Does Colossians 2:16 refer to weekly Sabbaths?

[BobRyan]

No. Paul jumped all over Peter for living like a gentile

His argument was not that Peter was "taking God's name in vain and breaking the Sabbath like a gentile". Paul's argument was that Peter was "eating with the gentiles". Context matters... details matter.

In Acts 10 Peter said it was against Jewish made-up-man-made law for a Jew to eat with gentiles.

. Besides that those Apostles you speak about said noting about a requirement to keep the Sabbath

Or a requirement to not take God's name in vain
or a requirement to Love God with all their heart,
or a requirement to honor parents.
True - - none of that mentioned.

What is your point?

 

[Soyeong]

I've no idea why you're projecting on me I think Paul is promoting sin except you're really trying to protect your law keeping requirement.

The existence of sin requires there to be a standard of what is and is not sin, and this standard is God's Law. In Romans 3:20, the Law was given in order to make us conscious of sin, in Romans 7:7, we wouldn't even know what sin was if it weren't for the Law, in 1 John 3:4, sin is defined as the transgression of God's Law, and when Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand, the Law is how his audience knew what sin was. So to interpret Paul as speaking against obeying God's Law is to promote sin, and if your interpretation of Paul is correct, then he also promoted sin, and we should therefore disregard what he said in favor of obeying God instead, but the reality is that Paul was a servant of God who never spoke against anyone obeying any of His laws, so there is no need for it to come down to that.

Paul is promoting neither concept of keeping or not keeping holy days. It plainly says -

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

It says in respect to/of meaning about. It doesn't say anything about the custom of which day if any or how it's kept.

The Colossians were being judged because they were keeping God's holy days and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man judge them and keep them from obeying God. So it is ironic that people use his words as justification for disobeying God.

The problem you have is a failure to recognize and accept Christians have a new and different covenant and the carrying over parts of the previous covenant you think are required for salvation in the new covenant. I can't do anything with your unbelief and rejection of the new covenant. That's your choice.

I agree that we are under a new and different covenant, but the Bible does not describe the difference as being in regard to the content of God's eternal Law, but rather it describes the New Covenant as being one where God puts His Law in our minds and writes it on our hearts. The one and only way that there has ever been to become saved is by grace through faith, and this was just as true in the OT as the in the NT. In Hebrews 11:7, Noah was listed as an example of faith and in Genesis 6:8-9, it says that he found grace in the eyes of God and that he was a righteous man, so he was saved by grace through faith in the same way as everyone else. In Romans 3:21-22, the Law and the Prophets testify that the righteousness of God comes through faith in Christ for all who believe, so again, this has always been the way to become righteous.

Then I have to deal with your implication Paul is a false teacher. You simply don't believe Paul was inspired by God to write what he did. God chose Paul to do as he did according to Acts 9 where Ananias got in an argument with God over the issue. God told Ananias -

The problem is that you are confusing my rejection of your interpretation of the Bible as rejecting the Bible. I think that Paul was a true teacher who was inspired by God. It is the implication of your interpretation of Paul that makes him how to be a false teacher, which is one of the reasons why I reject your interpretation.

You illegitimately place Moses over Paul. Paul is providing details about the New Covenant. Yes that's different and contrary to the previous covenant just like it was promised. NTL it's from the same God Moses spoke to.

In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, God told Moses everything to write down without departing from it either to the right or to the left, so it all came from God, which means that you are illegitatemly placing your interpretation Paul over God. In Acts 17:11, the Bereans were praised because they diligently tested everything that Paul against OT Scripture to see if what he said was true, so you understand Paul differently than the people who walked and talked with him. The NT authors quoted or alluded to the OT thousands of times in order to show that it supported what he was saying and to show that he hadn't departed from it either to the right or to the left, so they certainly saw the OT as still being authoritative.

You have to deal with a false doctrine that God never changes. While it's true God never changes, He changed the rules as He intended before creating the earth. Reading the Bible one easily sees progression - line upon line or precept upon precept. Isa 28:10 You can argue with God about His program all you want.

