Which means the judgment will examine everyone's doctrine to see if their Soteriology is approved? If not... flames.
Careful. That's very close to a punishable offense around here.Then I'm not sure you have salvation.
Did the thief on the cross know?If you don't know, you do have a problem.
I understand just fine.You call yourself "Saint Steven" and identify as a "Christian" and you don't understand these things??
My comment was based on what YOU SAID.Careful. That's very close to a punishable offense around here.
Did the thief on the cross know?
He knew who Jesus was; the Messiah, who was returning to His kingdom. He had saving faith.Did the thief on the cross know?
No. I believe that those who believe are saved.The Bible repeatedly says those who believe are saved. That was Paul's answer to the jailer who specifically asked what he MUST DO to be saved. Do you have a different idea about how to be saved?
I laid out what saving faith is and means. You tell me.I understand just fine.
But I think I disagree with your take on it. That's all.
Does disagreeing with you revoke my salvation?
And you hold a lost person responsible to know all that before they can be saved?When "faith" is used as a noun, it refers to the "body of information" as found in the Bible.
I think this information should be used by the one leading someone to Christ. A lost individual wanting to deal with the conviction they feel needs to be led to Christ. They know nothing of doctrine typically.So, saving faith is believing what the Bible says, specifically about Jesus Christ and salvation.
Saving faith, like all 'faith', requires 2 aspects.
1. object. In saving faith, the object is the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who died on a cross for your (personal) sins.
2. goal or purpose. In saving faith, the goal or purpose of putting your full trust (belief) in the Lord Jesus Christ is to receive the gift of eternal life and be saved.
If either of these 2 aspects is different than above, you do not have saving faith, and you are not saved.
Why isn't that saving faith to you?No. I believe that those who believe are saved.
Where did I present any "formula". I explained what saving faith requires. Which of the 2 aspects do you object to?But you seem to be insisting on a specific "formula" that must be followed or it doesn't work. That's what I am objecting to.
A lost person cannot articulate this to meet your approval.Maybe you are totally wrong. Actually, you ARE totally wrong.
I claim the same salvation as found in the Bible. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who is Messiah, and who died on the cross for all of my sins, and gives me eternal life for believing in Him for it.
Do you agree or disagree with this statement?
No. That would be ridiculous. I hold every lost person responsible for understanding that God has revealed Himself in creation (Rom 1:19,20) and has no excuse for not being thankful to Him. And by such realization, I hold them responsible for seeking Him, per Acts 17:27.And you hold a lost person responsible to know all that before they can be saved?
A lost person does not fully grasp any of this.Those who have NEVER believed are the ones who will be condemned.
John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
Saving faith is believing in the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
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