If God were to make another covenant where it was now in accordance with his righteousness to commit adultery and sinful to help the poor, then God's righteousness would not be eternal, so if God's righteousness is eternal and unchanging, the same goes with His instructions for how to act in accordance with His righteousness.

You can't convince me to disregard Paul's writings. Christians call them Scripture - Holy Writ. Religious people reject anything they don't like and make up their own rules.

If your interpretation of Paul is correct, then according to God you should disregard Paul's writings. However, your interpretation of Paul is not correct, so I do not think that you should disregard Paul's writings, but rather you should disregard your interpretation of his writings.

Rom 3:31 doesn't say we're to live by the law

If we have faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live, then we will follow His instructions, and in this way our faith upholds God's Law. However, your faith does not uphold God's Law.

 

[Soyeong]

Rom 3:31 doesn't say we're to live by the law, when 7:6 says we're now delivered from the law or that we're dead to the law in Rom 6.

In Romans 7:12-25, Paul said that God’s Law is holy, righteous, and good (7:12), that it was the good he wanted to do (13-20), that he delighted in obeying it (7:22), and that he served it with his mind (7:25), but contrasted that with the law of sin, which held him captive (7:23), which caused him not to do the good that he wanted to do (7:13-20), and which he served with his flesh (7:25). So throughout Romans 5-8, it is important to correctly identify which of the two laws he was speaking about, otherwise we end up with a convoluted mess.

In 7:7, Paul said that God’s Law was not sinful, but was given to reveal what sin is, and when our sin is revealed, then that leads us to repent and causes sin to decrease. However, in 7:5, Paul spoke about a law that stirs up sinful passions to bear fruit unto death, which causes sin to increase, so the law of sin is the opposite of the Law of God, and these two verses can’t both be referring to the same law. Likewise, in it would make no sense to think that 7:22 and 7:5 are speaking about the same law that that Paul delighted in stirring up sinful passions to bear fruit unto death or that Paul delighted in a law that held him captive in 7:6. Conversely, in 7:23, Paul said that the law of sin held him captive and 7:6 says that we have been delivered from a law that held up captive, so 7:6 perfectly matches Paul’s description of the law of sin.

In Romans 5:20, Paul spoke about a law that came about to cause sin to increase, in Romans 6:14, the law we are not under is one where sin had dominion over us, in 1 Corinthians 15:56, the power of sin is the law, and in Galatians 5:16-18, the desires of the flesh cause us not to do the good that we want to do, so all of these verses match Paul's description of the law of sin and are describing a law that is sinful, which therefore can't be referring to the Law of God that is not sinful in Romans 7:7. In Romans 7:12-13, Paul said that God’s Law was good and that he did not blame what was good for bringing death to him, so we should not interpret Romans 7 as Paul speaking against God's Law.

 

[ace of hearts]

His argument was not that Peter was "taking God's name in vain and breaking the Sabbath like a gentile" is argument was that Peter was eating with the gentiles. Context matters... details matter.

In Acts 10 Peter said it was against Jewish made-up-man-made law for a Jew to eat with gentiles.

Your comment has nothing to do with what I said.

Or a requirement to not take God's name in vain or a requirement to Love God with all their heart, or a requirement to honor parents. True - - none of that mentioned.

Ditto

What is your point?

Why do you have to ask?

 

[ace of hearts]

The existence of sin requires there to be a standard of what is and is not sin, and this standard is God's Law. In Romans 3:20, the Law was given in order to make us conscious of sin, in Romans 7:7, we wouldn't even know what sin was if it weren't for the Law, in 1 John 3:4, sin is defined as the transgression of God's Law, and when Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand, the Law is how his audience knew what sin was. So to interpret Paul as speaking against obeying God's Law is to promote sin, and if your interpretation of Paul is correct, then he also promoted sin, and we should therefore disregard what he said in favor of obeying God instead, but the reality is that Paul was a servant of God who never spoke against anyone obeying any of His laws, so there is no need for it to come down to that.

Your projection is in error. You approach Col 2 in two different ways, one of which is the passage is a command to keep the sabbath and two not doing so is sin. Paul leaves the matter open by condemning no one nor arguing for any one. It should be clear from the text it's a non issue for Paul. So why does he address the matter? I think Acts 15 is the teller with the rest of Acts recording what Jews did to Paul for preaching the truth.

The Colossians were being judged because they were keeping God's holy days and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man judge them and keep them from obeying God. So it is ironic that people use his words as justification for disobeying God.

If I follow Acts the problem is Jews demanding gentile converts to Christianity reject it and adopt Judaism.

I agree that we are under a new and different covenant, but the Bible does not describe the difference as being in regard to the content of God's eternal Law, but rather it describes the New Covenant as being one where God puts His Law in our minds and writes it on our hearts. The one and only way that there has ever been to become saved is by grace through faith, and this was just as true in the OT as the in the NT. In Hebrews 11:7, Noah was listed as an example of faith and in Genesis 6:8-9, it says that he found grace in the eyes of God and that he was a righteous man, so he was saved by grace through faith in the same way as everyone else. In Romans 3:21-22, the Law and the Prophets testify that the righteousness of God comes through faith in Christ for all who believe, so again, this has always been the way to become righteous.

Only if you reject Jer 31:32. If righteousness comes only by faith and not the law, why is it you demand keeping the law for righteousness. Don't say you don't do that when you demand keeping the covenant law issued to Israel alone. Ex 31:13, 17 prove your issue concerns only Israel instead of the whole world.

The problem is that you are confusing my rejection of your interpretation of the Bible as rejecting the Bible. I think that Paul was a true teacher who was inspired by God. It is the implication of your interpretation of Paul that makes him how to be a false teacher, which is one of the reasons why I reject your interpretation.

Do you accept Luke 16:16 as written? Do you accept Rom 7:6 as written? Do you accept Gal 5 as written? Promotion of law keeping says you don't. So I can't accept your first statement in your above paragraph.

In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, God told Moses everything to write down without departing from it either to the right or to the left, so it all came from God, which means that you are illegitatemly placing your interpretation Paul over God. In Acts 17:11, the Bereans were praised because they diligently tested everything that Paul against OT Scripture to see if what he said was true, so you understand Paul differently than the people who walked and talked with him. The NT authors quoted or alluded to the OT thousands of times in order to show that it supported what he was saying and to show that he hadn't departed from it either to the right or to the left, so they certainly saw the OT as still being authoritative.

How so when Christians have a new and different covenant unlike the covenant given to Israel in the desert after departure from Egypt. See the self defining verse Jer 31:32 concerning verse 31.

If God were to make another covenant where it was now in accordance with his righteousness to commit adultery and sinful to help the poor, then God's righteousness would not be eternal, so if God's righteousness is eternal and unchanging, the same goes with His instructions for how to act in accordance with His righteousness.

You're trying very hard to force the covenant made with Israel on Christians.

If your interpretation of Paul is correct, then according to God you should disregard Paul's writings. However, your interpretation of Paul is not correct, so I do not think that you should disregard Paul's writings, but rather you should disregard your interpretation of his writings.

This isn't my private interpretation of Paul -
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

If we have faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live, then we will follow His instructions, and in this way our faith upholds God's Law. However, your faith does not uphold God's Law.

I suppose You're right so we can throw out this Scripture -

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be

 

[ace of hearts]

In Romans 7:12-25, Paul said that God’s Law is holy, righteous, and good (7:12), that it was the good he wanted to do (13-20), that he delighted in obeying it (7:22), and that he served it with his mind (7:25), but contrasted that with the law of sin, which held him captive (7:23), which caused him not to do the good that he wanted to do (7:13-20), and which he served with his flesh (7:25). So throughout Romans 5-8, it is important to correctly identify which of the two laws he was speaking about, otherwise we end up with a convoluted mess.

That must be why Paul said in the verse you left out -

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Yes Paul is most definitely in love with the law.

In 7:7, Paul said that God’s Law was not sinful, but was given to reveal what sin is, and when our sin is revealed, then that leads us to repent and causes sin to decrease. However, in 7:5, Paul spoke about a law that stirs up sinful passions to bear fruit unto death, which causes sin to increase, so the law of sin is the opposite of the Law of God, and these two verses can’t both be referring to the same law. Likewise, in it would make no sense to think that 7:22 and 7:5 are speaking about the same law that that Paul delighted in stirring up sinful passions to bear fruit unto death or that Paul delighted in a law that held him captive in 7:6.

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Yes Paul is most definitely in love with the law. It mus also be why Paul says "we are now delivered from the law..." Why would Paul say we are delivered from something he loves?

Conversely, in 7:23, Paul said that the law of sin held him captive and 7:6 says that we have been delivered from a law that held up captive, so 7:6 perfectly matches Paul’s description of the law of sin.

Exactly and that's what you don't understand the law is the law of sin and death.

In Romans 5:20, Paul spoke about a law that came about to cause sin to increase, in Romans 6:14, the law we are not under is one where sin had dominion over us, in 1 Corinthians 15:56, the power of sin is the law, and in Galatians 5:16-18, the desires of the flesh cause us not to do the good that we want to do, so all of these verses match Paul's description of the law of sin and are describing a law that is sinful, which therefore can't be referring to the Law of God that is not sinful in Romans 7:7. In Romans 7:12-13, Paul said that God’s Law was good and that he did not blame what was good for bringing death to him, so we should not interpret Romans 7 as Paul speaking against God's Law.

Paul reveals a purpose of the law with "...sin is not imputed when there is no law." Rom 5:13

Paul reveals another purpose of the law with -

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Just 2 verses later Paul says the law is on the unemployment list being unemployed.

 

[BobRyan]

No. Paul jumped all over Peter for living like a gentile

His argument was not that Peter was "taking God's name in vain and breaking the Sabbath like a gentile". Paul's argument was that Peter was "eating with the gentiles". Context matters... details matter.

In Acts 10 Peter said it was against Jewish made-up-man-made law for a Jew to eat with gentiles.

. Besides that those Apostles you speak about said noting about a requirement to keep the Sabbath

Or a requirement to not take God's name in vain
or a requirement to Love God with all their heart,
or a requirement to honor parents.
True - - none of that mentioned.

What is your point?

Your comment has nothing to do with what I said.DittoWhy do you have to ask?

It refutes your point.

 

[ace of hearts]

His argument was not that Peter was "taking God's name in vain and breaking the Sabbath like a gentile". Paul's argument was that Peter was "eating with the gentiles". Context matters... details matter.

In Acts 10 Peter said it was against Jewish made-up-man-made law for a Jew to eat with gentiles.



Or a requirement to not take God's name in vain
or a requirement to Love God with all their heart,
or a requirement to honor parents.
True - - none of that mentioned.

What is your point?



It refutes your point.

Suppose you show me where.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes Paul is most definitely in love with the law.
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Yes Paul is most definitely in love with the law. .

Rom 7 - Law is holy just and good.
Rom 3:31 "we establish the LAW"
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" where those commands are the TNE in which "the 5th commandment is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2
Rom 8:4-10 for it is the wicked who "do not submit the law of God neither indeed CAN they"

1 John 5:2-3 this "is the love of God that we keep His commandments"

you appear to want to "spin" that into "he was caught honoring his father and mother" or "he was caught not taking God's name in vain as if the Ten Commandments mattered"

 

[BobRyan]

Suppose you show me where.

Where "What"?? where Acts 10 is or where Galatians 2 is? what exactly are you asking?

Gal 2
11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles;

 

[ace of hearts]

Rom 7 - Law is holy just and good.
Rom 3:31 "we establish the LAW"
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" where those commands are the TNE in which "the 5th commandment is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2
Rom 8:4-10 for it is the wicked who "do not submit the law of God neither indeed CAN they"

Yes and Paul says we are now delivered from the law... Rom 7:6a

Must be why Paul also says -

Gal 5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

1 John 5:2-3 this "is the love of God that we keep His commandments"

Which is -

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

 

[ace of hearts]

Where "What"?? where Acts 10 is or where Galatians 2 is? what exactly are you asking?

Gal 2
11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles;

Why do you think my mention of the contents of verse 14 means only eating with Gentiles?

12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Now I ask you why you try to compel us to live like Jews?

 

[BobRyan]

Yes Paul is most definitely in love with the law.
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Yes Paul is most definitely in love with the law. .

Rom 7 - Law is holy just and good.
Rom 3:31 "we establish the LAW"
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" where those commands are the TNE in which "the 5th commandment is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2
Rom 8:4-10 for it is the wicked who "do not submit the law of God neither indeed CAN they"

1 John 5:2-3 this "is the love of God that we keep His commandments"

you appear to want to "spin" that into "he was caught honoring his father and mother" or "he was caught not taking God's name in vain as if the Ten Commandments mattered"

Suppose you show me where.

Where "What"?? where Acts 10 is or where Galatians 2 is? what exactly are you asking?

Gal 2
11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles;

Why do you think my mention of the contents of verse 14 means only eating with Gentiles?

That is what the text says.

Gal 2
11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles;

you appear to want to "spin" that into "he was caught honoring his father and mother" or "he was caught not taking God's name in vain as if the Ten Commandments mattered" -- as if all of God's commandments were tossed out the window just by calling Peter on the carpet about the matter of eating with Gentiles.

That is kind of odd.

 

[BobRyan]

No it's clearly the 7th day keepers raising the issue. See Acts 15.

As already pointed out - it is the seventh-day keepers of Acts 15 to whom they bring the problem and ask for a solution - and get a solution.

Notice that James is the same one that has "people" that intimidate Peter into no longer "eating with the gentiles". So then "yep" -- Sabbath keeping for sure.

Beyond that little nit -- the basic details of ALL TEN commandments as the moral law of God binding on all mankind since the garden of Eden and do so still to this very day - a Bible detail so obvious that both sides of this discussion agree.

=====================

========================

Westminster Confession of Faith

Westminster Confession of Faith

Chapter XIX
Of the Law of God
I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.[1]

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in Ten Commandments, and written in two tables:[2] the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.[3]

III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;[4] and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties.[5] All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.[6]

IV. To them also, as a body politic, he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.[7]

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;[8] and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it.[9] Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.[10]

VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned;[11] yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly;[12] discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives;[13] so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin,[14] together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of his obedience.[15] It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin:[16] and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law.[17] The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof:[18] although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works.[19] So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace.[20]

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it;[21] the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.[22]

==================================== all TEN


The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

Section 19

19. The Law of God

1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.
   
   
2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the Ten Commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
   
   
3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.
   
   
   
4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.
   
   
   
5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.
   
   
   
6. Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.
   
   
   
7. The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

=================================


Notice the "details" in the "Baptist Confession of Faith"

1. TEN Commandments included in the LAW of God given to mankind in Eden.
2. SAME law given at Sinai as the MORAL Law of God.
3. That law binds all mankind after the cross and before it.
4. It is perfectly consistent with grace and therefore the Gospel
5. Laws OTHER than the TEN commandments were given to Israel and those other laws included the ceremonial laws - which are no longer in place after the cross.

The Westminster Confession of Faith - section 19 makes the SAME 5 points.

====================
The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

===================



They all confess that ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments were applicable to all mankind in Eden.
D.L. Moody is very explicit on the Sabbath Commandment in Eden.

==================== D.L. Moody on the Sabbath Commandment

The Fourth Commandment

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.


THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness.
from: THE TEN COMMANDMENTS text by D. L. Moody

Now I ask you why you try to compel us to live like Jews?

those guys above are not "all Jews" as you seem to suppose and even they can admit to the obvious Bible details about God's Ten Commandments. We can all see that.

 

[ace of hearts]

As already pointed out - it is the seventh-day keepers of Acts 15 to whom they bring the problem and ask for a solution - and get a solution.

No it's the 7th day sabbath keepers bringing the problem which is taken to a council in Jerusalem.

Notice that James is the same one that has "people" that intimidate Peter into no longer "eating with the gentiles". So then "yep" -- Sabbath keeping for sure.

The issue is living like gentiles and yes the emotional laden Peter is easily swayed to placate law keepers largely by fear. You imply there was only one issue and that is eating. I don't know why you require every detail to be mentioned. The general statement "living like a gentile" covers all the omitted details.

Beyond that little nit -- the basic details of ALL TEN commandments as the moral law of God binding on all mankind since the garden of Eden and do so still to this very day - a Bible detail so obvious that both sides of this discussion agree.

Hate to break it to you but the famous 10 didn't exist in the Garden -

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Don't need the rest of your off topic post.

 

[ace of hearts]

THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness.
from: THE TEN COMMANDMENTS text by D. L. Moody



those guys above are not "all Jews" as you seem to suppose and even they can admit to the obvious Bible details about God's Ten Commandments. We can all see that.

Oh I see you included this from DL Moody. I asked you before if you've had a formal debate with some one here at CF, to which I got a general denial. So I'm going to that formal debate and prove evidence that DL Moody didn't keep the 7th day sabbath as you intend us to believe.


One should read Weighed and Wanting by D L Moody to see what he is calling the sabbath starting at page 18. It can be found here - Weighed and Wanting by Dwight L. Moody - Free eBook

The material already cited is from The Ten Commandments by DL Moody on the Fundamental Baptist Institute site. Please read the whole section. We find this in the section for the 4th commandment -

A man ought to turn aside from his ordinary employment one day in seven. There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath. Saturday is my day of rest, because I generally preach on Sunday, and I look forward to it as a boy does to a holiday. God knows what we need.

D L Moody is not presenting Saturday as the sabbath for the Christian. He clearly calls Sunday the sabbath. He does go on and try and apply at least some sabbath regulations to Sunday as principles to live by. The point is D L Moody is not referring to the 7th day sabbath.

The above is taken from this post -

Sabbath for Christians; Obligation or Not?

I think people will find this an interesting debate. Maybe people would find the poster's many other posts very interesting. There are a few thousand of them in thew old threads.

 

[BobRyan]

As already pointed out - it is the seventh-day keepers of Acts 15 to whom they bring the problem and ask for a solution - and get a solution.

Notice that James is the same one that has "people" that intimidate Peter into no longer "eating with the gentiles". So then "yep" -- Sabbath keeping for sure.

Beyond that little nit -- the basic details of ALL TEN commandments as the moral law of God binding on all mankind since the garden of Eden and do so still to this very day - a Bible detail so obvious that both sides of this discussion agree.

=====================

========================

Westminster Confession of Faith

Westminster Confession of Faith

Chapter XIX
Of the Law of God
I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.[1]

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in Ten Commandments, and written in two tables:[2] the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.[3]

III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;[4] and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties.[5] All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.[6]

IV. To them also, as a body politic, he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.[7]

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;[8] and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it.[9] Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.[10]

VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned;[11] yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly;[12] discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives;[13] so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin,[14] together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of his obedience.[15] It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin:[16] and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law.[17] The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof:[18] although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works.[19] So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace.[20]

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it;[21] the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.[22]

==================================== all TEN


The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

Section 19

19. The Law of God

1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.
   
   
2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the Ten Commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
   
   
3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.
   
   
   
4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.
   
   
   
5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.
   
   
   
6. Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.
   
   
   
7. The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

=================================


Notice the "details" in the "Baptist Confession of Faith"

1. TEN Commandments included in the LAW of God given to mankind in Eden.
2. SAME law given at Sinai as the MORAL Law of God.
3. That law binds all mankind after the cross and before it.
4. It is perfectly consistent with grace and therefore the Gospel
5. Laws OTHER than the TEN commandments were given to Israel and those other laws included the ceremonial laws - which are no longer in place after the cross.

The Westminster Confession of Faith - section 19 makes the SAME 5 points.

====================
The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

===================



They all confess that ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments were applicable to all mankind in Eden.
D.L. Moody is very explicit on the Sabbath Commandment in Eden.

==================== D.L. Moody on the Sabbath Commandment

The Fourth Commandment

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.


THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness.
from: THE TEN COMMANDMENTS text by D. L. Moody



those guys above are not "all Jews" as you seem to suppose and even they can admit to the obvious Bible details about God's Ten Commandments. We can all see that.

Oh I see you included this from DL Moody.

Good observation. I also included section 19 of a few other documents as well ... many of those Sunday groups all came to the same conclusion regarding certain obvious Bible details .... so obvious that both sides of this debate admit to them.

I asked you before if you've had a formal debate with some one here at CF, to which I got a general denial.

I doubt that either of those statements are accurate.

So I'm going to that formal debate and prove evidence that DL Moody didn't keep the 7th day sabbath as you intend us to believe.

You "quote you" a lot when trying to come up with something I have said. Do you not find that just a little "interesting"??

Those who have noticed my signature line on every post -- "get the point". Therefore - the revisionism you are attempting can't even get off the ground.


=====================================
I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

 

[ace of hearts]

Good observation. I also included section 19 of a few other documents as well ... many of those Sunday groups all came to the same conclusion regarding certain obvious Bible details .... so obvious that both sides of this debate admit to them.

I doubt that either of those statements are accurate.

It appears I've got a better memory than you. I'm not going to search for my post at this time. I may though. It would be much easier if you admitted to the facts contained on CF.

You "quote you" a lot when trying to come up with something I have said. Do you not find that just a little "interesting"??That's not a quote of mine. So it's not me quoting me. How many times do I need to c&p from that debate? You really need a link to your post in that debate?

Those who have noticed my signature line on every post -- "get the point". Therefore - the revisionism you are attempting can't even get off the ground.

Those with knowledge know full well your signature line is misrepresenting others.

 

[BobRyan]

... the basic details of ALL TEN commandments as the moral law of God binding on all mankind since the garden of Eden and do so still to this very day - a Bible detail so obvious that both sides of this discussion agree.

=====================


Westminster Confession of Faith

Westminster Confession of Faith

Chapter XIX
Of the Law of God
I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.[1]

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in Ten Commandments, and written in two tables:[2] the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.[3]

III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;[4] and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties.[5] All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.[6]

IV. To them also, as a body politic, he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.[7]

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;[8] and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it.[9] Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.[10]

VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned;[11] yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly;[12] discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives;[13] so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin,[14] together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of his obedience.[15] It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin:[16] and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law.[17] The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof:[18] although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works.[19] So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace.[20]

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it;[21] the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.[22]

==================================== all TEN


The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

Section 19

19. The Law of God

1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.
   
   
2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the Ten Commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
   
   
3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.
   
   
   
4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.
   
   
   
5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.
   
   
   
6. Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.
   
   
   
7. The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

=================================


Notice the "details" in the "Baptist Confession of Faith"

1. TEN Commandments included in the LAW of God given to mankind in Eden.
2. SAME law given at Sinai as the MORAL Law of God.
3. That law binds all mankind after the cross and before it.
4. It is perfectly consistent with grace and therefore the Gospel
5. Laws OTHER than the TEN commandments were given to Israel and those other laws included the ceremonial laws - which are no longer in place after the cross.

The Westminster Confession of Faith - section 19 makes the SAME 5 points.

====================
The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

===================



They all confess that ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments were applicable to all mankind in Eden.
D.L. Moody is very explicit on the Sabbath Commandment in Eden.

==================== D.L. Moody on the Sabbath Commandment

The Fourth Commandment

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.


THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness.
from: THE TEN COMMANDMENTS text by D. L. Moody



those guys above are not "all Jews" as you seem to suppose and even they can admit to the obvious Bible details about God's Ten Commandments. We can all see that.

Oh I see you included this from DL Moody.

Good observation. I also included section 19 of a few other documents as well ... many of those Sunday groups all came to the same conclusion regarding certain obvious Bible details .... so obvious that both sides of this debate admit to them.

I asked you before if you've had a formal debate with some one here at CF, to which I got a general denial.

I doubt that either of those statements are accurate.

So I'm going to that formal debate and prove evidence that DL Moody didn't keep the 7th day sabbath as you intend us to believe.

You "quote you" a lot when trying to come up with something I have said. Do you not find that just a little "interesting"??

Those who have noticed my signature line on every post -- "get the point". Therefore - the revisionism you are attempting can't even get off the ground.


=====================================
I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

It appears I've got a better memory than you.

hint: Try trying to "remember" my signature line that I quote on every post... that would be a good start for noticing that I keep calling Moody a "Sunday source".

I'm not going to search for my post at this time.

That is wise - since I don't think you have a way out on that one.

. It would be much easier if you admitted to the facts contained on CF.

your false accusations are soooo easy to make and the beauty of them is that they require no evidence at all. (in fact they work "best" that way).

Meanwhile I put on every post - that Moody is a "Sunday source" and here once again we have Moody's own words .. in yet another post not just the BCoF and the WCoF

 

[ace of hearts]

D.L. Moody is very explicit on the Sabbath Commandment in Eden.

==================== D.L. Moody on the Sabbath Commandment

The Fourth Commandment

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.


THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness.
from: THE TEN COMMANDMENTS text by D. L. Moody



those guys above are not "all Jews" as you seem to suppose and even they can admit to the obvious Bible details about God's Ten Commandments. We can all see that.




Good observation. I also included section 19 of a few other documents as well ... many of those Sunday groups all came to the same conclusion regarding certain obvious Bible details .... so obvious that both sides of this debate admit to them.




I doubt that either of those statements are accurate.



You "quote you" a lot when trying to come up with something I have said. Do you not find that just a little "interesting"??

Those who have noticed my signature line on every post -- "get the point". Therefore - the revisionism you are attempting can't even get off the ground.


=====================================
I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.


hint: Try trying to "remember" my signature line that I quote on every post... that would be a good start for noticing that I keep calling Moody a "Sunday source".



That is wise - since I don't think you have a way out on that one.



your false accusations are soooo easy to make and the beauty of them is that they require no evidence at all. (in fact they work "best" that way).

Meanwhile I put on every post - that Moody is a "Sunday source" and here once again we have Moody's own words .. in yet another post not just the BCoF and the WCoF

Yes we see your spam.

Yes DL Moody is very explicit. Read the following noting the bolded -

One should read Weighed and Wanting by D L Moody to see what he is calling the sabbath starting at page 18. It can be found here - Weighed and Wanting by Dwight L. Moody - Free eBook

The material already cited is from The Ten Commandments by DL Moody on the Fundamental Baptist Institute site. Please read the whole section. We find this in the section for the 4th commandment -

A man ought to turn aside from his ordinary employment one day in seven. There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath. Saturday is my day of rest, because I generally preach on Sunday, and I look forward to it as a boy does to a holiday. God knows what we need.

D L Moody is not presenting Saturday as the sabbath for the Christian. He clearly calls Sunday the sabbath. He does go on and try and apply at least some sabbath regulations to Sunday as principles to live by. The point is D L Moody is not referring to the 7th day sabbath.

The above is taken from this post -

Sabbath for Christians; Obligation or Not?